Unpopular/Popular opinions about 4th gen groups

    1. Starship need to promote and push Ive globally to secure their top position. They're the best in Korea now but we all know that Kchart and gp support are very fickle. Their sales development are the worst among the current top 5 and Gidle surpassing their sales number never really in my book. But look what happen now.


    2. Unforgiven is such a weak album. Weak tittle tracks, weak choreography and weak bside if we compare with their previous albums including Fearless.

    Addition: Please anyone in that Hybe building help Kazuha and Eunchae with their vocals especially Kazuha. She was mostly talking in her part not singing or rapping, what a waste of potential.


    3. Aespa might rose to the top 2 in Korea if SM continues to promote them like this. This comeback promotion give them a lot of buzz and they're trending daily in Korea since their promotion started.


    4. Jyp are never good in managing their girl groups. They're just very lucky with Twice. Nmixx and Itzy are both poorly managed and poorly designed group. They look quite confident with Itzy at the beginning with their concept and everything but when SM debuting Aespa and the group get a lot of attention, Jyp were in panic attack. Itzy's performance and quality dropped since then because they were trying to make the group follow the trend. Jype debuting Nmixx quickly to hop in the trend but sadly the community already move on from it.


    5. Newjeans popularity and fandom is still very unstable now. They don't really have big fandom but a huge amount of curious followers. Hybe/Ador need to make something to turn that followers into their real fans. They need to push at least one of the member too as their visual or representative like Karina, Wonyoung, Soyeon and Kazuha. Currently, none of their members has big presence in Korea even with their huge popularity as a group.

    Professional music reviews like izm gave unforgiven worse critics than antifragile or fearless. Despite them not getin that good critics either. 😭

  • AllKill VIP
    Quote from Flovell

    Unforgiven is such a weak album. Weak tittle tracks, weak choreography and weak bside if we compare with their previous albums including Fearless.

    tbh i agree with this


    Fearless was just full of bops, every bside had a lot of replay value


    antifragile had Impurities, no celestial which were both really strong bdsides


    but Unforgiven only had eve & psyche as a standout bside for me personnally


    and i agree that the choregraphy for Unforgiven was really really weak especially the chorus dance

    it's not as fun than fearless or antifragile choreo

    I think IVE lower sales are contributed by

    1) This is a full album, previous 3 are single album. This album is more expensive


    2) absence of Rei impede their ability to do more fansign events. This comeback, they have very little video call and fansign events (less than Love Dive and After Like). Believe it or not, these events are really the big driver of sales (see NMIXX case)

    Quote from Flovell

    2. Unforgiven is such a weak album. Weak tittle tracks, weak choreography and weak bside if we compare with their previous albums including Fearless.

    honestly i agree with you a bit as a diehard fearnot. while this album was good, it wasn't as good as their previous albums and the title track was def underwhelming. howver i disagree with the choreography. i mean, personally, i love their choreo as it's just so fun and just looks good. i wouldn't say its "weak", maybe average.


    and the reason why unforgiven wasn't as good, was becuase clearly hybe has a diff view for lesserafim. the girls are performers and even if their songs aren't upto expectation, their performances will make it 100x better. this is why even tho the songs in this album aren't good, when you see their live stages and performances, you can see why they might have picked those paticular songs.

  • AllKill VIP
    Quote from gerrard174

    I think IVE lower sales are contributed by

    1) This is a full album, previous 3 are single album. This album is more expensive

    actually kpop fans are more encline to go full out for a kpop group album

    especially if it's the first one,

    full album are usually where kpop fans put all their money to try to break the most record

    especially if it's a group first full album


    so i get it why it's weird that they did the same sales in 1st week with after like and I AM for people

    For IVE


    Previous comeback After LIKE 1st Week Sales (Hanteo): 924,363 copies sold



    Recent comeback I've IVE 1st Week Sales (Hanteo): 1,102,107 copies sold

    1st Month Sales (Circle): 1,522,403 copies sold

    Total Sales in South Korea (Circle): 1,557,396 copies sold [as at May 18]


    koreansalestwt



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    For reasons I mentioned above.


    I agree that fans will usually go all out for full albums but given their young target market (unlike BP which has more fans from 2016) Even if fans want to bulk buy, the albums are expensive af + heavy (they have two photobooks in each album for god sake).

    side note: The inclusions are terrible as well - 1 photocard +1 film photo + 1 poster. BP were giving 1 photocards + 2 polaroids on top of postcards. Having said so, the same could be said about LRSF - pricey album with little inclusions (seems to be norm for HYBE group ex NJWS)

  • AllKill VIP
    Quote from gerrard174

    For reasons I mentioned above.


    I agree that fans will usually go all out for full albums but given their young target market (unlike BP which has more fans from 2016) Even if fans want to bulk buy, the albums are expensive af + heavy (they have two photobooks in each album for god sake).

    side note: The inclusions are terrible as well - 1 photocard +1 film photo + 1 poster. BP were giving 1 photocards + 2 polaroids on top of postcards. Having said so, the same could be said about LRSF - pricey album with little inclusions (seems to be norm for HYBE group ex NJWS)

    I don't know

    another possibility is that ive must have a lot of casual stan or multifandom stan

    and with IVE coming back so close to all these big gg too

    these fans must have prefered to keep their money for another group and just skip on the ive album this time

    Quote from gerrard174

    I think IVE lower sales are contributed by

    1) This is a full album, previous 3 are single album. This album is more expensive


    2) absence of Rei impede their ability to do more fansign events. This comeback, they have very little video call and fansign events (less than Love Dive and After Like). Believe it or not, these events are really the big driver of sales (see NMIXX case)

    The point number one kinda weird because I have never seen any groups sales declined or stagnant when they released a full album. Fans are mostly more all out for full album than a single release.


    The point number two didn't make sense too. Ive has about 15 (more or less a bit) fansign and video call event for this cb and they have about 14 or 15 event too for After like promotion if I not mistaken.

    (I follow all Izone members schedule closely)

    Quote from blossom9990

    The point number one kinda weird because I have never seen any groups sales declined or stagnant when they released a full album. Fans are mostly more all out for full album than a single release.


    The point number two didn't make sense too. Ive has about 15 (more or less a bit) fansign and video call event for this cb and they have about 14 or 15 event too for After like promotion if I not mistaken.

    (I follow all Izone members schedule closely)


    Quote from gerrard174

    I think IVE lower sales are contributed by

    1) This is a full album, previous 3 are single album. This album is more expensive


    2) absence of Rei impede their ability to do more fansign events. This comeback, they have very little video call and fansign events (less than Love Dive and After Like). Believe it or not, these events are really the big driver of sales (see NMIXX case)

    I don't think it's "sales declined" or "lower sales" as


    After LIKE 1st Week Sales was 924,363


    I've IVE 1st Week Sales was 1,102,107




    I've IVE Sales in South Korea (Circle): 1,557,396 copies sold

    Refer to: koreansales site

    Quote from Flovell

    3. Aespa might rose to the top 2 in Korea if SM continues to promote them like this. This comeback promotion give them a lot of buzz and they're trending daily in Korea since their promotion started.

    I posted it in another thread but do we have Kakao to thank for this? Or just LSM being gone. Maybe a bit of both, I'm convinced LSM was the main issue here. It's like they did a full 180 and gave fans exactly what they have been always asking for: tons of promotion and live singing.


    It's a bit too convenient of a coincidence that their promotions strategy suddenly changed to exactly resemble IVEs right after the Kakao acquisition. Maybe the evil Kakao overlords had enough of their shit and did what needed to be done.


    But this really goes to show how SM was clueless and the fans were always right: aespa is their top act and the company failed horrendously going for some kind of Blackpink-style promotion strategy. Here's to hoping the comeback FREQUENCY will be fixed now too and that we get another comeback this year.


    I completely agree with the point as well, for these May comebacks aespa is the clear "winner" as they far exceeded what people expected from them. They might be the top contender now to shake the throne occupied by NJ and IVE currently. All it takes is a Next Level-tier song next comeback and they will be back at the very top.

    ^ it is the slower sales growth, compared to the all other groups who are still growing quickly.


    Once you peak in the market you won't grow that much there anymore, and you need to expand in other (i.e. overseas) markets. All the other groups are still growing quickly. i.e. selling heaps more albums than the last release, but Ive growth has slowed.


    It is most likely several factors, one of which is concept.


    Hanteo is different to Circle. You cannot compare both.

    is this bad? , a million seller for ive is already dream come true, i think the reason starship never post the preorder is because they know album sales is not their thing, ive is kinda anomaly for them, and from i look it, they probably spread the sales in a month than stack it in first week

    Quote from K-PL

    Hanteo is different to Circle. You cannot compare both.

    The link I posted used Hanteo for 1st Week Sales


    After LIKE 1st Week Sales (Hanteo): 924,363 copies sold


    I've IVE 1st Week Sales (Hanteo): 1,102,107 copies sold



    Edit: per the link, they only used the Circle chart for 1 month sales and later:


    "I've IVE Sales in South Korea (Circle): 1,557,396 copies sold"

  • AllKill VIP
    Quote from trollacc

    I posted it in another thread but do we have Kakao to thank for this? Or just LSM being gone

    I think more the second option

    more promotions and content for fans was one of the biggest point announce in the SM 3.0 plan

    but LSM was a problem to the good development of the SM3.0 strategy, because he had another vision for SM



    Quote from trollacc

    It's like they did a full 180 and gave fans exactly what they have been always asking for: tons of promotion and live singing

    actually it's LSM who always opt for lipsync because he wanted idols to focus on the dance/performance side without having to care of singing during stage



    none of the thing happening to aespa right now doesn't have anything to do with Kakao

    the whole battle between kakao vs hybe just happen to unfold when SM was transitionning into the SM 3.0 strategy


    but with or without kakao or Hybe, i think it would have been like this

    groups that debuted in 2018 shouldn't be considered 4th generation


    groups lilke Gidle and the boyz give more 3rd gen vibes, latata sounds like a song that bp could have released.

    kpop was the biggest in 2018 no group that debuted then made any noise if anything 2019 is when there was a slight swift with dalla dalla that's when you can see a new gen started

    Quote from Flovell

    4. Jyp are never good in managing their girl groups. They're just very lucky with Twice. Nmixx and Itzy are both poorly managed and poorly designed group. They look quite confident with Itzy at the beginning with their concept and everything but when SM debuting Aespa and the group get a lot of attention, Jyp were in panic attack. Itzy's performance and quality dropped since then because they were trying to make the group follow the trend. Jype debuting Nmixx quickly to hop in the trend but sadly the community already move on from it.

    is it really jyp's management? or is it the music? both groups are active so i don't think it's management, unlike yg groups

  • AllKill VIP
    Quote from Baeboe

    is it really jyp's management? or is it the music? both groups are active so i don't think it's management, unlike yg groups

    exactly me

    i still don't understand what people are complaining exactly about jyp management


    JYP is giving to his gg what every gg do

    variety show, they do a lot lot lot of content on youtube for their gg more than any other gg

    and they are very very active on social media, with recurrent cb, all their gg comeback pretty much every 6-8 months


    i don't see where's the mismanagement so if someone can explain to me i would be happy to hear

    I think the mismanagement quoted by many is referring to lack of strategic direction. Like they dont know what to achieve with their group. Drastic flip flopping between concepts turned off some fans (e.g. ITZY) and blindly chasing trend (e.g. Mixxpop).


    Funny enough, people hated songs written by JYP for the groups but usually those songs are the ones turning into hits

    Quote from Flovell

    Newjeans popularity and fandom is still very unstable now. They don't really have big fandom but a huge amount of curious followers. Hybe/Ador need to make something to turn that followers into their real fans. They need to push at least one of the member too as their visual or representative like Karina, Wonyoung, Soyeon and Kazuha. Currently, none of their members has big presence in Korea even with their huge popularity as a group.

    I want to ask you something about this, while trying to find debate information for the "Newjeans is the most popular 4th gen girl group" thread I saw currently their last album has sold around 1 million in the first month, in South Korea (Circle chart). Would this not mean they have a big fandom already.

  • AllKill VIP
    Quote from gerrard174

    I think the mismanagement quoted by many is referring to lack of strategic direction. Like they dont know what to achieve with their group. Drastic flip flopping between concepts turned off some fans (e.g. ITZY) and blindly chasing trend (e.g. Mixxpop).


    Funny enough, people hated songs written by JYP for the groups but usually those songs are the ones turning into hits

    tbh i don't think it's really JYP fault neither


    because for example MITM flopped and everybody was asking JYP to just go back to the old itzy sound and work with galactika, it's what they did and it still flopped

    and people were still saying how jyp mismanage even if he listened to what the fandom and the fans wanted


    actually the only time he didn't listen to what fans wanted is for sneakers, when he gave to itzy a sketchers ad song that nobody wanted and it end up being the most succcessfull itzy song in years

    and when he decided to listen to fans and go back to a more itzy song like Cheshire it tanked

    Quote from Slayurfaves

    groups that debuted in 2018 shouldn't be considered 4th generation


    groups lilke Gidle and the boyz give more 3rd gen vibes, latata sounds like a song that bp could have released.

    kpop was the biggest in 2018 no group that debuted then made any noise if anything 2019 is when there was a slight swift with dalla dalla that's when you can see a new gen started

    What about group who'll debute this year? :melon_think:

  • AllKill VIP
    Quote from kingkook

    I agree with the points, especially the first one. IVE really need to start their global promotions asap if they want to grow their popularity further. They have already established themselves in Korea and just need to maintain that status for longevity.

    Like just by curiosity why would they want to focus on international ?


    they are doing decently well internationally

    and focusing on korea they will be sure to have a longer longevity in kpop, even after IVE disband

    because the koreans public will remember seeing them on tv


    International popularity is so ephemere, for international fans kpop groups are just the new shiny toys


    Not even 1.5years people were calling itzy the biggest group internationally then in just few months people turn their back on them when they saw IVE doing a little bit better


    and now IVE is doing good but kpop fans saw NJ and Lsrf doing better internationally, it makes of IVE a group flopping internationally who need to promote there



    IVE isn't a group targeted to the western market that's the reason why they don't have any english speaker member

    Obviously for more album and concert ticket sales. They don't need to release an English track. Just some promotions like interviews and performances on big stages.

    𝐁𝐓𝐒 ♡ 𝐁𝐥𝐚𝐜𝐤𝐩𝐢𝐧𝐤 ♡ 𝐀𝐞𝐬𝐩𝐚

    27dbe724372b809813a823b7367393edb58cad57.gifv

    But.. Sneaker and Loco are typical ITZY sounds i.e. first 3 hits ITZY released.. notwithstanding the slander from international fans + the cheesiness/cringey lyrics, sneaker is actually in the same vibe/sound that made ITZY popular. It has that fun + teen crush vibe.


    Totally not surprised that MITM, Chesire flopped hard. MITM was a drastic change from teen crush to girl crush/badass concept, while Chesire despite being closer to their signature sound, its flopping is a direct result of inconsistent concept (fans were furious abour JYP goinf from Loco to Sneaker and back to Chesire?). Above just my two cents.


    ps: My interest in ITZY start to drop after WannaBe and halved when MITM is released. It slightly reignite with Loco and Sneaker but totally gone with Chesire...

    Quote from kingkook

    I agree with the points, especially the first one. IVE really need to start their global promotions asap if they want to grow their popularity further. They have already established themselves in Korea and just need to maintain that status for longevity.

    Personally think IVE would be better off holding their strong grip in Korea. There is potential they might end up like Wonder Girl.. or aespa during Girls era.

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