if article in ten asia telling the truth.
Top level of selective perception
Posts by bzzz
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Two honest questions:
I don't understand why they are appealing again. Can they hope for a new panel? Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't they have to pay for the whole trial when they lose? So aren't they just wasting money or is there a good reason? For example, do they don't have to work for hype while the appeal goes on?
If they lose after say a year, and its less money to terminate at that time how long does it take to termiate? Is it just pay the penilty and be done or does that take time.
If they win the injunction, they will start working independently again. If not, they have to wait until the lawsuit is over.
The losing side have to pay the court fee and lawyer fee to the winner. But, the lawyer fee the loser pays is in the standard rate set by the court regulation, which is not much. The winner still has to shoulder the excessive lawyer fee. Also, civil cases often end in settlement without clear loser and winner. In this case, each side shoulder any fee by itself.
Newjeans is freed once it pays the fee but, the fee it has to pay is not only the penalty fee. It has to pay "damage fee" also. Newjeans still is contracted to Ador and any missed prospective activity incurs damage to Ador. For example, Ador planned a world tour for Newjeans, which has been canceled. Once Newjeans loses the lawsuit, Ador may estimate the world tour income and demand that presumed money from Newjeans. The damage fee is accumulating as Newjeans misses more and more activities.
The penalty fee itself may be not as large as the damage fee as the judge will adjust the penalty fee to "reasonable" price.
If I understand correctly, the dispute is on the stocks Hybe gave to Min Heejin, not her employment status It's done for that she has been fired. No dispute on this. No coming back.
Who will win or lose is hard to tell as we are not literate in Korean/stock enough to fully understand the detail.
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that user hiakuryu. Had to wade through a bit of condescension but they had some interesting/informative comments.
If you were any knowledgeable in law, you would find him nothing but a hot air balloon.
Hybe would invest even more onto the traitor who might betray again any day. Hmmph. If anything, HYBE would put them under heaviest debt or on shortest leash.
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They should have used this as their case for mistreatment.
Or at least prepared better since it seems like the court shut down their claims for mistreatment.
They should not and it could never work, just like how the judge had ruled it did not matter whatever Park Jiwon, CEO of HYBE, had said, he was not Ador's personnel. Had not Ador been a separated legal entity, it would never matter still. Any court will only dismiss if your excuse to depart is the attitude/the manner of a top executive whom you will ever meet less than 10 times yearly. Imagine an idol from JYP quitting because Park Jinyoung asking them to join his cult all of total 5 times they met.
The court dismissed their mistreatment accusations not only because the lack of evidence but also because they did not count as mistreatment by common standard/by Ador itself. What did they accuse?
- Bang Shihyuk ignored us
- HYBE's CEO said he would shelve us.
- Ador did not fire that Belift Lab's staff/Belift Lab's idols were rude to us.
- Min Heejin was fired.
- Ador cut ties with Dolphin Kidnapper.
- HYBE gave LV deal to LS.
- HYBE debuted LS first.
Meanwhile, these are "mistreatment" accusations from others
- The agency did not pay utility bills, I lived in a room without tap water, electric power and gas.
- He often scolded and hit us and one member was beaten until he fainted out.
- He forced me to date him.
- I was forced to work albeit doctor's advice to rest.
Did you already add appeal onto Chuu's case? The former agency appealed and dragged out the case. I believe there will be appeal in this case too.
I believe there was already a Korean lawyer estimated that it would take 1 year minimum and could be up to 3 years.
Okay, so nobody but me remembers how bad things were for NewJeans before Min Heejin's press conference
Hybe never made any effort to shield those girls and most of their mediaplay hurt NewJeans image just as much as Min Heejins
The revisionist history like Hybe wasnt lying to their parents faces and screwing the girls over as soon as they were out of sight
HYBE called the members "stupid pig" and "slut" behind their backs, right?
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This argument only valid if ignore the fact that Ador existence was because of MHJ only. This was part of her contract (?)/ agreement that bighit/Hybe signed with her. And it's not even given by hybe for free. Her 20% share in Ador was previously her share in Hybe/bighit. The only reason they keep Ador alive until know is related with newjeans IP and I believe to piss MHJ off.
Nah. If HYBE want only the IP, it can make Ador sell the IP and whatever that is of value to another sub-label at dust free price (emptying Ador) before closing it down. This also will piss Ms. Sixth Member as her Ador shares will go naught. I don't think she will be happy to see one of her legacy shut down either.
Whatever its original purpose was, the existence of Ador now is primarily to extort from the 5 defectors. Just drag out the existence of Ador until the end of the lawsuit, HYBE will squeeze dozens millions of income off the defectors.
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NewJeans are not in a good spot but Ador situation is really bad too.
Their only group is on hiatus, most (all?) the creative staff left the company and it's likely that the current staff has no experience in managing/producing a kpop group.
Ador revenue will drop really fast (contracts will end and not be renewed). Hybe will have to make huge investments in Ador to keep it alive and to debut a new group in it. New groups are likely to flop due to Ador bad image and because Ador will always be remembered as MHJ/NewJeans label. I think Ador could become a burden for Hybe quite fast
Wishful delusional belief
HYBE won't let Ador die or the case is wrapped up in Newjeans' favor with the "death" of the plaintiff (Ador).
To keep it alive, HYBE can make its other sub-labels lending needed personnel to Ador or hiring some veteran freelancers so Ador can launch a new group. (There was already the plan to debut a new boy group in the pipeline before MHJ left). In worst case, Hybe can buy out a small label to put it under Ador's wings.
The image of the label has minimal effect to the popularity of a group. Which one of Big4 has "clean" image? Drug Store YG, Cultist JYP, Enslaving S.M or Greedy HYBE?
A conglomerate of HYBE's side can easily absorb a "burden" of this size.
Sure maybe NJZ will help create some new laws but will THEY be able to enjoy the fruits of it, who really knows. So far it’s never happened.
No, it won't. Is not their true motivation clear to you? They want to move to a new label with their beloved sixth member without paying the compensation. If the authority decides to honor idols' freedom to agency choice, the whole K-pop industry will orient toward "economic" route, no more costly long pre-debut training, no more extravaganza debut etc.
This issue has not gained enough public support for the Blue House to hammer the front-runner of its soft power.
Newjeans might have a solid argument had they case based on "They have put us on long hiatus." instead of "He said he would put us on long hiatus.".
So you have to have a Chinese name.
Not always the case. I believe I've seen Chinese fans wrote Minnie as Minnie.
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Coz they don't exactly have Chinese names
Like Jackson Wang his Chinese name is 王嘉尔 which is Wang Jia Er not exactly Wang Jackson
Unless it's like Tzuyu 周子瑜 which is pronounced as Zhou Zi Yu. So her name Tzuyu is Zi Yu in Chinese but then I suppose a lot of non Chinese speaking fans can't pronounce it they end up saying Zoo Yoo or Chewy. Chinese is hard to pronounce for non Chinese speaking because of the different intonations
Nah. Most Korean names have "hanja" or "Han" character version of them. In such case, the hanja version is registered in birth certificate. The "hanja" of the name can be searched up on namuwiki. The "hanja" may be treated as "Chinese name" for the Korean idol. For example, hanja of An Yujin is 安兪眞 thus, you may use "An Yuzhen" as her Chinese name. In the case the idol's name comes with no hanja, Chinese fans may create the Chinese name based on the meaning of the name. For example Gaeul is authentic Korean word and has no hanja counterpart, Chinese fans write her name Kim Gaeul as 金秋 (Jin Qiu) as gaeul means autumn.
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To gatekeep dreadlocks and braids itself is silly CA.
Head of a man
From somewhere in India
6th century
Gupta art
Figures of elite men
From Ratburi, Thailand
7th - 8th century
Dvaravati art
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You're clueless. The lower the turnout, the easier to tamper/intervene the election.
It's not an accusation, they were proven to have interfered in the 2020 election and the CIA put the Russian perpetrators on their wanted list.
"Proven" by CIA, who later was caught the news fabricator?
That feels bad. I don't know when or if Russia will stop interfering the United States presidential elections. Russia has been accused of election interference in 2024 and also 2016.
You and that another person above need to take some break from mainstream media.
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Biden's team buried Hunter's laptop scandal. Harris' team spread fake news about Trump. Are these interferences?
Also, wasn't a total foreigner (a Chinese student) caught voted only because he felt guilty and attempted to revoke his vote? Did not Musk unveil dupe social welfare numbers? Who knows how many more foreigners voted. Who knows how many citizens double voted using alternate ID numbers. There was a suspicion massive immigration was partly meant to tamper the election.
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ASL had 0% of FiftyFifty and through tampering, he still tried to get 100%. Just because some people rate the chance of something low, doesn’t mean that somebody didn’t attempt a bad deed.
I mean their defense during the injunction hearing made zero sense. All lawyers on media agreed they had no chance yet they attempted.
I'm pretty sure this violated the injunction.
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This is the upcomming JPop group HANA under the company BMSG who had been found in a survival show by the JPop-artist Chanmina in collaboration with BMSG's CEO rapper SKY-HI
Oneday you will have ZERO chance to distinguish anyone in Asian music anymore... their styling is crazy for a JPop group oof. I mean sure there are groups already who have styles going into that direction but still noit as crazy as on this pic oooof
One thing very distinguished is that "budget" look. The lighting and background looks like that for job application photo rather than decent fashion one, no depth, low contrast, no detail on background. I can imagine there were 2 spot lights behind the camera. And, those "Microsoft Paint" twigs. You don't see this level of budget from K-pop, even from small labels.
By J-pop standard, nothing is crazy about this pic. There have been countless chika groups with bolder styling.
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So you've not read the actual decision. Got it.
The point being I won't talk about the judgement in specific until I've actually read the judgement. I personally don't discuss legal specifics until I have actually read the primary source material. I don't rely on 2nd or 3rd hand reportage.
Other people are of course free to rely on lesser sources.
Your injunction link is dated 19th March 2023
The Lawsuit entry is dated 27 Sept 2024
Quoting from the lawsuit entry
From the same KoreanLii site that you quoted. I'll go with the more modern entry thanks.
Also quoting again from the Judicial Policy Research Institute paper on Contempt of court published in 2016...
By the way the Supreme Court's Commission on Judicial Development proposes the establishment of the Judicial Policy Research Institute was established as an independent research institute in order to plan appropriate policies and engage in research on new solution plans by organically and synthetically combining adjacent fields of studies, conducting systematic research on judicial issues related to preparation for unification, performing comparative studies on foreign justice systems, expanding judicial exchanges with foreign countries, and taking a leading role in influencing the international justice system.
Here is the research paper https://jpri.scourt.go.kr/post…enuSeq=35&lang=en&seq=375
From page 17 and I quote
The criminal contempt of court only exists for what is effectively misbhaviour during a court session such as a trial or hearing upon which a person is deliberately interrupting and impeeding the business of the court in the court room.
In fact upon further reading on Page 27
The entire research paper is basically saying "Korea doesn't have Contempt of court like the US/UK and ROTW our versions of it are way more limited".
I'm super happy that you're ready to shoot from the hip and make definitive statements based on... questionable sources. Others aren't.
So, you just read and understood nothing? Did you seriously believe Ador's chairperson did not listen/read the decision of the court that Ador's rep stated "The court has confirmed our status as the agency of Newjeans."
Your writing on the second topic is so erratic and contradictory.
- You mentioned my 2023 was older and dismissible yet, you brought up a study from 2016?
- Your one quotation (from page 27) implied the existence of "contempt of court", "it is pointed out that there is no way to sanction the case if it is considered that the benefits that can be obtained by not following the court's decision are relatively great..". This, in turn, means there was a way to "sanction" the case if it was considered that the benefit was not relatively great.
The date given could be the date of latest update and, that latest update might be on another section of the page. I had already remarked in the beginning that I was not knowledgeable on Korean law and only commented on general universal concept so ...
I'm fairly amused to see you made a fool of yourself.
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Can someone (ideally a tokki who actually followed her twitter content) confirm or deny whether Talytokki is problematic or not? There are a lot of accusations being thrown, and I have seen the tweets about BTS/Suga but has this girl actually said anything about Illit or LSF?
LINK: Hanni and Danielle DMing and meeting a (problematic?) fan
Either way considering the way Illit's team was ripped apart for supposedly following an anti on twitter (which from my understanding was a primarily Illit fan account who had retweeted shady tweets about NJ), this is not a good look. And this isn't just about NJZ - idols in general should not casually DM fans on twitter or meet up with them without reason.
It's said she flaunted text exchange between her and members and the content was controversial. It's beyond my knowledge what is controversial about it. Also, it's said she spread malicious misinformation on Illit and LS. Anyway, members meeting in private a jobless white fan in her 30 is not appropriate.
At the same time normal employees don't have profit sharing, well bonus and smaller profit sharing sometimes, but they don't get the same amount of revenue sharing as groups like NJ gets.
Actually, it's more common than you think, an employee getting paid salary and revenue sharing. Most commonly in sale department. Sale employees get paid salary and compulsory welfare + commission fee. It's totally possible for idols to be paid similarly to those salespersons.
The current idol system looks more jarring when child idols are not protected by child labor law.
Display MoreYou've read the entire decision? All I've read so far from the legitimate sources is that the preliminary injunction is against working independently. Where does it exactly state the original contract was still effective? Please I'd be utterly fascinated to read the decision in it's entirety if you've read it?
South Korea does not have contempt statutes. So... ok?
https://journal.kci.go.kr/kltp…eView?artiId=ART002151784
https://jpri.scourt.go.kr/post…enuSeq=35&lang=en&seq=375
This directly implies that currently in South Korean law there are no statues defining contempt of court. So thanks for the input here about contempt of court, I don't exactly see the relevance.
Actually they'll set the date to the date of the original termination.
The devil is in the details and so far you've missed out on so many of the details. I eagerly await you linking me to the judgement from the judge to prove me wrong.
I have read the news in details. You definitely haven't.
Excerpt from Joong Ang Daily https://koreajoongangdaily.joi…t-sides-with-ADOR/2267518
The Seoul Central District Court ordered the members of K-pop group NewJeans to cease their independent activities and return to their agency,
"The court concluded on Friday that the group’s termination of its exclusive contracts last November lacked sufficient legal basis,
“With the court’s confirmation of our legal status as NewJeans’ agency, we commit to ensuring continued support for the members,” the company said in a statement.
From Korea Times https://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/art/2025/03/732_394698.html
On Friday, the Seoul Central District Court ruled in favor of Ador, granting the agency the right to maintain its position as NewJeans’ management agency
"Ador has legally confirmed its status as NewJeans' agency, and will fulfill its responsibilities in supporting the artists going forward," the company said.
Here it's said "contempt of court" does exist in South Korea. http://www.koreanlii.or.kr/w/i…hp/Injunction?ckattempt=1
A party that fails to comply with an injunction faces criminal punishment (contempt of court) or civil penalties.
Korean Lii is Wikipedia-like site for South Korean laws. It's trustworthiness is questionable. Still, its admins are law experts.
Park Won Il, former professor of Law School of Kyunghee University
Choi Seung Hwan, professor of Law School of Kyunghee University
Song Woong Soon, Shin & Kim Law Firm.
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I mean let's think outside of kpop, cuz the rules which apply to contractual relationship are the same one that apply to any contract in korea
let's say your a big company who hire a company construction to create let's say a big road to connect the north and the south of the country
you carried out a study and it says that it would need approximatively 6 years to finish it
so you make a contract of 7 years, thinking if there's a problem i have 1 more year at least in the contract
so you hire a company construction, you paid Billions of dollars for their material to make your project
But hey your company construction wants to terminate their contract after 2 years because they find another project that they prefer to do.
and thank god for them there's a clause in the contract which said that in case they want to leave the contract after 2 years, they will just have to pay 1K dollar to get out of the contract
thank god for them 1K is not much for them they can easily pay them
Great for you you just have a deficit of 999K dollar, a project unfinished, no company to realize your project
and there's no other company around you specialize in this type of project
If Korea legal modify their reglementation, they'll have to change the basic principle which officer in contractual relationship in every area not just in kpop
and in this case do you see the big impact and harm it would make to the legal security of the contractual system in korea.
it's too dangerous and it leaves too much room for abuse
I think people need to understand that in a legal system, there's not rules applying to kpop and rules applying to other contract
contractual relationship is something general
Something like that did happen. A hired B to develop an app, estimated time for the project was 2 years. A rented a good office for 2 years, gave B a big sum so B could hire a team of staff and, bought new office facilities and fancy computers for B and team. However, after a year, B quit and there was no penalty fee in the contract. How devastating it was on A's part?
Display Morelike i was saying if the law say " contract can't last more than 3 years" like some people would want
Korea would have to redo their entire civil law in term of contract and explain a reason to why they derogate to the biggest principel in contractual relationship, freedom of the content of the contract
and it would create such a big mess in general with people in other contractual relationship outside of Kpop who would complain about not having the same rights
and it would be a big jab to the concept of legal security
I know from an emotional point of view yes we would all want this
but as someone in the law area, just thinking about all the impact it would have on the legal security of the legal system in korea, and the impact it would have on all the other contracts outside of kpop companies
it would be so delusional and naive to think that it's possible
on a legal point of view i actually think 7 years is a good term for a contract cuz you don't necessarily know if the contract will be rentable in its 2-3 years, you won't make a profit and you'll mostly lose money
7 years is not too long but also long enough to be able to make your product rentable if it fail in its first year and get back the money you invested during all these years
Actually, this is doable legal wise. There are already "specific contract" laws such as insurance, sale, mortgage etc. Besides, South Korea already somewhat has it done.
Fair Trade Commission has set the guideline that an artist management contract cannot longer than 7 years. The guideline itself has no enforcement authority yet, the artist can use the guideline as the reference to sue of "unfair contract" to leave after 7 years.
From business standpoint, the standard duration can be shortened too. Many 2nd gen groups signed 5 years first contracts. Anyway, anywhere shorter than 5 years is not rational commercial wise. A large ratio of groups take 3 years to reach break-even point and the company needs that 2 more years to make profit and keep the business running.
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The injunction is on independent activity. They cannot operate in the entertainment industry outside of ADOR.
That does not equate to they have to go back to ADOR.
The concert is already scheduled and it is so soon after the ruling that to prevent damage to fans they'll go through with it as NewJeans. This may yet prove to be the exception to the rule.
The court did not put an injunction on not living their life accordingly to ADOR's instruction in general. They don't have to go back. They just can't work as public figures a where else.
Yet, as the court ruled the contract still was effective, there could be some repercussion not working for Ador.
I can see Ador deliberately set them up in even greater debt by scheduling them to work a multi billions won project knowingly they would decline so Ador could levy estimated income from the project on them as damage fee.
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I've read enough various articles to understand roughly what is going on and what went down in court but questions still remain:
1. an injunction to my knowledge prevents someone from doing something and in this case it prevents NJZ members from undertaking independent activities (unless with Ador's consent) but does it create any positive requirements for NJZ to do something - ie. do they have to comply with (within reason) Ador's request to do things - cfs? variety shows? new music? dance/singing practices?
2. What does a (potential?) breach of the injunction mean? damages? penalties? parties go back to court? does it rise to contempt of court? how is the injunction enforced and against whom? obviously the ruling doesn't bind third parties right?
3. what of obligations that NJZ entered into post termination - do NJZ have to comply with those? or only with Ador's permission? does that mean NJZ must give and allow Ador to see and view those contracts? does that allow Ador to find out who produced/wrote NJZ new music - also who owns such music? NJZ? ador? someone else? is it only a monetary question? Can ador request NJZ provide all details of every activity independently undertaken by NJZ during the limbo period?
4. what of NJZ's social media and stuff - are they prevented from using/posting under NJZ and jeanzforfree?
5. what does an appeal entail? does it mean that the injunction is still enforce until the appeal is decided? how is the appeal to be decided concurrently with the actual court case set for April 4? what if NJZ win the appeal - what does that mean like NJZ was allowed to undertake independent activities all along?
so many questions that probably don't have simple answers...
I have no knowledge of Korean law specific thus, I will talk in general universal concept
1. the court outright ruled the contract was still effective until the final verdict said otherwise. So, they definitely have to go back to Ador.
2. Injunction violation may be deemed a "contempt of court" and the penalty for this can be
- fine
- community service
- few weeks of house arrest
Ador may plead to the court so the court may impose additional order to control NJ such as limiting their legal capacities.
Usually, the injunction does not bind the third party still, now that the whole South Korea must have been informed of the injunction, any third party signing with them behind Ador's back may be deemed acting in "bad faith" and the contract is null.
3. Once the court rules the contract is terminated, it will set the date of termination effect backward to the day of lawsuit filing. Everything they did independently from the start of the lawsuit will be justified. That being said, I don't believe one bit that the court will rule in favor of NJ, the contract won't be terminated.
4. Their contracts with Ador is "exclusive" so...
5. Yes. The injunction is effective until
- the court formally changes its mind or,
- the case is finalized.
If the injunction is revoked, NJ is free to do whatever. Yet, if they lose the main case, they sill are liable to damage fee to Ador.
For me anyone who wants to leave, should be able to leave. That’s why I side with NJZ. Billion dollar companies shouldn’t be able to “own” ppl this way.
A problem to this narrative is that millions worth of investment involves. The penalty fee is needed or the whole idol industry collapses but, it should be in reasonable price.
The biggest flaw of NJ's lawsuit is that the case roots on irrelevant third parties. This is a case between "Newjeans" and "Ador". Hybe, Source Music, Belift Lab and Min Heejin are outsiders. What they have done and what have happened to them is irrelevant in the eye of law.
This is all just PR for NJZ comeback--what better marketing is there than the SK courts?
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I wouldn’t call it a sarong tho. It is a traditional Thai skirt and blouse set.
Sarong is not exactly skirt. It's uncut whole piece of cloth you wrap around your waist. The blouse is something else and nothing to do with Thai tradition.
Does anyone know if this type of floral design is authentic or has a specific name? Or if the triangular shaped centerpiece has a meaning? It seems kind of familiar, especially the red jewels on either side, and now I'm wondering where I might have encountered the design before. I had a cursory look but couldn't find anything helpful.
Floral hairdress likely is inspired by Apsara bas-relief from Angkor Wat. Lisa came from lower North-East, proud of Angkor cultural heritage. She likely deliberately mixed Angkor and Ayuthaya cultures.
This is my first time seeing the triangular ornament thus, I'm totally clueless on it. However, small discs by its sides look alike "pinjong" (umbrella hairpin) from Lanna.
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Narrow-minded ignorance much? My country become food powerhouse only thanks to all expats.
We could not invent Massaman without the Persian. We could not invent Khaosoi without the Hui. We could not invent Padthai without the Han. You name a famous dish from my country and some foreign culture took parts in its conception.
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what do you mean not this shit again?
what is the criteria for determining whether an entertainment company is mismanaging their groups if not for the artist themselves? we as fans certainly have different expectations that might not always align with what the idols themselves want
I will concede that for most idols they don't have the power to call out potential issues of mismanagement should it occur but that's the very nature of the business they got themselves in
you raise BP - they are one of the biggest GG in kpop and therefore they have way more power to determine their own careers far better than the average idol and if they were unhappy with YGE I'm pretty sure we would have heard about it
the question is with all the gigs and non-music releases - the question for the members is - were they happy with the careers as BP whilst under YGE? Since to me the only persons who can answer such questions is the members themselves
One basic question is - if efficiency + effectiveness required to judge a good management.
Efficiency means the idol is used to maximum of her potential. Effectiveness is whether the group is popular. Does Meovv check these boxes?
Do you seriously believe there are idols not wanting to be popular? Some may say "It's ok to be not popular if ..." but, that clearly mere a compromise. Still, they want to be popular. That's a usual psychological desire.
And, it's a very common perception that an idol group should hold 2 promotion cycles years at bare minimum unless the group has been established. Everyone within the industry believes in this, idols believe in this. Karina did say she feared her group might be buried taking long break. Karina with S.M behind her back was worried. Who the heck TBL is for its idols to be more confident than Karina? Do you think Teddy possessed them like Min Heejin did to Newjeans?
"That the very nature of", what a shitty leniency is this? It's a very nature of politicians to be corrupted so, just give up? Not trying to support the least vicious politician in the run? Just watch them funding more gain-of-function researches and wait for deadlier variant of COVID? It's very nature of idol industry to neglect idols' health so, just shrug it off when the idol is urged to take harmful diet?
Have it never come across your mind that Lisa even keeping a distance from K-pop speaks louder than words? Has not her action already answered if she was happy with YGE and K-pop industry as the whole?
This looks alike clownery.
