I feel like it's so obvious who will and WONT become an idol, why do companies lead trainees on?

that's the game that these trainees have to play. Companies need to lead trainees on so that they can see your talent and especially your wow factor and marketability, but it's a rough game, trainees know what their getting into, of course its wrong but don't expect to just debut because your a good singer, rapper, or dancer. You need that wow factor, and a loooot of trainees don't have that. That's why the professionals can scout idols like Hyunjin and now he'll debut because hyunjin has that spark, you can just identify who is interesting from the rest easily on shows like girls planet 999 and stray kid's debut show.

so other companies cant debut them

well everyone wants to be the next BTS/EXO/Twice/BP no?

isn't that the same for athletes that train and pay money to be the next MJ/LBJ/Roger Federer etc???

people want to achieve their goals and will try to...

companies take on trainees that they think will have what it takes...sometimes it works out sometimes it doesn't

Quote from zixzix

So I got into kpop literally a year ago now, and I started with stray kids who randomly came on my spotify, then I watched their survival show, which traumatised me cos I had no idea it was that hard lmao and currently Im watching girls planet 999 and I just feel its so obvious just from initial performances who definitely doesn't have what it takes to be an idol???? Like some people are too boring to watch, others have charisma, why take on the clearly boring ones?? Some of the girls planet contestants have absolutely ZERO sauce, they'll never debut and I can say it confidently lmao I just dont get esp when korea have their shitty beauty standards, a lot of people can be removed from the equation just based on looks lmao

I feel like if I can see it, why cant entertainment companies see it?? Why do they push trainees to keep going and lose their childhoods, and watch their friends debut (a girl on girls planet was training with ITZY and even appeared on the stray kids survival show with itzy, now she says when she sees them she feels envy, I probs would feel like that too like a failure and that sucks) - but she's still chasing her dream, only bc she's obvs put soooo many years into it and was so close yet so far?? Why do companies do this shit, when they could just take who has potential or the "visuals" that they've scouted that they wanna teach and dedicate the time on them?

Literally 2 of the 5 members of ITZY were scouted lmao, Hyunjin from stray kids was scouted, so why do they take on extra people when they already can tell who they'll debut? Jin and Tae were also scouted, likeeeee if purely visual decisions can be made so easily and they decide they'll just train them to perfection, then they can clearly see who they want to debut from talent too?? it was clear on the stray kids survival show that JYP especially liked Yeji and Chaeryoung, who've debuted now, and ontop of that Ryujin and Yuna were scouted, they were sooooo obvious, so why do they waste the others time????

don't mean to be mean but there are a lot of debuted idols I feel are not fit to be idols in the sense they are boring. usually too young. sad

Because even scouted idols can encounter problems which may cause them to leave halfway through training. Not every person is fit for the idol lifestyle. Sometimes they may encounter family or health issues. Sometimes they have bad or weak characters. And sometimes, talented people are late bloomers or aren't obviously shining at first. Plus, there are always a few hard workers who can eventually grow to outshine the rest because of the dedication they put in, rather than the natural talent they have.

JYP himself is one of those that became successful because of hard work and discipline, rather than visuals or natural talent. His voice sucked at debut, he was ugly, he was relatively older... the only thing he had going for him was that he could write songs and had some skill at dancing. Everything else was the result of hard work, self-discipline, and relentless training and learning. Which is why he emphasizes the same in his idols, while also looking for that special something that hard work alone can't replicate.

EDIT: Also, keep in mind that when you are watching idol debut survival shows - particularly ones produced by Mnet - that you are watching an edited broadcast. You are seeing what the producers WANT you to see, the trainees they want you to focus on, not necessarily all the stories of all the trainees.

Yeah it’s messed up. For companies to lead them on then to throw them away after is straight up depression right there.

You even had the JYP trainee girls being publicized for the first time on national tv on Stray Kids first episode and the girls thinking and promising each other that they’ll debut if they win against team 1 the boys team. Then shoe horning Ryujin and Sunmin in mixnine. Like it’s sad to watch.

There should honestly be a law for this.

Because competition always good to honing their skills

They need competition to not become complacent

This is now a very old list but it does illustrate that it's not a simple process of trying to debut every talent that a company comes across

The truth is, just because you have the qualities to debut as an Idol doesn't mean that the company will debut you....

6Mix was a pre-debut group from JYPE that had 6 members, they had failed to debut on a number of occassions due to members leaving, which is a common thing for companies because timing is everything.

In the end, JYPE scrapped the group and put the remaining 5 members into Sixteen, that decision changed JYPE as they would revamp the company structure, effectively turning into a company that produced albums sales that smashed their own records before TWICE's debut.

Also, a company has legally no right to force any trainee to stay even if they can bind them through a Contract as in Somi's case where JYPE decided to let her out of it. Same for SME with Lia whom debut for Itzy.

Anyway, JYPE is an exception among Kpop companies as tend to recruit the person rather than just the talent, so a large number of JYPE Ex-Trainees debut due to their natural personality to work for it.

I don"t watch Girl Planet 999 but in the Produce seasons, some trainees had a glow-up throughout the show. Someone like Sohee in the first season was not meant to debut, yet she made it because Korean people feel sympathy for her because she was trained as an actress and improved a lot during the show.

She was not particularly charismatic and there were trainees who suited their visual standards way better than her.

Some idols are also not very charismatic or fit beauty standards but they debuted because their talent was needed in a group. Sometimes it happens even in the Kpop industry.

Besides, I am not sure that Tae was recruited based on his visuals. Korean people were cruel to him when BTS were rookies because of his looks.

It's messed up but they keep them as a plan b. If their chosen ones messed up for any reason. Because they can't train few people for years and risk everything with them if they don't debut.

this is honestly a weird take. kpop groups need balance. yeah kpop companies pick some people for their visuals, but they also have to pick people that can actually carry the group with their talent. then they need people who have personality. it isnt often you find one person with all 3 of these things among the 100s of trainees that are auditioning monthly. some people have one and are lacking the other two. some people have two but are lacking the other one. and when you put them all in a group together, they balance each other out.

it is true that you can figure out early on who will and wont thrive as an idol in multiple regards. but it isnt true that just bc someone isn't that pretty or just bc they dont have a lot of energy on stage they wont be popular. kpop is all about marketability and fantasy. if you can sell yourself to your audience, regardless of anything else, people will be your fan. and that is what kpop companies are banking on.

i don't think its right to say someone needs to tell people to give up on their dream bc they dont fit the "beauty standard"? even if they dont there are still people that will like their visual out there and people who will like them as people. being an idol is like any other profession. if you work hard enough, even if you arent a natural, you can still get that promotion. there are some big names in the kpop industry that looked exactly like these girls planet girls when they were trainees. and thats a fact

Some agencies don't have what it takes to attract beautiful & talented trainees. These girls are all from different agencies like in PD 101, right?

Everyone knew Nayeon would debut even from the pre-Sixteen teasers, yes

Quote from zixzix

Yeah so why not train the visuals, and the top of the talented instead of keeping back ups who wont even debut in a diff group? Its just obvious who does and doesn't have stage presence man, its not something to deep or think too much about, you can have talent and 0 personality on stage, so they can go, we all know kpop prefers likability over talent lmao fc they need to have some kind of talent im not saying they shouldn't have talent and visuals are more important, I just mean its obvious to them from what ive seen on shows so no point leading other trainees on, i personally think they keep other people there to create the feeling of competition for the ones they DO want to debut, which is fucked

Idk....like some people only get the motivation to improve and be competitive when they see others, and then they could unlock skills they have. One more thing that is that several parents who are rich would probably pay for a lot of money if their child gets to debut. That is a factor that is quite common, especially since 2015. NGL like someone said sometimes it's more fun to see them grow. When you have a team of all aces sometimes not everyone stands out because they can be kinda boring.

Taehyung wasn't recruited because of his visual. He went to an audition with a friend and the staff asked him to audition too.

Quote from zixzix

Yeah so why not train the visuals, and the top of the talented instead of keeping back ups who wont even debut in a diff group? Its just obvious who does and doesn't have stage presence man, its not something to deep or think too much about, you can have talent and 0 personality on stage, so they can go, we all know kpop prefers likability over talent lmao fc they need to have some kind of talent im not saying they shouldn't have talent and visuals are more important, I just mean its obvious to them from what ive seen on shows so no point leading other trainees on, i personally think they keep other people there to create the feeling of competition for the ones they DO want to debut, which is fucked

...huh? you realize all the stuff you're talking about is subjective anyway, right? there are tons of idols i think suck but their fans still rave about them lol. like really who tf are you to say someone is being led on and isnt good enough to debut. most of them dont debut bc of bad companies anyway.

Quote from zixzix

"game" ?? These children lives aren't games for them to gamble having a wasted childhood when its already so obvious who companies want to debut lmao. I get having more trainees than needed for the group for potential different concept groups later on, but they take on more than that lmao

Trainees "know" what they're getting into? They're literal kids, who beg for their parents permission to make such a massive decision

Its so obvious who has a "spark", thats why I dont get why they waste certain trainees time lmao, why take them on for years and lead them on for 4/5/6 years to then never debut them?

Companies dont lead anyone on. Do you really think a company will care about "leading" someone on. Not everyone gets to debut, and dont forget, trainees can leave anytime they want. It's tough but companies choose who they want to debut. It is a game, your literally fighting to beat out 30+ other trainees. Nobody is wasting anyone's time, this is a business, companies dont have time to sit and wait. The idol industry is rough, so dont expect to debut.

Quote from zixzix

Yeah but when it comes to kpop, they have such strict criteria they want to hit esp with visuals, its not just talent that they look for compared to athletes which is purely talent... they want that spark and aura, thats why I dont get why they lead sooooo many trainees on when its so obvious who they already want to debut?? a lot of groups are made up of scouted individuals which shows its not really purely talent they look for, thats why I dont get it, its already obvious to them who they want lmao

but there are groups with members that don't fit such visuals

one of the most obvious is hwasa from MMM...she in no way can be called fitting the korean beauty standard but she's talented and an it girl in her own right...

ok so in regards to your point about scouting for visuals that's all after the fact though no?

hindsight is 20/20 and we only hear of idols who've debuted tell of being scouted...it's not every scouted idol debuts lol

i'm sure there are plenty of idols who are scouted but do not debut...

Quote from zixzix

Youre focusing too much on what I said about visuals which is not the point. I just used it as an example lmao, Im saying a lot are scouted just cos of how they look and a lot of scouted members debut, so if they can already see what they want by just seeing them cross the street, then identifying someone who auditioned and their level of talent and debut potential also shouldn't be hard to spot lmao, since they debut people they just found attractive and trained. Ofc those who audition should be even more talented bc they show the initiative to apply and chase their dream instead of being asked to join lmao

Do you know what I mean now???

but scouting is part of the process right... i mean even modelling agencies scout whereas others audition...

but i do understand your point at the end of the day some auditionees debut some don't...some scoutees debut some don't...it then becomes up to the company and or the individual

Quote from dizzcity

Because even scouted idols can encounter problems which may cause them to leave halfway through training. Not every person is fit for the idol lifestyle. Sometimes they may encounter family or health issues. Sometimes they have bad or weak characters. And sometimes, talented people are late bloomers or aren't obviously shining at first. Plus, there are always a few hard workers who can eventually grow to outshine the rest because of the dedication they put in, rather than the natural talent they have.

JYP himself is one of those that became successful because of hard work and discipline, rather than visuals or natural talent. His voice sucked at debut, he was ugly, he was relatively older... the only thing he had going for him was that he could write songs and had some skill at dancing. Everything else was the result of hard work, self-discipline, and relentless training and learning. Which is why he emphasizes the same in his idols, while also looking for that special something that hard work alone can't replicate.

EDIT: Also, keep in mind that when you are watching idol debut survival shows - particularly ones produced by Mnet - that you are watching an edited broadcast. You are seeing what the producers WANT you to see, the trainees they want you to focus on, not necessarily all the stories of all the trainees.

Now that you mention it, I feel bad for always memeing his face

Quote from Armedryu

Now that you mention it, I feel bad for always memeing his face

You know how there are always comments made by JYP-anti's talking about how he fat-shames some trainees (even though he was clearly talking about dance technique and the self-discipline necessary to dance well)? I'd hate to point out the obvious parallel between fat-shaming girls and ugly-shaming JYP (even if it's done in the spirit of good-natured humour), but...

I just haven't commented on it before because I view it as just ignorant behaviour of the young which they will eventually grow out of. Like you have here. Well done, penguin.

I think Twice Tzuyu is a perfect example of how closer assessment of idols are required until the very end.

I didnt think Tzuyu were initially on JYP's mind. At first, she was just one of the two replacements for the leaving members of Sixteen before the show even started. Not given that much screentime during the first few episodes. She eventually ease herself to the show while other clearly more talented contestants crack under pressure when it matters the most.

Quote from Wench

Everyone knew Nayeon would debut even from the pre-Sixteen teasers, yes

For her and probably Dahyun, the show is just a formality

I sort of see your point but i disagree

1) about visuals: I know this wasn't your main point but i'll talk about it first

I don't think this is such a big issue tbh, what one fan considers unattractive can be extremely beautiful/ handsome to others. people have different tastes. i think it's never impossible to find fans who will see your beauty. plus some people have surprising glow ups.

ofc companies will always secure some "safe bets" aka traditional visuals but it doesn't mean others don't stand a chance.

2) skills:

do you think these trainees don't know where they stand skills wise ? they do take monthly evaluations no ? they get feedback, and ranks ..

leading them on would be showering them with praises and deceiving them about their skills, promising them a spot in the debut team. I doubt any company does this so what makes you say these kids are being led on ?

If they are aware that they're lacking and still have hope and motivation to keep going on, who are we to say they can't pursue their dreams ? those kids are betting their future on the line, is it a risky move ? yeah. but it's THEIR dream and THEIR efforts of making the most out of it and avoiding having regrets later for not persisting hard enough.

op, you seem to think that talented people are obvious from the start, while that's true in most cases, it's definitely not the general rule. some people started from nothing and their hardwork got them to unexpected heights. it's not really healthy to have this mentality that you can't achieve anything unless you excel since day 1

3) charisma/ personality:

like visuals, I think it's subjective and can change anyway.

many idols were a little bland at debut but opened up more later and became more entertaining.

and again fans are attracted to different kinds of people, while some prefer charismatic fierce idols, others connect more to reserved ones ...

ofc some people just stand out from the start, but idt it's a requirement in kpop for all group members to be energitic or fierce since the start.

> In general, every trainee was scouted or passed an audition or smtg to be under a company. those who accepted them must have seen something in them. it's up to the trainees to work on their strenghts and flaws. no one is perfect and no one has 0 potential. it's just a matter of who will minimize their flaws and use their potential to the fullest faster than the others imo.

I do think most companies have a general idea on who they're debuting. but I would guess there's usually at least one slot still open imo, so whoever grabs that chance first will get it. it may seem hard and unfair that tons of trainees are fighting for limited spots while the rest is "already obvious" but that's how it is.

also, not really on topic but I don't think the possibility of failure is an issue restricted to the kpop industry. many studies and professions require competitions/ contests and many students actually waste their time preparing for some certain field but never go through.

maybe it's more severe with kpop companies since only a select few get to debut. but i don't think the principle in itself is that different.

Quote from zixzix

Its a game? Someones childhood and life isnt a game man I just feel like they should stop people who they can just tell aren't going to progress well enough before they spend 5 years training only to never debut? Does it take 5 years to figure out if someone is debut potential? I dont think so lmao

I wouldn’t say companies keep trainees they don’t like for 5 years usually they will eliminate them long before that if there not making progress, and like I said, companies don’t care about anyone’s childhood, neither do parents apparently, this is the industry, don’t expect everything to be flowers and rainbows. Nobody has time to accommodate and be nice, people want money not kindness. Those 5 years are the trainees decision, like I said, it’s never guaranteed if you debut, so if you decide to spend 5 years at a company then don’t blame the company when you could have left.

Karina Winter NingNing had their spots secured in aespa the day all 3 of them got recruited for their talents and visuals, honestly the other SM rookies girls were fighting for that last spot and Giselle passing Saturday audition secured her lineup.