DISCUSSION: Should your career be destroyed over a school bullying incident?

Quote from superyeah

The person you are right now is different from the person you were 10 years ago. You probably don't even remember how you used to be. The purpose of punishing anyone should be to make sure they learn and grow, not to punish for the sake of punishment.

If you've already changed, what good does it do to punish you? It only sets you back, preventing you from contributing to society and living your purpose to your fullest potential.

You might argue that it's necessary for your career to be destroyed because the bullied victim would find closure that way. I disagree. The optimal way to do it is for you to meet up with the bullied victim and make a sincere apology, showcasing that you've changed and grown as a person. That would be much more effective if it's closure that the bullied victim is seeking.

Live and let live. It's much more satisfying to see everyone involved become better and find happiness instead of all this gloom, doom, revenge, and regret.

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This is true but depends of the accusations and how they handle right now the scandal, they should sincerely apologize, if they changed they should have done it before debut or when they matured but at least doing it now

School bullying should be dealt with at school what are authorities and adults in these children’s lives doing?

When children bully esp in young ages like primary and middle school both the bully and the one being bullied are representative of adults who failed them.

South Korea should take a long hard look at its severe bullying problem in schools and not depend on public ceremony. Ok these idols got caught and now what. What about the hundreds of other bullies who do other jobs? What about them?

It may seem like justice when idols loose their careers but ultimately it is not solving any problem.

If you still act like a bully, yes, it should. If you take your time to apologize to those you hurt, show remorse, show that you learned from your mistakes, it's okay to forgive and move on.

For those fans out there attacking the G-IDLE girls victim, you are part of the reason she was kicked out, congrats!

Yes. That is 100% fair. You reap what you sow. How is it fair for bullies liive theif dreams and victims to live with all the mental problems and dreams stolen. Maybe some victims wanted to become idols too but because of mental damage they recerved they could reach it and now they works as a cashier at 7/11... how is it fair for bully idols to live their dreams with someone else stolen dreams. Its fair that their careers are taken away and they have to work at 7/11 too.

Besides wheter idols want or not, they are role models. Kpops main audience is teens, pre-teens etc. What kind of message that gives u? You bully someone and destroy their life, now you are rewarded to live your dream. Having your career taken away is such a storng soft power against bullying

to be honest bullying can leave trauma that can last for a lifetime and can change a person's whole personality.. some poople lose confidence for life and some develop insecurities which they sometimes never overcome

you can be a different person from what you were 10 years ago but what if there are victims who suffered because of you all those years till now and are still suffering?

its way more serious than just a petty quarrel and tbh those who never went through it will never even begin to understand how traumatizing it is...

Do I think it's something to lose your career over? No, because that just increases the chances of ruining another life

But Do I feel bad or have any sympathy for people who lost their careers this way? No, not even a bit.. If you do bad, it will bite you back someday in life, and if thats how it came back to you, well then that is how it was supposed to happen to you ig... I dont have sympathy for you right now, just like you didnt for your victims back then..

People need to stop passing bullying as teenage drama / young minds whatever shit, cause bullies always know what they are doing... even a 5-year-old kid knows that its wrong to treat others badly...

bullies know they are hurting someone but still continue to do it.. and that shit is disgusting no matter what your age is.. and tbh what goes around comes around some way or the other...

Imo, it shouldn't, and it would never have happened in the US or other Western countries.

For multiple reasons it shouldn't:

- people change, you shouldn't be sentenced based on the things you did many years ago as a kid or in puberty

- a fight, having words or a conflict is NOT the same as bullying: but suddenly every fight you had, every conflict, bad thing you said about someone else, every disagreement on high school runs the risk of becoming weaponized and used against you as a bullying accusation when you're a celeb and someone from your high school class has a grudge against you, or wants a score to settle

- school bullying is something to address, but starting witch hunts is NOT the way to do it, and this becomes basically ANOTHER form of bullying, but now by angry online mobs and netizens eager/excited/hungry to see celebs and idols bleed - this in the same line how witch hunts happened in medieval times, where selective targets who weren't deemed 'proper' enough got punished for it with the excuse of them being evil 'witches' and warlocks

my opinion, depending the actual victims whether they forgive or not. That's the most important part since it's them who experienced it.

Ex:

If the victims said that their career as a celebrity should be over then should be it. It's means that the bullying was more severe that what is brought up in the light.

If the victims forgave the perpetrator then they deserved second chance (case closed)

Depends how severe was the bullying and when it happened. In general, you can't hold someone accountable for what they have done in middle school and I say this as someone who has been bullied since primary school all the way through high school.

Quote from superyeah

That is true. I don't like the idea of apologizing just to get it over with. It has to come from genuine acknowledgement of fault.

As for making the apology before debut, yes, it would be ideal, but some people might not get the chance to do it or they might not have the courage to do it.

i'm sorry but i don't buy that the bully do not have the courage to apologize, if they had the courage to bully the victim, they should have the courage to apologize too.

I agree with genuine acknowledgement of fault but i find hard to believe they have changed for the better if they don't even try to make things right for their past mistakes, mistakes which affected somebody else's life.

Depends on your career. If youre a beloved and looked up to public figure who's behaviour people will follow than yes. The damage you've caused to someones life cannot be given back, the misery and anxiety youve caused cannot be taken back.

The spotlight and love of millions of people isnt a place for a bully.

It's fair to me. You reap what you sow.

If you're a school bully yourself, you shouldn't have chosen celebrity as a career to begin with and the damage could have been lessen. But no, you still want to be famous and appear on TV/CFs for the victims to see your face so that they could remember all the horrible things you did in the past. Then you can't blame anyone for the consequences.

I really don't care what happens to the idol if the bullying accusation is true. That decision is upto the company. I care more about the victim.

I have never bullied someone so I think it‘s kinda difficult for me to judge someone elses actions. I do believe people can/do change over time and I’m certain everybody does mistakes once in a while. However in my opinion people who bully others tend to have some type of narcissistic character traits, so I‘m skeptical whether those type of people should be promoted as a public role model, not to mention being idolized.

Nevertheless we need to raise the question whether entertainment companies should check their trainees past before accepting them? Or should they just rely on their trainees narratives?

Personally I believe it would be a huge effort to investigate each trainees personal background. Most companies wouldn‘t be interested in that einher, I guess.

If the bullying was severe enough and the victim suffered tremendous psychological damage from it then possibly. Some people can be that traumatised over things that happened in their early life that it can last a lifetime. It shouldn’t destroy a person’s life or livelihood but invariably can and does unfortunately.

Quote from www1717

Ex:

If the victims said that their career as a celebrity should be over then should be it. It's means that the bullying was more severe that what is brought up in the light.

That makes no sense. Being a victim doesn't earn you the right to dispose of your bully's life as you see fit. A victim can turn into as much of a bully as their former bully was. And two wrongs don't make a right. Being a victim doesn't make you wiser and fairer, on the contrary. That's why in courtrooms they don't put the victim and their family among the jury, that would be preposterous.

It's too complicated to debate about school bullying in general as these words encompass a broad range of actions and situations. The word hakpok (school violence) used in Korea describes anything from verbal abuse to physical assault. Because of this, a few insults thrown in a hallway become as severe as a beating and racketting in the restroom. That's kinda absurd imo.

If anything, it's not the former bullies that should be hunted years (decades even?) after the events, but the institutions that failed to protect the kids and let the bullying phenomenon go wild and unchecked in Korean schools. Kids are not supposed to police themselves, adults are. So where were the adults? What were they doing?

There are so many factors to take into account imo; each case is different, so i don't think you can just agree or disagree with your question.

The only things i can say for every case is that it's kind of insane how fast an accusation turns into a witch hunt without any extra info & if you have a past as a bully (when you were >15y give or take), why pursue a carreer as an idol??

not saying idols can't make mistakes or that you can be an ex-bully when you are an actor/office worker/... , but idols are known for their very clean image.

I think the important thing here is to define what is bullying because honestly half the idols are accused of is not even bullying, i think people shouldn't be so sensitive now days, when i was in school i was insulted some times people hif my bagpack a few times, it would be dumb if i said i was bullied and now have severe trauma, having an argument with a class mate or they calling you names a few times isn't bullying and shouldn't create trauma, trauma should only be possible if you were bullied everyday for a longish period of time, so i call BS how koreans get trauma for the most stupid things

If it was another career I would say no, but we're talking about idols here. Their whole career is based upon people's opinions. If they couldn't show remorse while bullying the other person, why should public show remorse either? Honestly, bullies don't deserve love from millions of people.

Also, most of these idols aren't even that old. It's probably been at max 5 years since they left high school. Unless they went through a sudden psychological trauma, I doubt they would change so soon.

I could've still given the benefit of doubt, if they apologized the moment they were exposed but acting like you don't remember anything says a lot about how much you've changed.

I've worked with teenagers and I have to say most bullying cases are not as clear cut as people like to portray them on TV. A bully can very well be the victim of bullying themself from another person and so on, should all of them get punished then? What we did in bullying cases was work with all the people involved without pointing fingers to ensure they understood where the line was and where they needed to understand that their idea of "not a big deal" might be different from someone else's. It's been far more productive than just throwing accusations at everyone. I've seen kids be completely ignorant that what they were doing was bullying, only "teasing", I've seen kids say that being shoved once in gym class led to massive psychological trauma, etc. People's perceptions vary so much.

What would actually matter is schools and society creating an environment where people are more unlikely to bully, but looking at these online witch hunts, nobody is interested in that. Just read the insults and hatred, how is that any different? why do you expect kids not to mimic the behaviour they see from adults all around them and online.

hmmm... i see where both are coming from my friend however that always depends on the circumstances

as always i am a consequensialist that is i look at the consequences of the action not the action per se...

if the victim wants revenge sure i can understand and go for it... if the victim wants mediation/resolution sure i can understand and go for it

there's never a one size fits all so i would say both options are correct...it's really up to the individual to decide and not on us the bystander to judge their actions and how they conduct themselves...

I grew up with Buddhism and Buddha taught about redemption and forgiveness. So, yes, I believe the bully should be given the second chance. Yet, due to the traumatic nature of bullying, it needs to be dealt with seriously and the example that bullying will follow with harsh consequence has to be set. Is there the the middle ground between this? In my religion, the culprit may take religious retreat and donate to reflect.

Quote from sassily

What would actually matter is schools and society creating an environment where people are more unlikely to bully, but looking at these online witch hunts, nobody is interested in that.

Spot on. These online crusades don't come from the wish of making things better for everyone, they come from resentment and bitterness.

Yea of course. It obviously depends on the bullying but yes if you bully enough where people fell the need for speaking up about it years later you should lose your career. Let me address the few push backs here….

1)what if they changed?

Irrelevant to what they did in the past. If a person abused their spouse for a time but stopped after divorce and years later the victim came after them and the abuser said they changed would that mean anything to what was already done to the victim? No.

2) the “just kids” argument. Bullying is not something all kids just do. Yes kids can be jerks but kids are not all bully’s and bullying isn’t some phase all kids go through. You don’t get to excuse your shit behavior as “just kids” when most other kids managed to go through school not being a bully

3) Schools fault as well for not handling the situation better. I agree but this is irrelevant to the question. The schools definitely should definitely improve their reaction to this stuff but that says nothing to excuse the bully.

4) not fair to idols as their faces on in the media while the accusers are anonymous. This is usually the case and is good. Having their name blasted everywhere would discourage victims from coming forward as the rabid fans would immediately attack them and it could threaten they lived or sense of security. These people are private and have not started public careers essentially forfeiting some rights to their private lives. Idols willingly sign up to be public figures and that means both being famous and making money if they get big and dealing with the consequences of maybe past actions. Is it always 100% fair? No but life isn’t always fair and usually the stars accused of this stuff are big enough where there is some weight to this.

So again if credible bullying allegations are leveled against you yes it should end your entertainment career. I don’t care if you changed, or that you were just a kid. I hope you have a better career in a more humble job.

Quote from Alex_Murphy

That makes no sense. Being a victim doesn't earn you the right to dispose of your bully's life as you see fit. A victim can turn into as much of a bully as their former bully was. And two wrongs don't make a right. Being a victim doesn't make you wiser and fairer, on the contrary. That's why in courtrooms they don't put the victim and their family among the jury, that would be preposterous.

It's too complicated to debate about school bullying in general as these words encompass a broad range of actions and situations. The word hakpok (school violence) used in Korea describes anything from verbal abuse to physical assault. Because of this, a few insults thrown in a hallway become as severe as a beating and racketting in the restroom. That's kinda absurd imo.

If anything, it's not the former bullies that should be hunted years (decades even?) after the events, but the institutions that failed to protect the kids and let the bullying phenomenon go wild and unchecked in Korean schools. Kids are not supposed to police themselves, adults are. So where were the adults? What were they doing?

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That's what I'm underline it's MY OWN OPINION

It doesn't mean that their life is over. smh

It's just mean that I approve the victim's wish that the perpetrator doesn't deserved to be celebrity anymore. They still has enough money, they can pursue other work sectors. Please, don't compare them with crime or other heavy offense that deserved a sentences or ultimately ended up in jail.

I'm just seeing this from Victim's POV, how much they hurting inside everytime they seeing their former perpetrators in the television or shows. There're must be the reason why they can't forgive them, one reason is the bullying cases are more severe than what's brought up in the light. Stop this defense mechanism by blaming the institutions or adults, the one who's at fault is themselves who did it.

Is your default reaction to find somebody or something else to blame for your problems?

"If the Institution or adults protect them , this bullying cases won't happen.. bla bla bla"

yeah I know, it's easier

Quote from www1717

Is your default reaction to find somebody or something else to blame for your problems?

"If the Institution or adults protect them , this bullying cases won't happen.. bla bla bla"

yeah I know, it's easier

No, because I'm a grown man, not a child. That's the difference. That's what changes everything. Children are children. If children were reponsible of their own actions, they wouldn't be considered children, they would be considered adults. Maybe you're not an adult yet, that's why you can't see the difference.

Countries and industries are different. Typically, in other industries it wouldn't destroy a person's career. It depends on severity though; anything involving stuff like rape or sexual assault would almost never get a free pass. Unless the bullying behavior isn't recent or continues to happen beyond school life, it shouldn't have a major career impact.

Everybody makes mistakes. The damage is done. If the former perpitrator can help the victim heal by apologizing, that could be helpful and mature. Apologizing might not ever be enough, but that is a part of the process for the perpitrator to absolve bad karma.

Bullies aren't born, they are made. Some people hurt others because they have been hurt and there are people with psychological dispositions who victimize others because they are so disconnected they don't have a capacity or desire to understand how their actions affect other people.

I think it is important for agencies to screen out any trainees and employees with certain psychological dispositions, as a part of a background check, because they have the potential to create a lot of victims and enable other perpitrators.

Quote from Alex_Murphy

No, because I'm a grown man, not a child. That's the difference. That's what changes everything. Children are children. If children were reponsible of their own actions, they wouldn't be considered children, they would be considered adults. Maybe you're not an adult yet, that's why you can't see the difference.

Also, what age you consider them as children?

In fact, ages 10-13 already included in early adolescence which mean transition between childhood to adulthood therefore they should be responsible for their own actions. This is not me making up stories.

Look up the bullies cases, what ages they did the bullying .

Quote from Tic_tac_toe

School bullying should be dealt with at school what are authorities and adults in these children’s lives doing?

When children bully esp in young ages like primary and middle school both the bully and the one being bullied are representative of adults who failed them.

South Korea should take a long hard look at its severe bullying problem in schools and not depend on public ceremony. Ok these idols got caught and now what. What about the hundreds of other bullies who do other jobs? What about them?

It may seem like justice when idols loose their careers but ultimately it is not solving any problem.

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I just read an intellectual post