The current top 4th gen GGs in Korea are all from non-big3 companies. What does this say about the big3's supposed influence?

  • AllKill VIP

    You have IVE from Starship who bagged the biggest hit of the year, and came back with After Like which didn't do nearly as well but still did extremely good.

    GIDLE from CUBE with TOMBOY (2nd biggest hit of the year?) and NXDE which did great.

    NewJeans from HYBE/ADOR with 2 hits off the bat (maybe 3 if we're generous) & Ditto which is looking to be another hit to add to their already impressive collection.



    This might be the first time ever where none of the biggest GGs in Korea are from the big3. Are they starting to lose their influence? Do you think they've become too comfortable in their position (music & promo-wise)?

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  • AllKill VIP
  • AllKill VIP

    Pretty sure we had the same exact discussion when stayc came out with Asap and everybody was saying that the new top GG was a non big 3 GG


    same discussion we had when G-idle debut with Latata and everybody was saying that they were the next big thing before flopping after 1 or 2 comebacks


    Same discussion too when Sistar had good hits


    Same discussion you all had too when Gfriend was doing well and everybody was going around saying how big 3 are losing influence because a small agency GG was the next top GG


    But on the long run we all know how history ends after all these years mid size agency at one point fucked up they doesn't have the influence to get back on track most of the time and big agency come back on top


    And also Why NewJeans is in the discussion when Hybe have more influence than any other agency

    I can understand for starship and cube but Nj There are not the GG from a mid size agency some of you are trying to make them look like 😔

    i think the big 4 including hybe is widely accepted so there's that. but i do think the big 3 is lagging behind. jype is making terrible decisions with their girl groups. itzy would be the top 4th gen gg if they had better titles and now their direction is muddled. and idt i even need to say much about nmixx. yge is taking too long with their new gg and is missing the peak time to have a new gg out. and sm isn't doing enough for aespa. if the money is still flowing in they're not going to do much to change imo. but the tides are definitely shifting.

    well the main reason nmixx isnt doing well is because of their music and we know that. over ,50k people bought their albums without even knowing the content. sullyoon was named the visual of 4th gen. they were called the most talented. etc. but the audience is only stupid at some point. if u keep releasing unlistenable music at some point only the real fanatics will stay.

    itzy was very popular but declined because of their music too. people stop checking out at some poit because they already know what to expect.

    aespa, similar reason but at least they have the advantage of being unpredictable. they can bounce back anytime just like red velvet did several times in the past because at least sm try new stuff that make people check out. people seem to forget how much of a big hit next level was and they can replicate that in the future.

    g idle is doing well mostly because of soyeon, she is a genius imo. of course the other girls deserve their credit but without soyeon they would be just like clc. they need someone with strong vision, creativity and leadership to keep them in the game and that person is soyeon doing a splendid job.

    for ive, i won't deny they had a combination of factors that led them to big success but still it never was anywhere close to big4 privilege where you already have a lot of people rooting for you and wanting you to succeed and hype you regardless.

    lsf and ador success isnt mindblowing at all as they are the first hybe ggs and every other hybe group is successful.

    yg is yet to debut baemon, you can expect crazy numbers for them because they are doing the same strategy they did to bp replacing 2ne1 in the past.

    narcissistic, my god i love it

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    Quote from aclassyteaparty

    i think the big 4 including hybe is widely accepted so there's that. but i do think the big 3 is lagging behind. jype is making terrible decisions with their girl groups. itzy would be the top 4th gen gg if they had better titles and now their direction is muddled. and idt i even need to say much about nmixx. jype is taking too long with their new gg and is missing the peak time to have a new gg out. and sm isn't doing enough for aespa. if the money is still flowing in they're not going to do much to change imo. but the tides are definitely shifting.

    They've put out 3 girl groups in 4 years.


    JYPE are no longer capable of coming up with good title tracks or promoting with any vigour the girl groups they currently have so why would another one make a difference.


    JYPE's issue with their girl groups is quality of the product and adding another group isn't going to fix that, stretching resources and personnel even more.

  • AllKill VIP
    Quote from aclassyteaparty

    huh? i don't think anyone called stayc the top 4th gen gg seriously... asap wasn't even the biggest 4th gen hit at the time. pretty sure dalla dalla was still #1 at that time. now love dive, next level, hype boy and tomboy have pushed asap down much more

    Oh i can confirm that a lot of people were saying that they were the next top GG

    after itzy were declining, gidle were flopping, aespa just debuted and underperformed with BM

    There were a lot of people saying that it looked like stayC was the next Top 4th gen GG because Asap was doing great and the only 4th gen hit of the year and because BEP was behind them


    But it just proved my points that every time a new GG is doing decently well one year people jump to the conclusion that they are the next big thing without even waiting to see how it evolve on the long run


    And stayC is just one of the few example of the many times people thought mid size agency GG were going to end the domination of big GG but we all know all it always ends up on the long run

    Quote from stan12345

    They've put out 3 girl groups in 4 years.


    JYPE are no longer capable of coming up with good title tracks or promoting with any vigour the girl groups they currently have so why would another one make a difference.


    JYPE's issue with their girl groups is quality of the product and adding another group isn't going to fix that.

    typo... i meant yge lol

    this is funny bc aespa are still the biggest 4th gen girl group

    even while getting like 1/4 of the amount of promos all those gg you listed get and being mismanaged my SMent


    don't worry 2023 will be for aespa

  • AllKill VIP

    I mean everybody is calling Gidle the top GG like if they didn't spend 1-2 years doing flop after flops

    I'm sorry but it just luck soyeon have always produce for them but she already produce hits like she already produced flops


    The korean market is changing at a fast pace so who knows how long they'll stay behind which gg

    NJ AND ive are some solid GG because they didn't have any flops yet

    But Gidle is a wild card who can flop at any moment


    And i find weird now that they are doing well people are suddenly praising Soyeon as a genius like she's the new coming of god who can't flop as if history didn't prove us the contrary

    I love her but let's not act like it's sure that she can always deliver successfull songs after successfull songs

  • AllKill VIP
    Quote from SooYoung

    Pretty sure we had the same exact discussion when stayc came out with Asap and everybody was saying that the new top GG was a non big 3 GG


    same discussion we had when G-idle debut with Latata and everybody was saying that they were the next big thing before flopping after 1 or 2 comebacks

    This doesn't even make sense because neither Latata or ASAP were nearly as big as the likes of Love Dive or Tomboy. & all of the groups I've mentioned have showed to be more consistent than STAYC or early-GIDLE. It's gonna take alot of f*cking up for them to lose relevancy like Gfriend


    And for every STAYC, SISTAR, GFRIEND, etc we had there was always a big3 GG ruling alongside them like aespa, SNSD, TWICE, etc. We don't really have that rn which is why I'm asking if they've become too comfortable in their position.

    agree on the Top 3 atm is not from big 3 IVE, Newjeans and G IDLE dominate 2022

    Are they starting to lose their influence?
    nope they still had big influence

    Do you think they've become too comfortable in their position (music & promo-wise)?
    yes they too comfortable especially JYP GG ITZY and NMIXX


    while same can be said for SM AESPA kwangya? so boring honestly
    and their veterans TWICE and Red Velvet music is underwelming
    which is understandable they no longer their top priority of their company


    then YG at the moment they don't had a rookie GG
    they had BP releasing same formula/concept Girl Crush how great they are w hip hop noise music

    compared to their 2016-2017 song which is miles better

    look soyeon isnt a god that cant do no wrong. but she knows what shes doing and thats very important. its like saying having gd in bigbang didnt make a difference to bigbang's success.

    soyeon may have flop songs in her career but you cant deny even their flop songs have a quality in it that you can attribute to her. even one of clc's best songs, no, was produced by her. i say she is unstoppable, not because she only produce hits because thats not true, but because she have a strong set of skills that can always take her far in the music industry.

    narcissistic, my god i love it

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  • AllKill VIP
    Quote from itiswhatitisss

    This doesn't even make sense because neither Latata or ASAP were nearly as big as the likes of Love Dive or Tomboy. & all of the groups I've mentioned have showed to be more consistent than STAYC or early-GIDLE. It's gonna take alot of f*cking up for them to lose relevancy like Gfriend


    And for every STAYC, SISTAR, GFRIEND, etc we had there was always a big3 GG ruling alongside them like aespa, SNSD, TWICE, etc. We don't really have that rn which is why I'm asking if they've become too comfortable in their position.

    And like i'm saying you are all so quick to judge like i said Nj and Ive are sure value because they never had any flops


    But gidle is a GG who is inconsistent in their career and i still consider them at the same level than aespa not above them

    next level is bigger than tomboy


    Nxude is To gidle what a savage was, a song doing very great in chart but falling quick, nxude is already #24 on melon when it was release just 2 months ago proving that nxude wasn't able to perform as well than tomboy already proving that gidle isn't as consistant than some of you are considering


    I would much more expect their next songs to have a real opinion about their true success because nxude just ride on gidle success after tomboy

    Just like savage just ride on Next level success



    And they aren't even able to compete in term of sales with other top GG yet


    So some of you are really quick to jump to conclusion

  • AllKill VIP
    Quote from catzi

    look soyeon isnt a god that cant do no wrong. but she knows what shes doing and thats very important. its like saying having gd in bigbang didnt make a difference to bigbang's success.

    soyeon may have flop songs in her career but you cant deny even their flop songs have a quality in it that you can attribute to her. even one of clc's best songs, no, was produced by her. i say she is unstoppable, not because she only produce hits because thats not true, but because she have a strong set of skills that can always take her far in the music industry.

    Oh i don't disagree with the fact that soyeon always release bops i always liked what gidle released until nxude

    My comment was more targetting to people thinking that because gidle have soyeon they can't flop and are sure to stay as consistent with her

    Which isn't true because we already saw that soyeon skills as producer isn't enough to carry them digitally

    And nxude already is losing momentum

  • AllKill VIP
    Quote from anti-hero

    I’m not ruling out aespa, they may have had a subpar year compared to their debut year, but they will come back with a vengeance. (Illusion is one of the best K-pop songs this year as a whole)

    Well to be honest i think people are trying to look down a little bit too much on aespa and make them looks as bigger flop than they were this year

    sure they didn't release a hits like they did with NL or savage


    Girls debuted in the Top 10 and stay there for weeks and left the top 100 just 3 weeks ago

    And had a bside chart in the top 20 and still in the top 100 till today


    While if you listen to how people talk about how the song perform you would think that they weren't even able to enter the top 50 and the song left the chart after 1 month

    I agree with you, people tend to exaggerate a lot when it comes to aespa. They are still undeniably one of the top groups.

  • AllKill VIP
    Quote from anti-hero

    I’m not ruling out aespa, they may have had a subpar year compared to their debut year, but they will come back with a vengeance. (Illusion is one of the best K-pop songs this year as a whole)

    Them being on Gallup despite having their songs doing just *decently* on charts (+ Illusion charting higher than some hits from the same time period like Sneakers) shows that they could definitely comeback with a bang if SM wanted to. I hope their comeback being postponed shows that SM is willing to listen to some of the criticism with their music, promo and content (Girls was one of my most streamed songs of the year but honestly isn't that good compared to previous cbs) and improve because they're definitely kinda being complacent rn

  • AllKill VIP

    Tbh imo the big-3 4th gen gg concept isn’t refreshing or interesting enough to get sustainable interest to get hooked on.


    For IVE or new jeans to obtain hits after hits shows a preference for a different concept. IVE with their izone elegance concept and new jeans y2k concept (that feels sth new).


    Sometimes the music and concept feels repetitive from the big-3. The charts tells us the story.

    Once (main), Blink & Fearnot

    Quote from SooYoung

    Nxude is To gidle what a savage was, a song doing very great in chart but falling quick, nxude is already #24 on melon when it was release just 2 months ago proving that nxude wasn't able to perform as well than tomboy already proving that gidle isn't as consistant than some of you are considering

    I agree but you're over-exaggerating, Nxde is #10 on Melon Daily, not #24

    Quote from SooYoung

    I mean everybody is calling Gidle the top GG like if they didn't spend 1-2 years doing flop after flops

    I'm sorry but it just luck soyeon have always produce for them but she already produce hits like she already produced flops

    Wasn't Dumdi Dumdi a hit tho ? Hwaa didn't perform that badly either, it had terrible longevity because of the scandal. Lion performed well too. I'd say only Senorita, Uh Oh and Oh my God could be called "flops", even tho Oh My God did well internationally

  • AllKill VIP

    First of all, isn’t NewJeans from HYBE, a big 4 company? They may be a sub label, but they’re still part of the parent and HYBE is not a medium sized company at all.


    I don’t know much about the popularity of groups overall nowadays since I don’t follow that sort of thing routinely. There’s very few groups that I am well informed about their public reception and popularity with gp. But what I can say is that this situation is probably happening because some of the other big companies that were known for their iconic girl groups aren’t trying so hard anymore. They have it all already, and are just repeating things over and over again instead of attempting to actually put effort into their ggs—good promos, fresh concepts, engaging music, etc. Their idols may be working hard, but the companies are simply slacking unlike the smaller sized ones who (mostly) are working harder to get their groups out there.

    It’s evident that a lot of the big companies are getting too comfortable with their position, and that may be one of the factors for this happening.

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    Edited once, last by bluetree ().

    It doesn't matter, in the media (never articles):and GP eyes lsfm, nj, enhypen, txt are all hybe groups and all the groups that debut under any hybe sublabel are BTS juniors, they all in the same golden spoon bag

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    u r m o m g a y

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    Girls didnt chart for weeks, it charted maybe 2 weeks and ilusion did chart bc it was promoted. People simply do comparison, aespa 2nd cmb after a song that pak underperform compared to let said Ive 2nd cmb that follow their streak of top5 hits. If whatever cmb Ive has after AL underperform people will make the same comparisons bc it will show inconsistency


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    i think you're the one that needs to do some homework. yes, hybe is a company. no, they're not a monopoly. jype sm and yge all have other sectors of business under them AND sublabels as well. hybe only stands out bc they acquired so many in a short period of time and their sublabels have highly successful artists. anyway most new groups under hybe like lesserafim and enhypen have hybe creative directors and producers. even newjeans for that matter because she is a hybe creative director that was given reign to start her own sublabel.


    all of this is to say, people need to stop acting like hybe is some sort of outlier and doesn't deserve to be in the ranks with your beloved big 3. because they're all the same.




    Quote from bluetree

    First of all, isn’t NewJeans from HYBE, a big3 company? They may be a sub label, but they’re still part of the parent and HYBE is not a medium sized company at all.


    I don’t know much about the popularity of groups overall nowadays since I don’t follow that sort of thing routinely. There’s very few groups that I am well informed about their public reception and popularity with gp. But what I can say is that this situation is probably happening because some of the other big companies that were known for their iconic girl groups aren’t trying so hard anymore. They have it all already, and are just repeating things over and over again instead of attempting to actually put effort into their ggs—good promos, fresh concepts, engaging music, etc. Their idols may be working hard, but the companies are simply slacking unlike the smaller sized ones who (mostly) are working harder to get their groups out there.

    It’s evident that a lot of the big companies are getting too comfortable with their position, and that may be one of the factors for this happening.

    hybe being big 3 is clearly highly contentious.

    It’s an interesting discussion but New Jeans is under Hybe. The Kakao argument for Ive is for another day but I think we see with the scandal that many of these labels dubbed small by Kpop fans are much much larger.”


    I think what people keep forgetting is that while Kpop fans are very worried about the charts as the ultimate metric of success, what Kpop companies report on in their sales reports at the end of the day isn’t how well the group charted but $$ from album sales, merch/CFs and tours. The big 3 are more focused on those aspects and from those respects, Itzy, NMIXX and aespa are doing extremely well.


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    From the company’s perspective, this list is the one that matters. The majority of this list are “flops” to hear it from many Kpop fans 🤣

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  • AllKill VIP

    Newjeans should not be included in this discussion. Having the Hybe privilege that is in fact the BTS privilege is bigger than any Big3 privilege. Min Heejin worked for SM for years with that.


    I prefer aespa to Newjeans but even before they both debuted, I knew that history was going to repeat itself and that the HYBE group would take over the SM group again because HYBE are the ones who truly know how to appeal to an universal audience.


    aespa is certainly not dead though. People tend to forget that they have for now the biggest 4th generation girl group fanbase.


    JYP latest releases don't really appeal to the general public and YGNGG does not even exist for now.

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