Instead of saying only Sm in decline, all Big 3 are currently facing the same struggle

Agree 100%. SM will slowly losing their older acts too one by one. Jyp losing their magic touch. Yg need to knock some sense into their head.

They are kinda old school generation that refused to improvise or moving on by how they managed the company.

Quote from SooYoung

For the moment SM seems to have learn from their past mistakes looking at how Aespa and Riize are doing they understood that the old formula was no longer working

YG didn't seem to understand this yet considering how treasure is doing badly but BM have a lot of hype so i'm sure they'll be successfull

JYP is the one in the biggest mess currently, none of his recent groups is able to stand out as a strong contender, both itzy and nmixx are losing interest domestically and internationally

They give up on debuting their new BG who was from PSY survival show after watching the lack of interest around them

And Xdinary heroes isn't able to bring half of the interest Day6 had during their debut with congratulations

NMIXX is the biggest flop coming from a big 3 gg and they had a lot of hype thanks to Lily at debut

Even A2K doesn't seem to hype ppl besides JYP stan

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Treasure aint even doing badly though? They probs have more income then Ikon/Winner did.

The decline comes form the fact that these companies aren't innovating anymore and that's what making Hybe successful the big3 are rehashing the exact same ideas that they started with BM is going to be the 3rd YG gg that follows the girl crush formula at some point people get tire of this and Sm tries so hard to be experimental that it ended up being very bad and not that innovative and Jyp is Jyp

Quote from SooYoung

For the moment SM seems to have learn from their past mistakes looking at how Aespa and Riize are doing they understood that the old formula was no longer working

The only question is, will they let these groups to continue expand their wings or will they stop them when they're big enough to their liking? Sm is a control freak company. They don't want to lose their artists but at the same time didn't want to spend more to make them stay like Yg did to Bp or Hybe/Bighit did to Bts. Cbx lawsuit happen just this year too. I am afraid of what they planned or what slave contract they will make their idols sign to make sure these groups or popular members will stay in that company for a very long time without no lawsuit issues.

JYP is much much better than in the past

There were times they didn't even have a true big group who could generate stable revenues. Their market cap was FNC level. I always find them pretty pathetic company to be put in the same place as YG or SM both true big companies with multiple successful artists

JYP has now by far their biggest BG (Stray Kids) and also their biggest GG (Twice). How are they declining ?

It's funny people are talking shit about JYP when besides HYBE they are miles ahead of most groups. Dont get me wrong they have their problems and I do think they need better producers to catch up with the trends but their groups are still doing well. They have three girl groups that can sell above or near 1 million ables per release. I do agree digitally they need to do better but just from a money generation factor album sales and touring is where money comes from along with merch. Twice is one of the better touring groups in kpop. ITZY can also tour well enough and NMIXX is still a rookie group in their first year. This isnt even talking ab out their boy group Stray Kids which is one of the biggest boy groups right now. Also this isnt talking about NIZIU who are huge in Japan. JYPE is probably in the its best condition since the late 2000s. They have all the building blocks to be huge and expand more they just need to find the musical touch to catch the domestics attention which isnt hard at all and they have shown they can do it. Recently Cake did well enough and they do have hits every now and then.

SM is also fine but they really only have two groups they can rely on, AESPA and NCT. RIIZE shows promise but they just started so it is too soon to tell.

YG is in trouble completely. Treasure is good but they cant replace BP and if YG cant secure some deal with the girls then it will be a huge lose.

I would say that while it's clear the era of complete domination of the big three is over, or at least dormant, I would not rule out at least SM or JYPE yet and YG always can come back of course their music is very popular in Korea and they always produce great girl group. Baemon will be the group to watch and whether or not BP decide to stay with the company. If BP stay and Bemon debuts well, YG will be just fine.

Quote from Icaro_Ribeiro

JYP is much much better than in the past

There were times they didn't even have a true big group who could generate stable revenues. Their market cap was FNC level. I always find them pretty pathetic company to be put in the same place as YG or SM both true big companies with multiple successful artists

JYP has now by far their biggest BG (Stray Kids) and also their biggest GG (Twice). How are they declining ?

the declining narrative is mostly about their failure domestically which is true to an extent but not completely of course. Cake by ITZY has done well and NMIXX did well with their release before this past one. JYPE just needs some trendy producers and they will find their footing. The good aspects is that all their mainstream groups have a solid fanbase to build on so it's not completely terrible. People saying JYP is failing now clearly dont remember the time you mentioned when honestly it was more of a Big 2 and a half. Hype from roughly 2012-2016 was not doing too well at all.

Quote from Icaro_Ribeiro

JYP is much much better than in the past

There were times they didn't even have a true big group who could generate stable revenues. Their market cap was FNC level. I always find them pretty pathetic company to be put in the same place as YG or SM both true big companies with multiple successful artists

JYP has now by far their biggest BG (Stray Kids) and also their biggest GG (Twice). How are they declining ?

I can understand the description for Jyp well tho. This post mentioned earlier that it has nothing to do with sales and revenues. And they also mentioned that Jyp were in bad position before twice debuted.

Isn't it obvious that jyp is in decline in term of their gg and domestic popularity? They used to be known for their great gg. But now they have the weakest set of gg in 4th gen among big companies and also the worst in charting domestically + sales.

Quote from icyruios

Lies

JYP has Day6

Day6 carrying the company

Charting wise they are doing the best among JYP idols and most solid, me thinks.

Quote from ForgottenSoul

Treasure aint even doing badly though? They probs have more icome then Ikon/Winner did.

Only thing they miss are good charting and national hits, but I am not sure that is important when they have good album sales and tour numbers. <- bigger than ikon and winner for sure.

Quote from Icaro_Ribeiro

JYP is much much better than in the past

There were times they didn't even have a true big group who could generate stable revenues. Their market cap was FNC level. I always find them pretty pathetic company to be put in the same place as YG or SM both true big companies with multiple successful artists

JYP has now by far their biggest BG (Stray Kids) and also their biggest GG (Twice). How are they declining ?

They had Bae Suzy and that alone makes them forever big 3, say whatever you want to say☝️

Quote from icyruios

I'm just saying, this was for the 1st half of 2023 (before ITZY Cake I think?)

And they did this with 2 songs that were released in 2019 and 2017

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Yeah they are doing well, every few months their songs suddenly start charting and at randomest times and randomest songs lol

but all groups have really highsales, if they can just make money off their fanbases who cares if they are "in decline"

On what metric are they declining? All 3 companies are raking in record profits every year with no sign of slowing down. The only one on shaky ground is YG because BlackPink disbanding would be a huge loss to the company. Sure they have Babymonster coming up they haven't even debuted yet so it's hard to tell if they will replicate BlackPink's level of success.

Quote from icyruios

Lies

JYP has Day6

Day6 carrying the company

Day Six does NOT carry the company. It is a net loss, only kept because of JYP's wishes to have a band under his thumb.

Edam Entertainment, one of the Big 5

Thread

Isn't it now the Big 5 Companies? SM, JYP, YG, Big Hit (Hybe) and ... Edam?

Big Hit (Hybe) is bigger than the 'Big 3' combined
so it should be included.

And, while Edam Entertainment has only one singer who spends more time acting,

when there was a poll, she was included in the 5 most powerful figures in KPop

Lee Sooman, owner of SM
Park Jinyoung, owner of JYP
Bang Sihyuk, owner of Big Hit/Hybe
Lee Jieun, effective owner of Edam Entertainment

and BTS.

And, out of the KPop figures, only EXO (SM) and BTS (Big Hit/Hybe) did a concert in the biggest venue of Korea, and IU(Edam)…

WhyKnock

Apr 6th 2021

Not doing well either, since its former owner has not promoted for 2 years and is doing her best to weasal out of singing, while not supporting its new arrival Woodz at all.

Quote from Icaro_Ribeiro

JYP is much much better than in the past

There were times they didn't even have a true big group who could generate stable revenues. Their market cap was FNC level. I always find them pretty pathetic company to be put in the same place as YG or SM both true big companies with multiple successful artists

JYP has now by far their biggest BG (Stray Kids) and also their biggest GG (Twice). How are they declining ?

Because their newer acts are not doing great.

Twice is in its second round of contract. The members collect more.

Kpop is doing well. It’s just that the groups succeeding nowadays are all from one label instead of being shared across the big 3

Quote from SooYoung

For the moment SM seems to have learn from their past mistakes looking at how Aespa and Riize are doing they understood that the old formula was no longer working

YG didn't seem to understand this yet considering how treasure is doing badly but BM have a lot of hype so i'm sure they'll be successfull

SM, I think it's more that Lee Sooman left and he was the main drive behind the whole AI/SMCU multimedia concept, pushing hard for it. With him gone, seems like current SM management is breaking down that whole concept road - however, although LSM's vision was seriously flawed (at least the execution of it and - as SM's habit - the communication about it), it seems like they don't have a coherent vision for the future of the company and groups to follow it up with.

YG, same kinda thing: I dunno, YG in his heyday had a Trumpian/Elon Musk style of social media propagandizing, regardless how you might feel about it, it's hard to deny that in those days there was this energy about YG Entertainment as a whole - YG managed to transform Big Bang's, 2NE1's and other YG artists' successes into this narrative of 'YG being the best' and being a fashion/culture/k-pop trailblazer.

However, now that YG has withdrawn from the foreground, the energy seems to have dissipated from YG.

JYP, they seem to have a problem with their current songwriters. Somehow they're not able to deliver hit songs anymore in the quantity and quality that they used to in peak 3rd gen years.

Aint all of the big 4 like rising though?

Quote from WhyKnock

Because their newer acts are not doing great.

Twice is in its second round of contract. The members collect more.

Nmixx being their biggest flop in years, but selling millions, what does that say about their business model?

It doesn't seem the lack of hits songs and relevance is hitting their bottom line.

Quote from SooYoung

saying this for jyp group and then say SM can only rely on Aespa an NCT is quite ironic

considering that Red velvet can also tour well, is able to sell +1M album like itzy and had a better charting for the past 2 year than any jyp group

or the touring power that group like Shinee etc... still have to this day

or how crazy EXO sales are

You are mentioning a lot of past groups here. Also Red Velvet is having uncertainty regarding certain members staying at SM. I would also say that their touring ability is basically on par with ITZY and nowhere near Twice. They did well digitally though but RV has been slowing down considerable and it’s clear they are moving away from regularly promoting them as a group as they focus on solo work.

EXO and Shinee are great but those are old groups and their popularity has decreased considerably from their peak. Right now SM big groups and the ones they rely on the most are Aespa and NCT. With a look towards RIIzE as well. This isn’t really a controversial statement.

I didn’t even say that’s a bad thing it’s just true. It’s not like I’m you and try to paint JYPE on the verge of collapse when they have one of the most popular girl groups in history currently doing a stadium tour and one of the biggest boy groups currently in SK. With two girl groups that do very well in sales and touring compared to normal touring power. And finally with then having a significantly popular girl group in Japan. I would say JYPE is in a pretty good place right now they just need more trendy producers.

DISAGRE 10000%

JYPE=TWICE along with STRAY kids and other JYPE artists are having HISTORIC world tours. Is forming US and Japan groups and is reaching unprecedented heights as an entertainment company. - also most profitable this yr percentage wise vs last yr out of the big 4.

YG - BP literally had one of the most profitable tours in all of music history, and Treasure had a successful debut and a soldout 1st tour, with Babemon gaining interest - all YG artists are doing well - even Ikon , they had a successful 1st world tour - granted it was in smaller venues, but their rebound is promising. YG rode out the scandal and, as a company, are at a better place now than in the past.. which is shocking tbh.- this is mainly all thanks to BP.

sm however is stagnant and don't seem to know where they're headed. they have artists going on social media venting their frustrations, no visible plan for the future, and just seems... like they have no direction. what sm artists are on tour right now? nct dream? they're not making much of an impact.. both YG and JYP are selling out stadiums, while nct dream can barely fill a small arena. who else?

point is, JYPE and YG artists are active and making waves in the music industry - both in the east and in the west... where is Sm??

when was the last time u saw anyone excited about an SM artist?

exactly

Quote from Person01

Nmixx being their biggest flop in years, but selling millions, what does that say about their business model?

It doesn't seem the lack of hits songs and relevance is hitting their bottom line.

Will they even be able to have an arena tour?

what goes up must come down

it might not be tomorrow or even 10 years but sooner or later everything does

for the big 3 it's a constant reminder that they must continue to innovate and move forward

"be not afraid of moving slowly, be afraid of standing still"

to me, JYP has taken this step to work like the old SM - focus more on sales than digital relevancy. In a way, the revenue grown + market cap increased. Good for them but they will not be the talk in town anymore and just relying on the fanbase like how SM have been doing

SM tried to break into GP more by releasing more GP friendly tracks? It kinda backfired a bit cause some fanbase like them, some didnt. GP also arent completely buying into them. So SM pretty much deadlocked, dont know how to proceed. Experimental or not? Maybe just flip flopping between releases 🤣

YG - after burning sun their reputation entirely gone. Their success hinges on how they manage to convert blinks into BM's fans. If they fail,they are doomed if BP is not renewing

Quote from lahel

DISAGRE 10000%

JYPE=TWICE along with STRAY kids and other JYPE artists are having HISTORIC world tours. Is forming US and Japan groups and is reaching unprecedented heights as an entertainment company. - also most profitable this yr percentage wise vs last yr out of the big 4.

YG - BP literally had one of the most profitable tours in all of music history, and Treasure had a successful debut and a soldout 1st tour, with Babemon gaining interest - all YG artists are doing well - even Ikon , they had a successful 1st world tour - granted it was in smaller venues, but their rebound is promising. YG rode out the scandal and, as a company, are at a better place now than in the past.. which is shocking tbh.- this is mainly all thanks to BP.

sm however is stagnant and don't seem to know where they're headed. they have artists going on social media venting their frustrations, no visible plan for the future, and just seems... like they have no direction. what sm artists are on tour right now? nct dream? they're not making much of an impact.. both YG and JYP are selling out stadiums, while nct dream can barely fill a small arena. who else?

point is, JYPE and YG artists are active and making waves in the music industry - both in the east and in the west... where is Sm??

when was the last time u saw anyone excited about an SM artist?

exactly

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Ikon left YG LMAO

Quote from gerrard174

Ikon left YG LMAO

ok. i knew that. the point is YG is rebounding fine.

let's all move on

Quote from lahel

ok. i knew that. the point is YG is rebounding fine.

let's all move on

YG is basically BP right now, and nothing more than that. Without BP, YG would/will be a pale shadow and they're already a pale shadow compared to the blazing light that they were a k-pop gen ago. Never knew that the scandals and YG stepping back would make that big a difference.

As for JYP, their charting has become their weak spot as well as their 4th gen groups, but tbf, seems like they've given up on that or dismissed as a priority now their focus is touring and album sales.

SM, agreed, they feel rudderless/visionless now that LSM left and the new management hasn't really jumped into the gap., However, of the 3 companies their artists so far have performed the best on k-charts and their sales have been good (even if not the #1) with Aespa even having the best sales of 3rd gen and 4th gen ggs (excl. BP).

Quote from FoReveries

YG is basically BP right now, and nothing more than that. Without BP, YG would/will be a pale shadow and they're already a pale shadow compared to the blazing light that they were a k-pop gen ago. Never knew that the scandals and YG stepping back would make that big a difference.

yeh... but it really was a big scandal - wont go into legitimacies of the scandal cus that's somethin else entirely - but it would've brought down any lesser companies, and YG rebounding is a testament to their organizing structure and maturity as a company.. but again, as we both agree, it's mostly BP.

Quote from FoReveries

As for JYP, their charting has become their weak spot as well as their 4th gen groups, but tbf, seems like they've given up on that or dismissed as a priority now their focus is touring and album sales.

disagree.

JYP has 2 of the biggest acts in Kpop right now - strays and Twice - and anything they put out charts well and sells in the millions.

Say what you will about Nmixx, but they're not a flop by any means - they sold 500k for Ad mare, 560k+ for Entwurf, nearly 1 million for Midsummer and again nearly a million for their extended play Expergo. Both Ad Mare and Entwurf charted #1, Midsummer at #3 and Expergo at #2. These are FAR from "flopping" numbers the anti's claim they are. idk how u can claim their 'charting has become a weak spot".

what i think you might mean is .. JYP is charting "weaker" than previously - but even that's not true. Nmixx is sellin and chartin far better than when twice debuted - story begins charted #3, page 2 charted at #2.

what i think you REALLY mean is that JYP 4th gen GG is faring worse when compared to their contemporaries - such as NJs, Le sserafim, IVE - who all debuted around the same time. that so far is true, but we're entering uncharted waters with 4th gen kpop with all the momentum carried on by the 3rd gen and kpop's global expansion- that being said, it dont think u can genuinely say "charting has become their weak spot' when they're all mostly charting at #1.

Quote from FoReveries

As for JYP, their charting has become their weak spot as well as their 4th gen groups, but tbf, seems like they've given up on that or dismissed as a priority now their focus is touring and album sales.

It's not that JYPE has given up on Digital Charting, it's just that it's never been a priority. In 2017, TWICE had 4 number 1 songs, they followed it with 3 more in 2018. JYPark at the time said that Digital Rankings weren't that important, Album Sales were.

Many people here mention sales and world tours when defending certain groups, but nobody is saying they're flopping.

Ex: Itzy and Nmixx have good sales but their latest title tracks aren't that known in the gp, they don't have a strong impact. (JYP should seriously hire new producers)

Same thing with treasure, they're selling well and better than winner and ikon, despite that the gp will be able to recognise Winner and Ikons songs more than Treasure's. The members are also not as popular as Winner in S. Korea, idk about ikon.

Stray kidz are doing really good but, but are the songs and members really known by koreans as much as 2pm. I don't think so.

We used to have bigbang, super junior, shinee and 2pm at the same time and then exo too.

I'm not trying to compare but it's true that the way kpop works changed and kpop groups are generally less popular with the gp but more popular internationally. Also with BTS, Hybe and even the produce series that made certain members known like wonyoung and seoyeon (she's the reasonbehind gidle's success), the competition has become bigger.

I blame BTS for this