4th gen groups that have or have not paid off their debts

If you include every nugu group technically in existence, it's probably like 97 percent unfortunately that will never turn a profit for the label. Stayc just turned profitable in Jan of 2023, which means it took them over 2 years and four comebacks to finally clear their debts and presumably earn real money. And this is STAYC we're talking about, one of the top 8 GGs in Kpop right now.

Ive

LSRFM

New Jeans

NMIXX

Itzy

Idle

Stayc

Aespa

The only ones that are guaranteed to be profitable. Kepler might be profitable, either now or by the end of its run.

I dont think Cherry, Rocket, Everglow, Fromis, Wooah, Weeekly, Billlie, Purple Kiss, Lightsum, and all the newer groups are anywhere near turning a profit.

Most likly ATEEZ because they got a new apartment and look like as if they got rich (I think their old apartment belongs to xikers now)

paid: newjeans, aespa, tomorrow x together, stayc, zerobaseone

Unpaid: enhypen,boy next door, le sserafim, triple s, nmixx, kep1er, p1harmony, xikers,

Not my faves.

And not fifty fifty

Quote from shotarobrosaki

paid: newjeans, aespa, tomorrow x together, stayc, zerobaseone

Unpaid: enhypen,boy next door, le sserafim, triple s, nmixx, kep1er, p1harmony, xikers,

I would think that Le Sserafim is paid or very close to it.

Quote from Daisy_Queen

Now why's Fromis in this

Hmm...they've actually had three straight comebacks where they've sold about 150k - 200k per album which is what you need to pay off debts.

However, they've had 7 other album releases that only sold between 20k-60k and they've been around since Jan 2018, which means they've racked up almost six years of expenses. Loona had higher average album sales plus Chuu but they never made any money for themselves, which makes me think Fromis hasnt either. Unless they got their debts paid off by Hybe after Hybe acquired them.

Quote from Daisy_Queen

Now why's Fromis in this

Quote from BlackpinkHouse

Hmm...they've actually had three straight comebacks where they've sold about 150k - 200k per album which is what you need to pay off debts.

However, they've had 7 other album releases that only sold between 20k-60k and they've been around since Jan 2018, which means they've racked up almost six years of expenses. Loona had higher average album sales plus Chuu but they never made any money for themselves, which makes me think Fromis hasnt either. Unless they got their debts paid off by Hybe after Hybe acquired them.

If this lady was right, Fromis made a lot of money this year.

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Quote from bartkun

wasn't it said that big agencies don't have 'trainee debt' system anymore?

I was also under the impression that the Big 4 don't have trainee debts.

Poor Purple Kiss, noone every remembers them in the 4th gen threads :((

Quote from Daisy_Queen

I really don't understand where you're getting these numbers for profitablity from.

150-200k was never a set number to determine profitability. Fromis was selling 20-80k in the era where it was abnormal for non-Big 3 groups to sell more than 100k and most b3 gg albums weren't selling above 400k. Album sales never really determined profit much either

If Fromis wasn't profitable, Pledis wouldn't have renewed them.

Loona never saw money because Blockberry spent well beyond their means and the members had a contract designed to keep them from seeing profit.

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Yeah i'm just speculating, but i'm speculating based off what we've learned from Loona and Stayc.

Stayc said they didnt earn money until the Teddy Bear comeback earlier this year. Which might mean they were still paying off their debt even with these extremely high album sales for a nugu girl group. Three consecutive album sales over 200k and yet they were still supposedly in the red.

Screenshot 2023-08-30 124223.png

If true, i honestly dont know how Fromis could ever have been profitable for the members.

all the big x groups sine they don't have trainee debt

all the nugu ones haven't

mid tier ones can go either way

Quote from eunchaepower

Interesting, I would think selling a million albums would be enough.

rollin sold 1000 albums and it was enough to pay of their depts.

Quote from selfmate

all the big x groups sine they don't have trainee debt

all the nugu ones haven't

mid tier ones can go either way

But what midtier groups have paid their debts? oh my girl, dc, mamamoo probably.

i wonder how gfriend, momoland, aoa, exid, april, laboum or lovelyz did.

Quote from neigl

But what midtier groups have paid their debts? oh my girl, dc, mamamoo probably.

i wonder how gfriend, momoland, aoa, exid, april, laboum or lovelyz did.

mamamoo paid off their debt in the first year, after 13-14 months, they said doing university festivals did help a lot

Quote from atlan

mamamoo paid off their debt in the first year, after 13-14 months, they said doing university festivals did help a lot

thanks for the info. yeah i can imagine that. mamaoo really did well from debute. i guess its similar to gfriend. could be different for the other groups tho.

Quote from bartkun

wasn't it said that big agencies don't have 'trainee debt' system anymore?

They still have debut debt.

Quote from neigl

But what midtier groups have paid their debts? oh my girl, dc, mamamoo probably.

i wonder how gfriend, momoland, aoa, exid, april, laboum or lovelyz did.

I really don't know much of their sales/profitability so not sure about that...

Quote from neigl

But what midtier groups have paid their debts? oh my girl, dc, mamamoo probably.

i wonder how gfriend, momoland, aoa, exid, april, laboum or lovelyz did.

Mamamoo is not a mid tier group

They were the first 3rd generation girl group to become fully profitable just over a year into their careers.

They were the most requested girl group to perform at university festivals and they were making on average 20k USD per event.

Kim Shinyoung told them to do festivals if they wanted to bring in lots of money and they took the advice to heart, doing as many as 4 in a single day. Nobody was grinding harder back then.

Quote from YamaChwan

Mamamoo is not a mid tier group

They were the first 3rd generation girl group to become fully profitable just over a year into their careers.

They were the most requested girl group to perform at university festivals and they were making on average 20k USD per event.

Kim Shinyoung told them to do festivals if they wanted to bring in lots of money and they took the advice to heart, doing as many as 4 in a single day. Nobody was grinding harder back then.

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i just ment they are from a mid sized company and not from big x. i dont ment to put them down in any way.

Quote from eunchaepower

IDK how many CF'S Le Sserafim have had but it's so wierd to think they haven't earned the equivalent of their debts yet meanwhile New Jean's did in only 3 months.

My poor babies

obviously they have paid it. now they're on the track to pay off soumu debt.

Quote from neigl

i just ment they are from a mid sized company and not from big x. i dont ment to put them down in any way.

Oh! A simple misunderstanding then. RBW was actually a fairly small label back then.

I also, many moons ago, made a video about this exact topic. I cringe at linking some of my older stuff (that typography ), but it is topical and a nice little 3rd gen history lesson!

Quote from neigl

i just ment they are from a mid sized company

It's a mid sized company only right now thanks to Mamamoo, they were small/nugu before

Quote from neigl

But what midtier groups have paid their debts? oh my girl, dc, mamamoo probably.

i wonder how gfriend, momoland, aoa, exid, april, laboum or lovelyz did.

Momoland deffo did, but I think it was likely around 2020. I remember something about one of the members dating a nugu idol member and him living at her place and yeonwoo mentioned she still hadn't gotten paid in 2019 but later on Jooe bought her mom a car.

EXID got paid 3 years post debut (LE basically did their music and Hani is Hani).

April is a definite no and lovelyz and laboum could be either way but judging from the fact that the company disbanded them/indefinite hiatus, its likely they barely broke even.

Quote from tetetete

Ideally it should be the company's debt and not the artist's debt but what better can we expect from k-pop companies

I mean its similar to the west. Artists get an 'advance' to make their album, the amount of advance is based on how much the company thinks they can sell. If they don't make back the advance money on release the masters belong to the company and they work until they pay it back. Kpop companies just give them a better chance at success with vocal lessons etc and make sure they aren't homeless whilst working. Still insane but its not like the west is any better.

Quote from shotarobrosaki

Unpaid: enhypen,boy next door, le sserafim, triple s, nmixx, kep1er, p1harmony, xikers,

ENHYPEN????

Highest Grossing Tour by 4th Gen Acts as of may 2023

1. Straykids, Maniac — 62.8M (42 Shows)

2. ENHYPEN, MANIFESTO — 25.6M (22 Shows)

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Best-selling Groups Debuted in 2020 on Circle Chart (until July 31, 2023)

1. #ENHYPEN — 8,048,274 copies

2. #aespa — 4,766,552 copies

3. #TREASURE — 4,443,372 copies

4. #CRAVITY — 1,363,559 copies

5. #STAYC — 1,321,396 copies