Since Antifragile era, people have called Le sserafim the better Itzy, even Onces stopped supporting Itzy. Many wanted Itzy to have songs like Antifragile, Unforgiven. Itzy used to dominate Youtube views but their views are very low recently compared to Lsrfm. Do you think it’s true that Le sserafim took away Itzy’s popularity and replaced them?
Is the theory that Le sserafim stole Itzy’s spotlight true?
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Nah it was aespa. before aespa's debut, Itzy had the novelty of being the only 4th gen gg from big3, this attracted a lot of interest towards itzy since kpop stans love big brand names but ever since aespa and then debut of many more big3/4 ggs, that novelty of itzy faded away and kpop fans moved on to newer and more shinier ggs.
Itzy had already lost before lesserafim even debuted.
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Le sserafim stole nothing to ITZY or whatever bullshit Kpop fans narrative like to create. The two group focus on performance it's true but apart from that the concept of the two groups is different.
Onces stopped supporting Itzy.
They never supported ITZY. Onces are Twice fandom, they support Twice.
Btw Once fight with Stays & Midzys since day1 so nothing new.
Many wanted Itzy to have songs like Antifragile, Unforgiven.
No Midzy only asked JYP to cut the bullshit with the childish concepts of the latest comebacks.
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I've seen both the fandoms overlap a lot (like many midzys also stan lsfm), so this theory might be true to some extent.
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They do have the same niche, performance based groups with similar sound, so if someone liked ITZY before and don't like their new releases it's more likely to become a lsm stan than a stan of other groups. Niche is very important, the same way I think Stayc live singers image was better before Nmixx debut (since Nmixx aren't only live singers, they have better technique)
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L srafim did something worst. Nos robo el reggaeton a nosotros los latinos.
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Le sserafim stole nothing to ITZY or whatever bullshit Kpop fans narrative like to create. The two group focus on performance it's true but apart from that the concept of the two groups is different.
They never supported ITZY. Onces are Twice fandom, they support Twice.
Btw Once fight with Stays & Midzys since day1 so nothing new.
No Midzy only asked JYP to cut the bullshit with the childish concepts of the latest comebacks.
I totally agree. I still can't understand why Jyp is giving the bside level Sneaker song after quality songs like Mafia and Loco. Cheshire was good song, but the concept was a rerun of Nmixx. It can't even compare to Itzy's concept quality in Dalla Dalla and Wannabe era's. Jyp blocked Itzy's way by releasing a new girl group because the quality in their CB dropped after that. Even though the girls complained about the situation. He ignore the situation.
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No. ITZY started losing attention when MITM dropped. As much as I love that song. Korea was not into, and their Korean attention started dwindling from there. Especially with AESPA, STAYC, and then IVE debuting not long after.
LSFM still has the freshness having just debuted that ITZY has already lost. It makes sense that they are popular and trendy. They are great performers, and they came during a time ITZY had already lost some attention from the GP.
At one point, ITZY was really the only performance based GG. Now, there is LSFM, Kep1er, and NMIXX. The market is more saturated now, and LSFM just so happens to have the biggest piece of the pie.
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not really
itzy already had bad performance before lsfrm was even a thing, it been down since mitm
one thing they got on their side its their members tho, yuna, ryujin and yeji trend from time to time and that considering itzy isnt doing much
one easy way to fix this would be given them more solo schedules, specially yuna, knetz lover her visuals
itzy just need that one good song and dance to bounce back bc they have the solid foundation (intersing group members) to do it
p.s. on that talk I dont even think knetz thing of lsfrm as performers over itzy bc unforgiven dance was very goofy
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No. The group auras def. don’t feel the same either. I can understand that view because they are both choreo/performance-driven groups:
- Thanks to Itzy’s team, the hit quality of their songs fell off and has not recovered yet
- Ssera’s team has maintained the hit quality of their singles up to this point
If Itzy’s team ever gets their song quality back up, they will still shine in a way that sets them apart from other groups.
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They do have the same niche, performance based groups with similar sound, so if someone liked ITZY before and don't like their new releases it's more likely to become a lsm stan than a stan of other groups. Niche is very important, the same way I think Stayc live singers image was better before Nmixx debut (since Nmixx aren't only live singers, they have better technique)
I don't completely agree I do agree they are best girl groups it terms of performance. itzy is more girl crush + also stronger dancers they can do harder choreography if they want and while llfm do girl crush concepts as well ( so I can see why people might see it) but I feel lsfm is more performative/ alluring might be the word . I don't know how to explain it but you can see it if you watch their first music video and some of their performances are more on the sexy side. it's something I can't see itzy doing.
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I don't completely agree I do agree they are best girl groups it terms of performance. itzy is more girl crush + also stronger dancers they can do harder choreography if they want and while llfm do girl crush concepts as well ( so I can see why people might see it) but I feel lsfm is more performative/ alluring might be the word . I don't know how to explain it but you can see it if you watch their first music video and some of their performances are more on the sexy side. it's something I can't see itzy doing.
I understand you. I see lsm as more feminine and itzy as more tomboysh (Ryujin and Yeji as the core members gives this impression), but I do see some similarity between the groups.
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L srafim did something worst. Nos robo el reggaeton a nosotros los latinos.
i'm glad that you pissed
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No, it's not LSRF fault
Itzy were never the monster group in korea that people seem to think and their lost of steam didn't started with Sneakers like most of people keep saying
after Wannabe , itzy just have been losing a lost of hype in korea, with Not shy peaking at #16 on Melon daily chart, MITM peaking at #10 but quickly falling the chart, and then after this it was just worst and worst
actually sneakers is one of their best performing song in korea
the problem with itzy is just that they debuted too soon, the 4th gen landscape was empty
and the moment 4th gen seemed to really kick off, they already lost their hype and already seemed more older than the newer group even if they debuted just 1 or 2 years before them, and people just end up going for the new shiny toys
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Absolutely not.
ITZY was falling off way before LSFM was a thing. AESPA stole their spotlight originally and then they just kept getting buried by new girl groups. Personally for me, ITZY’s music was never good, only dalla dalla. I also remember them being big when there wasn’t any competition within 4th gen. I think that’s why JYP slacked so much with their music, no real competition at the time.
Luckily, LSFM’s deep in competition so any achievements they make comes from people actually tuning into them and not because there’s nothing else to listen to. There are so many good girl groups out, options are endless and when something new comes along, a lot of fans jump ship.
Anyway, the two groups are nothing alike. Both are good performers but that’s it, their vocals and music don’t even have resemblance.
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there's no spotlight to steal. itzy have nothing, no stardom, no name, no life, nothing. They are just flops, lesserafim didn't steal nothing, nobody cared for flop no name no happiness itzy for awhile now, people have been moved on from those no name women who got no job and no livelihood. midzy should be crying everyday knowing that itzy are now no name and are on the struggle bus. All twice's fault. We need to blame twice and stray fads for stealing $$$ from itzy's budget and money. It is the circle of life at every company, somebody has to be the flop. at SM there's wayv, at hybe there's boy next door and enhypen, and at JYP there's itzy. Good riddance to itzy. good riddance. #spreadlove
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It seems that way, but it is only because Itzy's Korean releases are so lackluster. Voltage, their Japanese release is fantastic.
This is a deliberate pivot by JYP, as they are now focusing on the global market. He did the same thing with Twice, and they had a couple of years where they were in the wilderness, but look at them now. #98 Melon peak in Korea, but #1 or #2 group for concerts in the World.
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It seems that way, but it is only because Itzy's Korean releases are so lackluster. Voltage, their Japanese release is fantastic.
This is a deliberate pivot by JYP, as they are now focusing on the global market. He did the same thing with Twice, and they had a couple of years where they were in the wilderness, but look at them now. #98 Melon peak in Korea, but #1 or #2 group for concerts in the World.
The "focusing on the global market" still a good excuse?
Because that is exactly what the rest of big 4 is doing, but somehow they still manage to make their groups popular in korea too.
Itzy "falling off" is just the usual JYPE shit management of not being able to keep the group's popularity past their debut.
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The "focusing on the global market" still a good excuse?
Because that is exactly what the rest of big 4 is doing, but somehow they still manage to make their groups popular in korea too.
Itzy "falling off" is just the usual JYPE shit management of not being able to keep the group's popularity past their debut.
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I like both but
"out with the old and in with the new?"
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It seems that way, but it is only because Itzy's Korean releases are so lackluster. Voltage, their Japanese release is fantastic.
This is a deliberate pivot by JYP, as they are now focusing on the global market. He did the same thing with Twice, and they had a couple of years where they were in the wilderness, but look at them now. #98 Melon peak in Korea, but #1 or #2 group for concerts in the World.
Haven't they been doing worse internationally as well since their global push? Even worse than Aespa, who gets so much slack for their Spotify streams.
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I wouldn't say a group that released Sneakers isn't aiming for success in korean charts. Twice had #1 releases for years, while for ITZY only Dalla Dalla is really a smash hit in Korea (Wannabe and Sneakers are hits, but less hyped ones), so we can't compare them. JYP is having a hard time connecting to the public taste, I do think this is a phase and they gonna learn how to do it again.
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"out with the old and in with the new?"
people refuse to acknowledge thats very much what happens with ggs
they lose their abit of their "trendiness" each time another gg debuts
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I estimate BP and Twice's Korean revenue to be about ~2% of their total revenue, hence if a company was smart, why would they even bother about the Korean market.
It reflects in what Twice and BP do in Korea when they promote there. Jisoo just went on Inkigayo 2 times and Twice just promoted for 1 week.
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The thing with Itzy, for me they are the strongest GG performers out there and I love the girls. But.. their songs have always been a hit and miss and they are like the original noise GG music. Either you like it or hate it.
Le Sserafim has better songs.. they are great performers of course but Itzy better. Both group don’t sound or dance the same..
I don’t think LSFM stole Itzy’s fans, I think JYP stans left them for NMixx. Otherwise how do you explain the huge sales and overall support for NMixx even though they release worst songs than Itzy?
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I estimate BP Korean revenue to be about ~2% of their total revenue
This is a complete falsehood.
Jennie alone makes bank with her korean CFs, so does Jisoo.
It's not even correct on music, but it's even more egregious when the business model for BP is to bank it home with CFs and associated streams with music released intermittently.
They get lots of sales and music streams overseas, yes. But their business model is still reasonably dependent on CFs, IG ads, etc etc - and they make a sizable portion of that in Korea. Let's stop making up nonsense of "2%".
Until album sales skyrocketed, that was the GG business model du jour - GG's would chart well, sell few albums, but make their money with CFS, appearances, etc etc etc. That is a money spinner, even in today's world. And Jennie is a CF queen in Korea.
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This is a complete falsehood.
Jennie alone makes bank with her korean CFs, so does Jisoo.
It's not even correct on music, but it's even more egregious when the business model for BP is to bank it home with CFs and associated streams with music released intermittently.
They get lots of sales and music streams overseas, yes. But their business model is still reasonably dependent on CFs, IG ads, etc etc - and they make a sizable portion of that in Korea. Let's stop making up nonsense of "2%".
Until album sales skyrocketed, that was the GG business model du jour - GG's would chart well, sell few albums, but make their money with CFS, appearances, etc etc etc. That is a money spinner, even in today's world. And Jennie is a CF queen in Korea.
"In just 40 out of 60 shows, the group has already gathered a revenue of $163,832,685. The group's sold-out world tour started in October 2022 and will continue to Q3 2023, with a total of 60 shows." - 7 Highest Grossing K-Pop Concert Tours So Far In 2023: Blackpink Reigns Supreme (ibtimes.com)
It is different for the groups that have really hit big globally. When they are the global level, they get most of their revenue from concert sales. Also in SNSD days merchandising sold at concerts was equal to concert sales. So whatever number you see for ticket sales, double it.
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"In just 40 out of 60 shows, the group has already gathered a revenue of $163,832,685. The group's sold-out world tour started in October 2022 and will continue to Q3 2023, with a total of 60 shows." - 7 Highest Grossing K-Pop Concert Tours So Far In 2023: Blackpink Reigns Supreme (ibtimes.com)
It is different for the groups that have really hit big globally. When they are the global level, they get most of their revenue from concert sales. Also in SNSD days merchandising sold at concerts was equal to concert sales. So whatever number you see for ticket sales, double it.
Jennie, ALONE, made 4 million in 2021, 6 million in 2022 and has similar numbers in 2023. I'm not even including the other members. Even if I just took one year, her CF alone is 6 million, which is about 4% of the revenue from the tour.
I don't think you grasp how much money they've made for years with their CFs. During Covid that was their top money earner.
Yes, touring is plenty of money. And no, you are still very much incorrect, your 2% figure is grossly inaccurate, unless you use an extremely narrow timeframe (I'm talking 6 months tops) (your timeframe was not indicated, so I took that to mean lifetime revenue).
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the problem with itzy is just that they debuted too soon, the 4th gen landscape was empty
and the moment 4th gen seemed to really kick off, they already lost their hype and already seemed more older than the newer group even if they debuted just 1 or 2 years before them, and people just end up going for the new shiny toys
i don't think itzy's debut timing was bad, gidle debuted before them and are still rocking even today, itzy's timing was actually very good since they basically had zero competition to face in 2019 and 2020 from other big4 new ggs and it worked out well for well in that time frame, its just that they didn't managed to keep their momentum, new ggs stole the spotlight and itzy got forgotten.
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i don't think itzy's debut timing was bad, gidle debuted before them and are still rocking even today, itzy's timing was actually very good since they basically had zero competition to face in 2019 and 2020 from other big4 new ggs and it worked out well for well in that time frame, its just that they didn't managed to keep their momentum, new ggs stole the spotlight and itzy got forgotten.
JYP's unappealing, poorly made music is what led to itzy and most of the company's groups to decline in popularity/hype, then you combine with the overall cheapness to really seal the deal.
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