What's the end goal for JYPE pushing Twice west?

Well Twice might renew or not next year. I dont think they ever try to push Twice to the west. So with their renewal still up in the air, I said they are just trying now and they barely even started but you write an essay like they pushing the west market for years

I kinds agree. It's a huge mistake to treat your cash cow like a lab rat but it's twice we're talking about, every single time JYP pulled off his trademark shit management they pulled through and broke records. He's happy in his safety net and bad decisions.

It's truly phenomenal how the members sell out stuff and top popularity polls in sk and japan despite jyp's nine or none motto.

Who knows but you need to stop taking this so seriously. Like, sometimes(often actually) I also don't like how JYPE manages them but that doesn't mean I keep talking about it. TWICE are consistently releasing good music and earning millions with every album. That matters way more than a chart topping single.

My only answer to your question is, JYPE is simply jumping on the bandwagon. Kpop, as a whole, has grown so much in the past few years, it doesn't make sense to only focus on SK or Japan. TWICE tried, with having constant Monday releases but the GP doesn't care for them outside of their cute concept, as evident by FS/M&M/ICSM. Now everyone and their mama is targeting the West, JYPE's best shot is TWICE, who have the largest international presence among their groups and are a older group/established group so the risk isn't that big.

They are more popular than every other group promoting in the west other than two. You should ask then why other groups are promoting in the west first. Because twice is bigger than all of them.

Why won’t the third biggest kpop group in the west promote there. Silly question.

Personally I don't find a problem.

I don't think there's much room for TWICE to grow in Korea and Japan anymore. So they have to try somewhere else if they want to grow.

US success was always a thing JYP wanted. It’s not even a recent thing. This is a reoccurring story for him. Wonder Girls was his first attempt. After WGs failed, Miss A and Twice focused more on Asia. Twice’s success in Japan was great. JYP should be astonished and grateful. That’s the 2nd biggest market in the world, but BTS broke through in the US. That’s a good sign that maybe KPOP is ready to hit the US after all. THEN, BLACKPINK charts and start to gain momentum in the US. They beat Wonder Girls old records with almost zilch of the effort. (Of course, it wasn’t planned by YGE/YHS quite the opposite.) Now, it’s no longer just a failed dream. It’s possible. A kpop girl group is charting there and doing damn well. Now, everything is pointing to achieving that. TWICE doesn’t need the US but it’s extra cash flowing in (you can debate if it’s worth the decline in other markets) but it’s not just them. Stray Kidz and Itzy are obvious groups that appeal to the US market. Everything about the company these days is aiming for that success seen by BTS/BP in the US.

Quote from stan12345

They've done more western promo this year than Korean and are putting out an English single with all the usual tricks to get it to chart on Billboard. With the influence of Republic the More and more era was a mess. Twice don't fit the western market which is why they never got pushed there. They didn't fit it then and they don't fit it now.

Firstly I barely post anymore and the only reason I talk about it is because the change is becoming increasingly pervasive in everything they do. None of my favourite songs for Twice are their biggest singles so I don't care for that. Being bringing up relevance and success is purely down to the group/members needing that for longevity purposes.

This year they've put out Taste of Love which is one of their weakest minis and Perfect World which is below both BDZ and &Twice in terms of quality for me. I talk about it because it impacts nearly everything that matters with respect to following a musical act. I'm not following the group because I find their personalities refreshing or how they do loads of their own variety content.

The fact that you think Monday releases constitutes them trying doesn't make sense to me as the release day is probably near the bottom of what matters. I know why the company might do this, I want to understand if you think there's an end goal for the group outside of any benefits it might give the company.

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I mean, if you don't like where TWICE's musical direction is going, you can just stop listening to them. It's very clear that TWICE isn't going to stop promoting in the west. And you said it yourself, you stan TWICE for the music, and if you don't like where their music is going, then why continue stanning.

Quote from stan12345

Firstly I barely post anymore and the only reason I talk about it is because the change is becoming increasingly pervasive in everything they do. None of my favourite songs for Twice are their biggest singles so I don't care for that. Being bringing up relevance and success is purely down to the group/members needing that for longevity purposes.

This year they've put out Taste of Love which is one of their weakest minis and Perfect World which is below both BDZ and &Twice in terms of quality for me. I talk about it because it impacts nearly everything that matters with respect to following a musical act. I'm not following the group because I find their personalities refreshing or how they do loads of their own variety content.

The fact that you think Monday releases constitutes them trying doesn't make sense to me as the release day is probably near the bottom of what matters. I know why the company might do this, I want to understand if you think there's an end goal for the group outside of any benefits it might give the company.

It's not about you posting anymore or whatever. From what I have observed, I have never seen you praise the members or talk about their music in general but just complain about JYPE.

TOL is the highest rated GG album. I think you're the only one who thinks its a "weak" mini. It's fine if you don't like their music anymore but like you said, you don't stan them for their personalities or whatever, maybe you need to find another group who releases the music you like. Because honestly speaking, music has to be one of the weakest complaint I've ever seen because TWICE, in the past couple of years, have put out their best and got critical acclaim.

Just like Friday releases favours the Western market, Monday releases are ideal for Korean charts. There is a reason why everyone comebacks on Monday. Even excluding that, TWICE do appear on variety shows like Running Man, Radio Star, Amazing Saturday etc along with music shows as a form of promotion. I mean, what else do they need to do?

I don't know what's the end goal but TWICE have had massive success in SK and are the biggest Kpop GG in Japan by a large margin. Now, they are not doing as well in those two markets (for several reasons) why not try for a newer/bigger market that everyone is targeting? I mean, what's the harm in that?

If you had said, JYPE should promote the members individually instead of promoting in the West, I might agree.

Quote from vzal

TOL is the highest rated GG album. I think you're the only one who thinks its a "weak" mini.

He isn't. I also think it's their worst release in years. In fact I think the only one worse is the first one maybe.

Quote from tenfour

He isn't. I also think it's their worst release in years. In fact I think the only one worse is the first one maybe.

Sure sure, your opinion.

Not this again just let them promote there they’re already at their peak in kore and japan

Quote from stan12345

Firstly, I'm going to obviously talk about Twice here because I don't care for any other group.

Secondly, Twice are not every other kpop group. What's the opportunity cost for other groups in terms of promoting in Japan/South Korea versus the west? The public don't care for 95% of kpop groups so what are they missing out on by promoting west?

Kard are one of the groups that have massively depended on fans outside of SK but that's purely because SK do not care for them.

You’re asking why Kpop needs to promote in the west fundamentally? There is more money there. Even 1% reach is more money than entire Korea. The reason hallyu exists is because Kpop is profitable when exported lol.

Common sense.

Quote from stan12345

I don't know how much you used the old site but I used to post about their performance and music more than most. I used to write out paragraph after paragraph reviewing their releases. The cynic in me has stemmed from the obvious issues Twice were having back in 2019 but no attempts to fix it.

As a fan from debut I liked them for their quintessential kpop sound, which is why western fans and publications didn't rate the group at first. They're now putting out more westernized music than ever (with Taste of Love being their most westernised release) and are therefore getting more critical acclaim from western publications. Great? The thing is this was one of my points in the OP. Western success and attention has been put on such a pedestal within the fandom now that western publications have started paying any attention to the group. 2019 was a strong year musically for them, 2020 just a bit worse and 2021 being near the bottom.

If the day you release impacts how well your song does than you can't be that relevant to the public. IU doesn't release on Mondays. BTS/BP don't either. How does any of that promotion over the period of the last 2 years make the public see them as more mature? When it comes to public promotion Twice have never left their comfort zone. Whether that's down to the members not wanting to do things such as live singing shows that carry a more mature audience who knows.

The harm in my mind is that at JYPE the opportunity cost is bigger.

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Maybe members grow out of the "Twice sound" which pretty much is bright and cute sound. They have more input in the stuff than they ever had before, they write more lyrics. People seems to like it, I like it, you don't need to like it.

They are getting critical acclaim cuz they are more known in the west not cuz their songs are "westernized", Kpop getting bigger and bigger everywhere that's why critics look at kpop albums.

Promotions in Korea are bad cuz JYPE is still doing this weird shit with Japanese comeback right after Korean. And because of covid they can't properly promote in Japan.

Quote from stan12345

No - where on earth have I asked that? This thread is specifically about Twice and their particular circumstances clearly. Hence why I mentioned Kard and opportunity costs.

Why are you chatting about common sense whilst not comprehending the thread properly.

No you asked about kpop.

Twice is the third largest kpop group in the west. Ofc they’ll promote there.

When you ask why twice should promote in the west you’re automatically asking why kpop should promote in the west it’s simple. And that’s why your question is silly with an obvious answer.

Quote from stan12345

I hadn't actually seen your opinion on the new release as I wasn't around much past the title track coming out which I did like. Looks like we thought similarly with regards to it though.

I do LOVE Conversation, but otherwise, yikes.

I'm not as negative as you on the trajectory insofar as I think Alcohol-Free as a title track was an attempt to re-centre them as a Korean GP favourite. Siloing out the English song is also a good thing from my perspective as it draws a hard line between "Western Twice" and "Korean Twice", just like "Japanese Twice" already has its own identity. I'm clearly not digging what's coming out of Twice Korea lately, as only Depend On You and Conversation have left any impact on me. So I'm not going to complain about any shakeup tbh.

Is there an "opportunity cost"? The only opportunity that's lost is the opportunity to continue saturating their Korean market. Which obviously was not sustainable. If they have one Korean release, one Japanese release, one English release a year... I can get behind that. You still have the same output as the Twice of old, but the public in Korea have less chance to get sick of them.

But I do agree that a western push does not benefit the members whatsoever. I mean, this should be really obvious, I don't understand why other people are limboing under the point.

Quote from stan12345

I don't know how much you used the old site but I used to post about their performance and music more than most. I used to write out paragraph after paragraph reviewing their releases. The cynic in me has stemmed from the obvious issues Twice were having back in 2019 but no attempts to fix it.

As a fan from debut I liked them for their quintessential kpop sound, which is why western fans and publications didn't rate the group at first. They're now putting out more westernized music than ever (with Taste of Love being their most westernised release) and are therefore getting more critical acclaim from western publications. Great? The thing is this was one of my points in the OP. Western success and attention has been put on such a pedestal within the fandom now that western publications have started paying any attention to the group. 2019 was a strong year musically for them, 2020 just a bit worse and 2021 being near the bottom.

If the day you release impacts how well your song does than you can't be that relevant to the public. IU doesn't release on Mondays. BTS/BP don't either. How does any of that promotion over the period of the last 2 years make the public see them as more mature? When it comes to public promotion Twice have never left their comfort zone. Whether that's down to the members not wanting to do things such as live singing shows that carry a more mature audience who knows.

The harm in my mind is that at JYPE the opportunity cost is bigger. What the group and members individually could potentially miss out on with this approach as they approach the twilight of their kpop career as a group.

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I don't remember but whatever, I'll take your word for it.

Again, you don't like the music? Kpop is over saturated. I am sure you will find a group that matches your taste. 2019 was a strong year for them yes, Feel Special remains their best mini to date. It's not only TWICE being westernised. BTS, BP, ITZY etc everyone is releasing music to cater to the West but the thing is, TWICE got not only their but the highest rated GG album in history. This speaks a lot on how much they have grown musically. You may not like their current sound but they are getting the critical acclaim and western recognition which everyone wants these days with it.

Comparing TWICE to IU or BTS is stupid. One is easily the greatest soloist as well as the greatest idol actress of all time and the other is just...BTS. IU can release a song now and still top the charts. Same goes for BTS, to a lesser extent. BP are promoted very differently compared to other artists and we have already discussed this.

The problem with TWICE is their brand isn't as strong as it was. AF didn't even get 150k ULs in 24h. A huge drop from last year's M&M 700k+, it's pretty obvious the GP has moved onto newer groups. I get your point that JYPE made no effort to sell their new image but they didn't. I don't see any reason to ponder over it when you can't do anything about it.

Quote from stan12345

Of course variety is key - the fact that they stuck with the same sound for so long is one of the reasons they are struggling to be taken seriously in SK with other sounds. But along with their sound the western bug has had a pervasive impact on how they do most things.

Any minis before Fancy You are not getting similar reactions from western publications or western fans. There has long been a decent sized western fandom for kpop and for the longest time they disliked Twice and their music, preferring BP/RV.

Sticking with the same sound is a factor I agree but it's not the only one. Twice never promoted outside of comeback cycle, while it the past it worked with shit ton of comebacks and concerts, now with one or two comebacks they are visible to gp for maybe 1-2months per years if they are lucky.

Twice needs better team what will play to their strengths and put them up for tv, brand deals, solo ost. I think the stuff they are doing now is very slow move into the right direction but maybe they will surprise me with something big.

Quote from stan12345

They could have been the most impactful GG in SK ever with the start they had but it was squandered for 5 minutes of western relevancy.

Is it really that, though?

It seems to me that More & More was the turning point. I don't know if that was a song that was meant to appeal to the west or what, but the performance clearly spooked JYPE from a creative standpoint.

There was this idea that the image of Twice was transforming, but it's not been transformed, it's just been lost.

I can't tell Can't Stop Me apart from the wave of 80s synth songs that came out around the same time. And it's obvious what happened: The people at JYPE and at Blockberry and at Everglow's label (etc) all saw how Weeknd and Dua Lipa were doing and were like, "we need to do that!!"

I seem to recall that composer who leaked a brief from JYPE requesting a song like Say So when that song was everywhere.

So is that an attempt to appeal to the west or is it just creative bankruptcy? I guess, why not both. I guarantee that even songs like Fancy and Feel Special weren't created out of a brief of, "we want to sound like this other song that is very popular right now". Because they don't. Twice never did. Until they did.

Like the English song sounds like Dynamite to me so far. I can see JYPE's two braincells spinning. It's cynical, sure. It's also so uncreative that it boggles my mind. This from a company whose tagline is "leader in entertainment". Fuck outta here with that shit.

I'll still bat for Twice Japan though. It still does have an identity to me. Perfect World is a very fitting follow up to & Twice, and if it sounds like Twice Korea b-sides, then it's Feel Special b-sides not Taste of Love b-sides, so I'm not gonna complain.

I think JYP has already moved on from Twice and is focused primarily on ensuring that his new groups blow up, Niziu, the NGG next year and the LOUD project. HIs third gen acts are all approaching midnight, some like Got7 have already left the party, others are off to defend the Kingdom (Day6), and there's only a few hours left for the Queen herself .

You mention opportunity cost to the girls themselves of abandoning the Asian market for the US. But what if JYP already knows that there is no opportunity cost to consider? What if he knows that the girls are already ready to leave JYP or retire from idol life completely?

If so, there is no reason for him to preserve Twice's status in Asia if Twice is gone in a year. Maybe he thinks it's better to use what time is left to use Twice as guinea pigs, additional tests for the Western market, plus development of their relationship with Republic Records.

And it's not like Twice will be completely absent in Asia. You can bet that there will still be Korean and Japanese releases till the very end, we all know how JYP likes to milk Onces.

These are the thoughts that have been plaguing my mind especially since Izone disbandment. The disbandment has made me even more cynical and pessimistic than before.

If Twice truly is on its last year and if JYP were a better man, he would use what time is left to help set up the girls in Asia, focus completely on solo endeavors of whatever type is most helpful to each member. Brand deals, TV and variety shows or movies, solo music. It probably wont be as profitable to JYP probably as selling records or charting on BB, but it would help the girls out the most.

Quote from BlackpinkHouse

I think JYP has already moved on from Twice and is focused primarily on ensuring that his new groups blow up, Niziu, the NGG next year and the LOUD project. HIs third gen acts are all approaching midnight, some like Got7 have already left the party, others are off to defend the Kingdom (Day6), and there's only a few hours left for the Queen herself .

You mention opportunity cost to the girls themselves of abandoning the Asian market for the US. But what if JYP already knows that there is no opportunity cost to consider? What if he knows that the girls are already ready to leave JYP or retire from idol life completely?

If so, there is no reason for him to preserve Twice's status in Asia if Twice is gone in a year. Maybe he thinks it's better to use what time is left to use Twice as guinea pigs, additional tests for the Western market, plus development of their relationship with Republic Records.

And it's not like Twice will be completely absent in Asia. You can bet that there will still be Korean and Japanese releases till the very end, we all know how JYP likes to milk Onces.

These are the thoughts that have been plaguing my mind especially since Izone disbandment. The disbandment has made me even more cynical and pessimistic than before.

If Twice truly is on its last year and if JYP were a better man, he would use what time is left to help set up the girls in Asia, focus completely on solo endeavors of whatever type is most helpful to each member. Brand deals, TV and variety shows or movies, solo music. It probably wont be as profitable to JYP probably as selling records or charting on BB, but it would help the girls out the most.

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Why you are keep talking about JYP when Twice managed by div3? I don't understand why people are so fixated on JYP (the man) not the company as a whole? You can talk about JYP when he's involved in their music but when it comes to promotions I'm pretty sure it's cuz div3 just sucks.

Quote from TheBotter

Nothing, none. To succeed or have any chance in a new massive market you need advertisement, TV promo and to work with people in the local industry.

JYPE is seemingly not doing any of that. The song isn't from any western producer, RR is likely not going to push it at all, they wont be getting any playlist again, which is almost entirely instrumental to debuting on BB charts and likely once again no radio play.

I mean the song already sounds nothing like what people in the west listen too, so far no promo is announced, they already fucked several things up such as the wrong date, leaking part of the song, not paying for the site rental, site already having trouble delivering orders, etc, etc.

Jinyoung is obsessed with the US music market and always will be, even tho fundamentally he doesn't understand it and never has. He has no concept of what US and western audiences like and how to sell to them and in his pursuit he essentially sacrificed Twice stranglehold on Korea and Japan and so far has showed absolutely zero to justify it.

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How can they have trouble delivering orders, it's a digital download, right?

And to do those things you listed, requires two things. JYP to open up the coffers and invest some upfront money for the radio playlisting, promo, etc. And for the girls to have the English skills to connect with American audiences.

I cant imagine JYP spending the required money to do the former especially if Twice is in its last year, and the members of Twice are singularly unequipped to handle the latter. If Twice had an English ambassador type like RM or even Somi, with a 4D personality and onscreen charisma, maybe they could pull off American promo events, but those things are so cringey for Kpop groups in general...i dunno....

Quote from TheBotter

Exactly, you need to spend on improving your infrastructure when dropping a song on promo, radio, playlisting and have connections to carry it through, JYPE has none of that in place so the song is given 0 chance at success from the get go dooming the whole process as a complete waste of time with almost no chance of any form of success.

English speakers is meh, they are competent enough for limited interviews with vetted questions regardless of needing someone like Somi who can't promote herself to be 1% as relevant as Twice in English speaking countries so I wouldn't worry about her '4D' personality.

Plenty of Kpop groups have promoted in regions without being fluent or proficient in the language be it China, Japan or elsewhere.

The issue is JYPE never primed Twice for promo's in the west and never planned for them to be popular outside of East Asian yet his company finds themselves in the position of Twice being the 3rd most popular group globally and his other groups aren't near them right now in that respect so they are using Twice as a ice breaker into the market in the hopes of them paving some form of way for the companies future prospect, even if it doesn't work out for Twice long term, they don't care...that's been made perfectly evident from how abyssal they have handled the Feels from the start.

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You had me until you went after Somi.

You'd think out of everyone Jype would promote in the west it would be itzy huh? That makes the choice of promoting twice in the west more polarizing.

Then again, Twice already has a large fanbase, Itzy may be still building one

Quote from stan12345

See my post on page one with regards to why I still follow the group. I want to see what their next evolution is as a group or individually.

Western critical acclaim gets them what exactly though? When they eventually end up back in SK or Japan establishing careers what is that critical acclaim worth from a western website? If we're being matter of fact, for a group like Twice it means nowt. If JYPE put some media play out about it like other companies probably would have done, it would reach the members ears, the publics ears etc and might have some significance. But thats not the case, all it is currently is a number on a website for stans to use in fan wars. That's not worth wasting the twilight of their career as a group. They should have established the members when they had the best chance to.

I'm sorry but you're overstating the importance of a Monday release. It's not even the start of the tracking week in SK to maximise first week charting. It's not even the day songs tend to maximise UL's. A Friday/weekend release is more difficult as less of the GP tune in on the weekend but every other weekday is no different. IU tends to release on Wednesdays. Brave Girls released on Thursday. Twice released on Wednesday.

That question applies to every group. As I said before, JYPE's best shot is TWICE, a group nearing contracts renewals, have a huge international fandom to back them up. But that didn't stop them from pushing ITZY in the West as well. Bottom line is JYPE doesn't know how to manage their groups and that's it. They have no idea of what to do with TWICE from 2020 onwards and TWICE losing their stronghold in SK/Japan to newer groups/NiziU didn't help.

Momo also talked about this on Bubble. Nayeon also did in her Elle Korea interview. News of this type reaches the members ears by itself. I mean the group is releasing an album on Friday, a first in their career, do you really think they would go ahead with it and give it no second thought? They obviously have a goal in mind when they decide to release on Friday. There was even a video of what Korean think about this achievement and all of them were positive towards this.

You are now saying they should have established the members individually and I agree with this. But, was this mentioned in the OP or I magically missed it?

I'm not overstating, it's just the truth. Monday releases do favour Korean charts. You keep bringing up IU when it's clear that TWICE can't be compared to her. BG released on Thursday, yes but then their new song was a Monday release. RV, Aespa, OMG, SKZ, Somi etc like literally every artist releases on Monday. It might not be that important and it wasn't even my main point but it matters.

Covid exist bro, they cant do shits beside making content for western push. You cant even properly promote in front of their fans in music shows back in Korea let alone held a concert and fan meeting in Japan

Quote from TheBotter

JYPE is seemingly not doing any of that. The song isn't from any western producer, RR is likely not going to push it at all, they wont be getting any playlist again, which is almost entirely instrumental to debuting on BB charts and likely once again no radio play.

I mean the song already sounds nothing like what people in the west listen too, so far no promo is announced, they already fucked several things up such as the wrong date, leaking part of the song, not paying for the site rental, site already having trouble delivering orders, etc, etc.

Something is definitely wrong with the marketing part of JYPE. These people on the first look, just do not seem to be able to make the correct decisions for the most part.