People being punished for something they did as a child is odd

    Do you agree? 36

    1. Yes, it is ridiculous. (23) 64%
    2. No, people should be punished for things they did as kids. (6) 17%
    3. Not sure (7) 19%

    Honestly, this idea makes me quite uncomfortable. Of course, if someone did something extreme like murder or rape, then regardless of their age they should be punished severely. But the idea that Soojin is punished for something she did in middle school just seems odd.


    Firstly, we don’t know if she is guilty or not. But even if she is, it strikes me as unhelpful that someone could be punished years later for something they did in middle school. It is especially odd considering the likes of Irene did things as grown adults and were forgiven almost immediately because of apologies that may or not be sincere. Hell, idols have done blackface and faced no consequences. Not that I think careers should end if someone isn’t a nice person, that’s all very 1984, but the logic makes no sense. The rules don’t apply to everyone, this whole thing often hinges on how well liked someone is or isn’t.


    To me, there is zero room for personal growth if people are told that something they do when they were 12 will define them forever. It also makes it clear to me that people don’t actually care about the victims, they just want to se someone fail. The whole idea that someone is problematic and should be cancelled has been taken too far. People should absolutely be held accountable for negative actions, but the gleeful witch hunting is so uncomfortable to witness.


    One of my best friends was a nightmare at Primary school, it was only when we met later that we became close. She had changed so much. I would hate to think she was forever punished because of who she used to be.

  • BlinkNation

    Changed the title of the thread from “People being punished for something they did as a child” to “People being punished for something they did as a child is odd”.
    Quote from dummi

    I got bullied in middle school, I'd say if the bully didn't change in later years then they deserve to be held accountable for their shitty personality. If they do change though I dot see how its fair to ruin their life like that.

    This. People should always be held accountable for things like bullying, which can scar people for life, especially if they don’t change. But the idea of someone forever being punished for something they did as a child, even if they have changed, is just strange.


    There never seems to be consistency either. It’s the same in Hollywood. People get their careers ruined for one tweet but domestic abusers and sex offenders are forgiven completely. It just proves it is people witch hunting those they don’t like, and defending others no matter what.

    For me it depends on the severity and if the person has actually changed


    I said or did some mean things as a child but never bullied someone, people aren't perfect and I can even be mean now sometimes. The problem is the majority of people aren't mean to the extent of being a bully and that shouldn't be normalized. Acting like everyone bullies aka continually harass and hurt people is incorrect. As far as being punished as an adult, up to how far that bullying went. Personally I got bullied in elementary and middle school a bit but wouldn't wish them to be affected by their action now because 1) it wasn't to the point that it affects me today 2) it's been years.


    Also defending extremely bad action because someone was a child is a no for me. Yes, our brains aren't fully developed in our teens and we're still learning but we know hurting people is wrong

  • AllKill VIP
    Quote from BlinkNation

    It is especially odd considering the likes of Irene did things as grown adults and were forgiven almost immediately because of apologies that may or not be sincere.

    so you're comparing the case of Irene , who apologize in person to the person directly and admitted her wrong behaviour and say that she'll learn from her mistake

    to other idols who were accuse of Bullying in their childhood but are now adults and can't admit their wrong behaviour and prefer to deny it, accuse other of lying , and let their agency shield them for at the end we discover they were really bully and these other people never lied


    hmmmm.... let me think , yes i prefer Irene case, at least she's an adult who learn and admit her error

    in contrary of these people you try to make it like victims who surely does things when they are child, but even now that they are adult can't admit their wrong behaviour and can't take responsability for it



    and i'm sorry but being 12 yo doesn't excuse everything, at 12yo you know what you're doing

    my nephew is 10yo and he know that hitting someone , insulting someone etc....is bad since he's 6yo

    i'm sorry but at 12yo you're enough old to know what's bad and good

    and usually when you see that you're the only one doing this , it should be a good hint that what you're doing isn't great


    should we excuse 12Yo who thought that it was a good idea to shoot with a gun or stabbed his friends because he was only 12YO ? NO it's dumb



    yeah people can grow and become more mature

    but that doesn't mean that people even if they are more mature shouldn't take responsabilities for what they did in the past

    and in contrary if these people are really more mature and really gros like you said, then they would be enough mature to admit their wrong behaviour in the past and apologize to their victim in contrary of hiding themselves behind a big agency and accusing victim of lying to save their image

    Nah it makes sense. Middle school and up is not a child and they are old enough to understand their actions. Most kids make it through middle school without the label as bully

  • AllKill VIP
    Quote from th17e

    I said or did some mean things as a child but never bullied someone, people aren't perfect and I can even be mean now sometimes. The problem is the majority of people aren't mean to the extent of being a bully and that shouldn't be normalized. Acting like everyone bullies aka continually harass and hurt people is incorrect.


    exactly

    some people are really trying to normalize bullying among child, because they were young and didn't know what they were doing

    if it was the case every kids would be bullying other kids, it's not the case, proving that the age is a dumb excuse to defend people who were bully

    most of the kids know that bullying is wrong, that's why Bullying isn't something normal

    so i don't understand using this excuses

    Quote from dummi

    I got bullied in middle school, I'd say if the bully didn't change in later years then they deserve to be held accountable for their shitty personality. If they do change though I don't see how its fair to ruin their life like that.

    This! I got bullied a lot in elementary, but that doesn't mean I want to ruin their careers. Who knows, maybe they changed now. All I would like is a private apology but I am not going to dread on it.

    I agree with you, except for the Irene part I know she was wrong and I was disappointed with her, but I think she is okay rn, even the stylist forgive her cmon but anyways, overall yes I agree, sometimes people take fights and scream BULLY but its not true at all bullying requires power dynamics and tons of things we already know and like honestly what even is the point of living if we dont have room for grown ? i hate cancel culture its just a bunch of kids addicted to outrage and feeling superior ugh can this trend just end already

    Quote from dummi

    I made friends with my bully from middle school, Idk why people act like bullies need to die when these are children that literally just need to be taught how to manage their struggles without taking it out on others. Shutting these kids out isn't the answer, and ruining their life later on isn't the answer either.

    I am friends now with this one girl, I wouldn't say she bullied me but she ignored me when I tried to converse with her(she is friends with one of my other friends) in 6th grade. We met at an Easter event this year and she apologized for her behavior 2 years ago.

    You didn’t really make a point though. It’s weird to pick Irene’s case when Irene showed her real personality and behaviour just recently while the bullying allegations were from middle school. Your basically flip-flopping and picking choosing who you want to throw your lashes too lol. Your saying Irene grew through her scandal while the others did not lol.


    Some of the cases we’ve seen had no previous knowledge of what happened nor evidence. It’s basically just words so of course most of the companies would stick beside the idol until further statements come out to help understand the situation better. Like how do you know if Irene didn’t switch up her personality and demeanour for the sake of the scandal? Both of the scandals, all of the idols hid behind their company. The photographer had a leverage on Irene with the tape to why she apologized.


    In my opinion it’s odd to pick sides. Comparing a 10 year old scandal to a 30 year old woman’s recent behaviour. Do you get the point lol?

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    Quote from SooYoung

    exactly

    some people are really trying to normalize bullying among child, because they were young and didn't know what they were doing

    if it was the case every kids would be bullying other kids, it's not the case, proving that the age is a dumb excuse to defend people who were bully

    most of the kids know that bullying is wrong, that's why Bullying isn't something normal

    so i don't understand using this excuses

    No one is excusing bullying. Bullying is always wrong, and children should know not to do it. But we are talking about someone forever being punished for something they did as a child, even though they may have changed.


    You are literally defending an adult bully in your posts so you are actually proving my point about double standards perfectly.

    Quote from Park_Oppa

    You didn’t really make a point though. It’s weird to pick Irene’s case when Irene showed her real personality and behaviour just recently while the bullying allegations were from middle school. Your basically flip-flopping and picking choosing who you want to throw your lashes too lol. Your saying Irene grew through her scandal while the others did not lol.


    Some of the cases we’ve seen had no previous knowledge of what happened nor evidence. It’s basically just words so of course most of the companies would stick beside the idol until further statements come out to help understand the situation better. Like how do you know if Irene didn’t switch up her personality and demeanour for the sake of the scandal? Both of the scandals, all of the idols hid behind their company. The photographer had a leverage on Irene with the tape to why she apologized.


    In my opinion it’s odd to pick sides. Comparing a 10 year old scandal to a 30 year old woman’s recent behaviour. Do you get the point lol?

    Apparently a 12 year old treating someone badly (which hasn't been proved) is worse than a grown woman who is nearly 30 bullying someone and making them cry. Her apology came after being exposed, so who is to say it was genuine anyway?


    People always prove my point about them cancelling someone being dependent on whether they like them or not. It is like Johnny Depp being removed from Fantastic Beasts, whilst Ezra Miller, who choked a female fan, is allowed to stay on. It is never consistent!

    Tbh 12 is plenty old enough to know what you're doing. Maybe I can never answer this properly because I've been bullied at that age, and it makes me angry when people are so in love with their idols they can't wake tf up. What's 'just middle school' to you could be years of going back, of trauma, permanent damage from the inside to someone else. If she had changed, she would've responded properly when the scandal broke out but she didn't.

    I agree. If children or minors commit crimes they are tried and sentenced by the juvenile court in most cases and then their records can be sealed or even expunged. This means nobody will ever know they've committed that crime. If that can happen for any child under the age of 18 then why is an adult getting punished for some sort of bullying that happened when they were 12 years old?

    Sometimes I get confused on what exactly is expected from kids and teenagers in terms of maturity.


    Sometimes the kid is "old enough to understand" what they're doing, sometimes they're not.


    Sometimes their "brains are still developing" and they're still "immature", and suddenly, for whatever reason, they're not and they're punished.


    Also, their personal lives are also taken off the question and I think it's unfair.


    There's a kid who bullied me and my siblings who his parents were borderline criminals and abusive with him. Now as an adult, he's trying to fix his life, but it took years for him to realize how f*cked up was the environment he was living in. And I just wish him the best on his journey and I really want him to become a better person 'cause I know he's trying.


    If someone punished him for the sh*t he has done as a kid (none of them being criminal related stuff), I'd be the first one to defend him. It's just unfair.

    this is a bit misleading because she supposedly was a bully all three years of middle school which in Korea are ages 13-15, so she wasn't a "child." There's a difference between like an 8 year old and a 15 year old, I think 15 years old is certainly old enough to know that bullying is wrong.


    Even then, I'd be inclined to give her a pass, but she's the one who publicly challenged Seo Shin-ae to recount her experience and that more than anything sunk her in the GP's eyes. The vast majority of people who are aware of her in Korea now know her as "Seo Shin-ae's bully." And having a member in your group that is the most famous member of the group (as she currently is) and be known as a bully in today's climate in Korea is just commercial suicide for any girl group besides Blackpink/Twice and obviously just totally sinks all their branding opportunities if Cube left her in the group.


    Anyways, it's not as simple as her just being a bully, but the whole way she (and Cube) conducted themselves during the ensuing fallout. If she just apologized from the start and then went radio silent like Hyunjin (who imo did worse than her) she probably could have gotten away with it like he has.

    Edited once, last by redcurtain: grammar ().

    It's called karma.

    If a 15yo kid bully someone and make someones life a hell then it's payback time for this person.

    Especially in a country like South Korea where bullying in school is even higher and worse than europe/American its a good and important sign to show teenagers that everything will comeback to bite you if you don't have proper clean life.


    And for soljin case where she denied at first and lied to her company and let her pyscho fans attack the victim, I don't think that she changed that much.

    Don't take this personally but I think the bullying to you damaged your mental if you are the first one to defend your bully.

    So it's okay to Bully and destroy someones mental health because the person itself have a hard life? Lmao

  • AllKill VIP

    Accountability is great, but hold them accountable while they’re still kids and while they’re still in their problematic mindset.


    What good does it do to punish them when they’ve already changed? Seems completely unnecessary.


    Unless we’re talking about serious crimes… That is a different situation.

    But the idea that Soojin is punished for something she did in middle school just seems odd.

    Her reaction to the accusations were punishment worthy alone.


    Hell, idols have done blackface and faced no consequences.

    It's SK. What do you want them to do? Bring up blackface during this discussion is weird as hell.

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  • AllKill VIP
    Quote from helixvc

    Don't take this personally but I think the bullying to you damaged your mental if you are the first one to defend your bully.

    So it's okay to Bully and destroy someones mental health because the person itself have a hard life? Lmao

    No one is saying that.


    I’m sure what xoxoshawol means is that the intervention and consequences should have happened when the bully was still a minor so that he can find a better way to express his pain. What good does it do to punish him when he has already grown and changed by himself?


    Rehabilitation is far better than punishment for punishment’s sake. But if some time has passed and the person has already changed on their own, then it’s not even necessary anymore.

    Quote from helixvc

    Don't take this personally but I think the bullying to you damaged your mental if you are the first one to defend your bully.

    So it's okay to Bully and destroy someones mental health because the person itself have a hard life? Lmao

    That's not the case.

    I believe in forgiveness and understanding, these are just my values.


    Also, my parents ended up finding out about the situation later and were quite supportive towards us. It got to the point that we just let him "talk to walls" and later he stopped attacking us.


    He was a victim of his own parents and once I realized it, I started to feel bad for him and just let the bad feelings go.


    Life is better when you forgive people.


    Also, he was not a criminal, so why not giving him a chance to grow as a better person?

    Quote from superyeah

    No one is saying that.


    I’m sure what xoxoshawol means is that the intervention and consequences should have happened when the bully was still a minor so that he can find a better way to express his pain. What good does it do to punish him when he has already grown and changed by himself?


    Rehabilitation is far better than punishment for punishment’s sage. But if some time has passed and the person has already changed on their own, then it’s not even necessary anymore.

    Yeah, that's it.

  • AllKill VIP

    OP is always so salty about Irene lol. Literally whenever the topic of bullying comes up she's always brought up to deflect. She apologized several times and even the stylist has forgiven her. There's no reason why some people who weren't even involved should still be bashing her for this. Y'all always like to bash Knetz and cancel culture then turn around and do the same thing, it's so hypocritical.


    Soojin didn't even issue an apology(cmiiw) :S She kept deflecting, defending, denying, etc, etc, and when the other girl actually said something she went radio silent and then left the group. The way she and her label reacted/handled the whole thing was BAD, that was enough to get her canceled and worsen her image among the GP. There's really no comparison, if she had just apologized from the start and went on a small hiatus like Irene or Hyunjin then she probably would've still been in the group and we wouldn't be having this convo.

    I wonder what would happen if companies just ignored any accusations made on social media. Like, don't even address them. What would be the concrete consequences?

    I ask this question because it looks like, regarding Soojin's case, things might not have gone that bad if Cube hadn't released any kind of statement (Seo Shinae involved herself only after Cube denied the rumors).

    It can also be said about Lia, when the controversy was brought up again because of JYPE's failed attempt at filing a lawsuit against the accuser.


    What if they just ignored it and kept on as usual? Is there such an example in kpop history?

    Quote from Alex_Murphy

    I wonder what would happen if companies just ignored any accusations made on social media. Like, don't even address them. What would be the concrete consequences?

    I ask this question because it looks like, regarding Soojin's case, things might not have gone that bad if Cube hadn't released any kind of statement.

    It can also be said about Lia, when the controversy was brought up again because of JYPE's failed attempt at filing a lawsuit against the accuser.


    What if they just ignored it and keep on as usual? Is there such an example in kpop history?

    SISTAR had bullying/iljin rumors with "photos" (lol not really proof) made about them every other day but they kept ignoring it and went on their way until they all parted ways and Hyorin had her own label.


    STARSHIP just played the "watcha say? nothing k bye" playbook each time a rumor came up.

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    Quote from Pikachu-Senpai

    SISTAR had bullying/iljin rumors with "photos" (lol not really proof) made about them every other day but they kept ignoring it and went on their way until they all parted ways and Hyorin had her own label.


    STARSHIP just played the "watcha say? nothing k bye" playbook each time a rumor came up.

    So, wasn't it better? You can just label these people as haters and move on.

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