Korea has abandoned Ive like they did to Twice? Their song is not charting

If Off the Record doesnt hit #1 on Melon Weekly, i will have to do a thread i desperately dont want to

The public isn't used to the different release time. I mean it's Friday release, It's expected. It looks like Starship trying different things with IVE this era. The songs will rise much later once they promo.

its a Friday release tho

Is it flopping more than "I want that"?

I beg to differ

I am is still the most succesful song from 2023

Kitsch - Melon Peak #1, 496,449 ULs

Either Way - Melon Peak #13, ~125,000 ULs

Both pre-release title tracks released on Monday. Difference = 375,000 ULs

They weren't abandoned. The truth is, it was always sajaegi. It is not organically possible and you don't drop or jump by 75% or 375,000 ULs if it wasn't.

Honestly I do even know what they are thinking, unless they have finally realised Korea doesn't matter, which it doesn't, and will use all the sajaegi budget for radio play and spotify playlisting in the US.

But it makes it so blatantly obvious they sajaegied.

Why a friday release at 1 pm kst? bts, blackpink, twice and other groups aiming for western and global charts do it to get full week and aim higher on those charts, this is clearly aiming for korea so what's the purpose of this one? Their company is making errors at jyp level lol.

they had the perfect opportunity to become the queens of the glamorous, elegant and luxurious concepts with visually impressive music videos, very similar of what izone did most of the time but kakao throw it away because hybe's newjeans massive success, big error i'm afraid. They have this era last title track and at most 2 or 3 comebacks to get it in the right lane again EVEN if their next week title track charts at #1 with this kind of concept.

Ive dont need to fight newjeans like this, it will be hard to compete with hybe massive budget, industry connections and wide audience (mostly armys) and their company needs to be smarter if they dont want to fall not only below newjeans but the other 2 or 3 top 4th gen girl groups very close to them.

Your sajaegied dude yourself

Quote from randkpopstan

they had the perfect opportunity to become the queens of the glamorous, elegant and luxurious concepts with visually impressive music videos, very similar of what izone did most of the time but kakao throw it away because hybe's newjeans massive success, big error i'm afraid. They have this era last title track and at most 2 or 3 comebacks to get it in the right lane again EVEN if their next week title track charts at #1 with this kind of concept.

relax, it's not like they can release the same song over and over again and also succeed. a change can still be a smart move

What is even kakao plan for ive after wonyoung is not the top young visual everyone is talking about all day anymore in 3 or 4 years because some new younger visual will take that place and they cant "help" them to get #1 every comeback because kakao will need to redirect that "help" into a new group? Right now they have a laughable world tour with 4 dates in 1 city on korea and 1 in japan, a debut in japan that flopped hard on charts and there is really nothing else in the near future, i thought this company was better than this.

By the way watched their japan debut and damn we get it kakao those 6 girls faces are visually outstanding, so so beautiful, you dont need to make a close-up and extreme close-up of their faces every 2 seconds for 3 minutes, you will not conquer japan like that.

What's with these comparisons with New Jeans? I don't think these new IVE songs sound close to anything NJs have released lol

Quote from KpopJop

relax, it's not like they can release the same song over and over again and also succeed. a change can still be a smart move

We have blackpink as the perfect example that you absolutely CAN do that, although they would need to starve their fans with long periods without music to pull that off. Ive still had like 2 or 3 variations of after like before a risky change but whatever, I'm not even their fan so don't worry I'm very relaxed, just my 2 cents.

Quote from randkpopstan

We have blackpink as the perfect example that you absolutely CAN do that, although they would need to starve their fans with long periods without music to pull that off.

blackpink can, IVE can't, i was being specific not general

Quote from Onewbias

What's with these comparisons with New Jeans? I don't think these new IVE songs sound close to anything NJs have released lol

The comparison is often made because SS/IVE releasing 3 title tracks which is what Newjeans did for debut and Get Up.

But let's be real, the GG that made this strategy popular is not even NJ, it is 2NE1 and BP subsequently. YG company wise cause all their groups do multi-title tracks all the time

Quote from gerrard174

The comparison is often made because SS/IVE releasing 3 title tracks which is what Newjeans did for debut and Get Up.

But let's be real, the GG that made this strategy popular is not even NJ, it is 2NE1 and BP subsequently. YG company wise cause all their groups do multi-title tracks all the time

Mamamoo did this as well.

Quote from gerrard174

But let's be real, the GG that made this strategy popular is not even NJ, it is 2NE1 and BP subsequently. YG company wise cause all their groups do multi-title tracks all the time

This is fundamentally false. During the decade spanning since 2ne1 came into existence and then bp debuted, only 3 other top ggs started to adopt this “pre-release” strategy (rv’s automatic, mamamoo’s i miss you/paint me/dinga dinga, gidle’s i’m your fan/my bag), and even then, it was more a novelty soft launch on rv’s part and they never considered it again for any future releases. In more than 10 years, a whopping number of 2 top ggs sporadically and not always seriously adopting this strategy at random times does not spell a popular promotion tactic, at all.

Yg’s groups might have pioneered this practice, but they did not make it popular. People seem to confuse these two notions all the time when there’s a big difference between them. You look at ive, aespa, nmixx, itzy now, and it’s quite obvious they only picked up this strategy right after nj hit it out of the park not once but twice with their double/triple-feature combos. The timing is just too uncanny lol. Those ggs had had ample time with multiple cbs before nj’s debut to do it, but they didn’t. Yg’s groups and even some sm or jyp bgs might’ve adopted it earlier than nj, but they certainly aren’t what the top ggs looked at to decide to start trying it out for themselves. Whether one’s a fan of nj or not, it’s quite willfully ignorant to deny the impact nj has left in the industry in this regard at least.

I respect Starship for taking risks and trying out a new strategy for potentially greater impact, because there is an obvious bridge to gap between IVE's popularity in Korea versus their popularity in the West, but I don't know about this one.

To be fair, it doesn't help that the release schedule was during Chuseok holiday. Not to mention there are no music shows for two weeks that could be used to promote.

But if they wanted to go the NewJeans route of not only multiple promoted title tracks but a Friday release as well, they needed to go BIG if they wanted anywhere close to the same results.

As things stand now, they might not hit #1 on the domestic charts (that might actually be Jennie or one of the other soloists releasing songs this month--I believe in you, Wheein!) while also not bridging that aforementioned gap in the West.

When NewJeans sacrificed ideal timing for a domestic release, their payoff was arguably the most successful girl group album ever on Billboard/Spotify if you look at streams and physical album sales.

Maybe now there won't be so much vocal outcry when I put NewJeans in their own tier amongst their peers. Because they are.

Maybe? Are we going to pretend that Ive's next song will sound exactly like this one and we know exactly what to expect from them?

Quote from YamaChwan

When NewJeans sacrificed ideal timing for a domestic release, their payoff was arguably the most successful girl group album ever on Billboard/Spotify if you look at streams and physical album sales.

I assume you mean in 4th gen considering by most metrics Bornpink and The Album outperformed it in the west outside of first week sales.

This is good for people to shut up about NJ charting

Having hit with pre released title tracks outside Korean typical release window (Monday, 6 PM) is bounded to have poorer charting

Likewise, it's not an easy feat to have multiple hits on charts at the same time. There is a limit on public attention spam and if you pulverize it across multiple releases THEY WILL CHART WORSE NOT BETTER

It was never about NJ promoting all their songs, it was about NJ being fucking special and unique. Hope we can close this issue and move on

I think people prefer their upbeat pop songs

Quote from Bot7654

I assume you mean in 4th gen considering by most metrics Bornpink and The Album outperformed it in the west outside of first week sales.

I'll need to look at the numbers again, but Get Up also had the highest second week album sales in the history of the Billboard 200.

And it is the longest charting album in the Billboard 200 top 30. No girl group album has lasted 7 weeks or longer.

They also charted 3 songs on the Hot 100--Super Shy, ETA and Cool With You. Another girl group record.

Super Shy also charted in the Hot 100 and lasted 8 weeks, longer than any BP song outside of Ice Cream, which was a collab with Selena Gomez.

I need some numbers to show outperformance, because it didn't happen on Billboard Hot 100 or the Billboard 200.

Quote from Icaro_Ribeiro

public attention spam

this also describes me walking around Seoul and hearing endless NJ in public spaces this year

Quote from superyeah

Man, not this again...

"Off the Record" was released in "American time," meaning 9pm PT or 12am ET. It's geared towards western listeners.

The song itself resembles "Cupid" by FIFTY FIFTY. Koreans just don't like that sound because they don't understand it. For Americans, it's different. Americans love it because songs like "Cupid" by FIFTY FIFTY and "Kiss Me More" by Doja Cat, SZA have familiar vibes to the beloved classic "Lovefool" by The Cardigans.

Different sounds for different demographics. That's all there is to it.

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I’m American and don’t like it. Of course, I pretty much abandoned Western Music for K-pop a few years ago. 😀

Of course, I absolutely love “Either Way” though and a lot of people don’t based on charting.

IVE is known for having upbeat song and fun choreography. However, it was such a huge mistake for Starship to release 2 songs and called it as a title track, but have no choreography. This 2 songs worked very well as a promoted B-side with a MV.

Newjeans like Attention, Hype Boy and Cookie, have a choreography to called it as Title Track. There is basically no title track from them that have no choreography. Starship used the strategy wrong and releasing Friday 1 AM didn't help too when they aren't ready for the west. They haven't even distribute album to the west yet.

I hope Baddie actually have choreography, but can't expect anything from Starship this comeback.

Quote from wizone4life

Kpop group is known for having fun song and choreography. However, it was such a huge mistake for Starship to release 2 songs and called it as a title track, but have no choreography. This 2 songs worked very well as a promoted B-side with a MV, and this post won't exist.

is it confirmed to not have choreo??

gg stans such drama queens the song was released hours ago

Quote from YamaChwan

I'll need to look at the numbers again, but Get Up also had the highest second week album sales in the history of the Billboard 200.

And it is the longest charting album in the Billboard 200 top 30. No girl group album has lasted 7 weeks or longer.

They also charted 3 songs on the Hot 100--Super Shy, ETA and Cool With You. Another girl group record.

Super Shy also charted in the Hot 100 and lasted 8 weeks, longer than any BP song outside of Ice Cream, which was a collab with Selena Gomez.

I need some numbers to show outperformance, because it didn't happen on Billboard Hot 100 or the Billboard 200.

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NewJeans is strong in their physical sales, potentially in longevity which I will watch for, but outside of that by most metrics BP is still the clear leader for the music.


The Album had 26 weeks on the BB200. Most units sold of any Korean girl group with over a million at this point. It's impossible to know how many of that is physical unfortunately. We don't know how many weeks Get Up will do yet, so you can bookmark this and we can continue this 4 months from now.
The three singles that charted from The Album on the Hot100 was the first time a girl group charted two songs simultaneously, and the first time to have multiple songs chart. Like NewJeans they had three songs from the same album chart, all at higher positions overall. The tracks charted 11 weeks on the Hot100 combined, more than Get Up's 10. Also holding the record for number of weeks in the Hot100 top 40, the only girl group to even reach it (with 5 separate songs, two of which were on The Album).
Ice Cream still holds the peak for a KGG on the Hot 100 at number 13 (Not NJ obv, but Cupid got close).



Born Pink
Shut Down and Pink Venom charted in the top 25 of the Hot100. NewJeans sits at the bottom half of the chart and hasn't had any considerable peak for any of their songs yet, which is probably the most obvious thing to improve on when looking at chart positions for the music. NJ managed one week in the top 50 in their career, with Supershy at number 48. Nearly half of their weeks on the Hot100 are between 90-100 on the chart.

Shut Down and Pink Venom charted on Billboard's Overall Streaming Chart(You can check it on billboards website, they have a lovely artist section with the peak charts positions and number of weeks charting), measuring all US streaming and not just Spotify, for 5 combined weeks, at higher positions than Super Shy. It's the most difficult chart for Kpop groups to chart on as only BTS and BP have done it with multiple songs for multiple weeks. Only Super Shy was able to make the overall streaming chart in NewJeans career with two weeks. This alone shows that BP still can't be challenged overall in the US yet when it comes to streams and chart position of the music.
NewJeans strength on Spotify is partially due to less strength (I won't say weakness) on other services.


I'm not saying NJ is weak but saying Get Up was the most successful album when it can easily, especially for the songs on the albums, be argued.

Quote from YamaChwan

I'll need to look at the numbers again, but Get Up also had the highest second week album sales in the history of the Billboard 200.

And it is the longest charting album in the Billboard 200 top 30. No girl group album has lasted 7 weeks or longer.

They also charted 3 songs on the Hot 100--Super Shy, ETA and Cool With You. Another girl group record.

Super Shy also charted in the Hot 100 and lasted 8 weeks, longer than any BP song outside of Ice Cream, which was a collab with Selena Gomez.

I need some numbers to show outperformance, because it didn't happen on Billboard Hot 100 or the Billboard 200.

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Just looking at this it's clear for the music.

Super Shy - 48 peak, 8 weeks
ETA - #81 for 1 week
Cool With You - #93 for 1 week
---
Ice Cream - #13, 8 weeks
How You Like That - #33, 2 weeks
Lovesick Girls #59 - 1 week
---
Pink Venmon - #22 - 6 weeks
Shut Down - #25 3 weeks

Quote from Bot7654

Just looking at this it's clear for the music.

Super Shy - 48 peak, 8 weeks
ETA - #81 for 1 week
Cool With You - #93 for 1 week
---
Ice Cream - #13, 8 weeks
How You Like That - #33, 2 weeks
Lovesick Girls #59 - 1 week
---
Pink Venmon - #22 - 6 weeks
Shut Down - #25 3 weeks

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What? How is it clear?

Ice Cream is a collab track with Selena Gomez. I guarantee if NJ did a collab track with a western artist, and it topped the Hot 100 people would bend over backwards trying to disqualify it. And both HYLT and Lovesick Girls didn't chart even half as long as Super Shy. BlackPink has also never charted 3 songs from the same album on the Hot 100.

And you completely ignored the fact NewJeans sold and are selling albums like hotcakes in the U.S.

Quote from YamaChwan

What? How is it clear?

Ice Cream is a collab track with Selena Gomez. I guarantee if NJ did a collab track with a western artist, and it topped the Hot 100 people would bend over backwards trying to disqualify it. And both HYLT and Lovesick Girls didn't chart even half as long as Super Shy. BlackPink has also never charted 3 songs from the same album on the Hot 100.

And you completely ignored the fact NewJeans sold and are selling albums like hotcakes in the U.S.

It's very clear to anyone critically thinking.

Selena Gomez has like no fandom an the charting was more because Ariana wrote it more than anything if you want to find an excuse. Selena's singles before that song charted at number 77 and 59, lower than what BP was doing before that. Ice Cream still did 8 weeks and HYLT did 2 weeks. Get Up couldn't manage a second song to last more than one week at the bottom of the chart. The three songs on The Album charted combined longer than Get Up's did. At much higher positions overall(and therefore much more consumed).
The Album charted three songs very close together. We have no way to compare since BP never did 3 songs at once but considering their songs do better on the charts, it wouldn't be close. Again though, just a hypothetical. What time the singles are released is irrelevant.


I didn't ignore they are selling albums well, I acknowledged it, but it's early to see how many units they do. See if they can reach a million like the Album did. Or If they can reach the 51 weeks on the album sales chart like The Album did, if you want to ignore streaming. Because no one is going to compare week by week what position each album is at, and that data is difficult to find. Like I said, see you in like 4 months (for the 26 weeks on the BB200) or in like 9 months (for the 51 weeks on the Album Sales chart)


You mostly ignored that NewJeans is being destroyed in both chart positions and streaming, people actually listening in the US, so there is that.

Quote from Bot7654

It's very clear to anyone critically thinking.

Selena Gomez has like no fandom an the charting was more because Ariana wrote it more than anything if you want to find an excuse. Selena's singles before that song charted at number 77 and 59, lower than what BP was doing before that.

While I agree Selena is no Ariana, she had a number one hit a couple of months before, Lose You to Love Me. The songs you are calling to have charted poor was just a remix and the last (4th) single of her "Rare" album, so it's by no means representative of her popularity

Only an idiot would think Ice Cream peak was not thanks to Selena when it clearly outcharted all other BP songs, but it's not even the 15th biggest Selena single in USA.

Quote from Bot7654

It's very clear to anyone critically thinking.

Stopped reading there. You're not very intelligent if you need to pathetically attempt to insult mine to make your pretentious point.

The facts are that nobody counts collaboration singles the same as a single released by just one artist.

Period. The rules don't change for BlackPink.

Nicki Minaj had a Hot 100 #1 before Cardi B, but Cardi B got all the accolades for being the first female rapper to top the Hot 100, because Nicki's single was a collaboration.

That's how it works. I'm not going to see here and listen to someone try to argue Selena Gomez is nugu in the states to try to downplay her impact on the performance of Ice Cream.

The facts remain:

Get Up is the first girl group album to chart 3 songs simultaneously on the Hot 100, as published by Billboard itself.

Super Shy lasted longer on the Hot 100 than any BP song other than their collab single with Selena Gomez, which it tied at 8 weeks.

Get Up is on pace to sell more units in the U.S. than any girl group album ever, hitting #1 on the Billboard 200 at debut and still in the top 40 after 8 weeks (another record).

There is nothing wrong with my original statement, and I'm not budging on it, so you can proceed with whatever it is you're hoping to accomplish here but it's going to be a waste of your time, especially if you can't correct your tone when communicating with me.