We are in Gen 5

    There's been controversy on how to time generations. Most of the issue comes from SM GG stans trying to create arbitrary start dates based on what conveniences them. Aespa debuted in the later part of the generation, but their stans REALLY wanted that "leaders of their generation" title. So they kept saying that Aespa opened the 4th generation. This would make groups like Stray Kidz & GIDLE "3rd gen", despite being recognized as 4th gen in their debut. But looking at things objective, there would only be 1 major SM GG per generation. And precisely, SMNGG will debut in the 5th generation.


    Gen 1 / 1996-2000 (4 years) + transitional period 2001-2022 (2 years)


    1996 HOT <---- disbanded in 2001

    1996 Sechs Kies <---- disbanded in 2020, marking the end of Gen 1 before a transitional period

    1997 SES <---- disbanded in 2002

    1997 Baby VOX

    1998 FinKL

    1999 god


    Gen 2 / 2003-2007 (4 years)


    2003 TVXQ

    2005 SJ

    2006 Big Bang

    2007 WG

    2007 SNSD <---- SM stans created an extension of Gen 2 because SNSD debuted late in their generation


    Gen 2.5 / 2008-2012 (4 years)


    2008 SHINee

    2009 2NE1

    2009 f(x)

    2010 miss A

    2011 APink

    2012 EXO <---- last major group of "Gen 2.5"


    Gen 3 / 2013-2017 (4 years)


    2013 BTS <--- first major group of Gen 3

    2014 RV

    2015 TWICE

    2015 Seventeen

    2015 BPink

    2016 NCT

    2017 WannaOne


    Gen 4 / 2018 - 2022 (4 years)


    2018 Stray Kidz <--- first major group of Gen 4

    2018 GIDLE <--- GIDLE debuted after SKZ

    2019 ITZY

    2019 TXT

    2020 Aespa <---- SM stans trying to say Aespa "opened" the 4th generation

    2021 IVE

    2022 NewJeans


    Gen 5 / 2023-2027 (4 years)


    2023 BabyMonster

    2023 SMNGG

    2024 HYBENGG

    2025 JYPNGG

    Quote from Heavens-Eye

    Get off Mnet's payroll.


    4th gen started in 2019/2020

    You are new to kpop or you have an agenda.


    In 2018 all kpop fans were calling it the 4th generation.


    Including calling GIDLE a 4th gen group


    Netizens list out the top 6 rookie groups with the potential to bring in the era of the 4th generation in K-Pop
    One of the most notable topics of debate in the K-Pop scene recently is the establishment of the 4th generation of idols, both in Korea as well as g…
    www.allkpop.com


    Only after Aespa's debut did people want to be revisionist on this.

    Quote from godkingteshub

    Since 2000

    I wasn't trying to compete with you. You're the one who suggested I was new to K-pop when I'm not. And even if I were, that has nothing to do with it ( ad hominen, much?). All the information you brought forth I was already aware of when it comes to the past generation, and anyone, regardless of when they joined Kpop, could acess the same information with research.


    But getting back on topic, different people have different interpretations of when a new generation starts, but only when we reach a general consus will I aknowlege the start of 5th gen. And as far as I can tell, the only people pushing for the start of 5th gen are companies debuting new groups and the stans of those new groups - all of which are only after bragging rights.

    Quote from Heavens-Eye

    Where are you getting that from? Just because I don't consider Iz*One 4th gen does not mean the same for Wonyoung. She redebuted with IVE during the 4th gen, which makes her a 4th gen idol regardless of whatever was going on before then.


    Wut? Since when does joining a new group change your gen/original debut date? So Bravegirls will redebut as BB Girls this year. Does that mean that 1987 liners like Minyoung are now 4th gen idols? :pepefacepalm:

    Quote from BlackpinkHouse

    Does that mean that 1987 liners like Minyoung are now 4th gen idols?

    No, their 5th gen now, obviously


    BB Girls are 5th Gen!


    /s



    Quote from Slayurfaves

    what about chiquita or nj makne (14/15) being in the same generation as Miyeon ( same age as chaelisa) if we go with that logic lol

    15 years vs 12 Years.


    I actually don't care about Generations, it's funny to see people always have such dissonant thinking in regards to it.


    They'll defend some criteria for whatever their preference is, and then turn around and find 10 million exceptions for another.


    All I know is this - (G)I-DLE had the biggest song for 3rd Gen Artists last year in Korea. They've so far had the biggest song for 3rd Gen Artists in Korea this year.


    Pretty clear Idle are on top of 3rd Gen now in Korea.

    not true it started with itzy and txt gidle and stray kids didn't make any noise when they debuted as far as people speculating of a generation shift it was until 2019


    TXT and ITZY: Will they be the origin of the 4th generation or the peak of the 3rd generation?
    The emergence of rookies including TXT and ITZY makes netizens wonder whether they will start the 4th generation of idols or will they continue to maintain the…
    kbizoom.com


    Netizens are debating whether ITZY and Aespa are the 4th generation – Pannkpop


    Are TXT And ITZY The Start Of The Fourth Generation Of K-Pop?
    A lot of new groups like ITZY and TXT are debuting in 2019 which has sparked the question if this is the beginning of the fourth generation of K-Pop.
    shorturl.at


    there are several articles from pannchoa questioning groups that debuted earlier to be considered 4th generation but I can't find it now

    what are you making things up aos, exid apink are 2nd generation they were never considered 3rd gen

    for girl groups 3rd gen started in 2014 with red velvet. mamamoo and later gfriend


    you are crazy thinking babymonster and nj could be the same generation as G idle

    Quote from BlackpinkHouse

    Wut? Since when does joining a new group change your gen/original debut date? So Bravegirls will redebut as BB Girls this year. Does that mean that 1987 liners like Minyoung are now 4th gen idols? :pepefacepalm:

    she was in the old brave girls that debuted in 2nd generation era not the brave girls that rebranded in 2016 that's the one that is 3rd gen. About ages since you are bringing that up there are members of twice and red velvet, omg , wjns that are younger than some members in Gidle or other groups that debuted in 2018

    Quote from godkingteshub

    Generations shouldn't be based on your personal biases. It should be an objective category taking into account the kpop industry as a whole

    Firstly, there is no "objective" way to define a generation. You're the one who made the presumption that I was putting Wonyoung in the same generation as Irene. I then explained that I wasn't, and now you're accusing me of trying to determine generations based on "my personal biases" based on said explanation? Furthermore, I quite literally said in one of my responses above that I would acknowledge the start of the 5th gen when there is a consensus that doesn't just consist of mnet and the fans of the new group mnet is trying to push. As far as I have seen, most people do not agree that we are in 5th gen, that includes even Knetz as well.


    edit: Sorry, I misquoted you. Thought you were BlackpinkHouse


    But anyway, didn't you literally title this thread: "We are in Gen 5"? And didn't you also try to use the length of time as a kpop fan as grounds to dismiss me on the matter? Funny then, that you turn around and tell me that I am the one trying to define generations based on personal biases.

    Pannchoa is a nest of Aespa fans, so of course it fits with what I said in the OP.


    What's ironic is that you bpink stans were treating GIDLE like new gen upstarts. And then saying "4th gen can't achieve what 3rd gen did". Anyway people in 2018 were considering groups in that year 4th gen for the most part, fewer calling them 3rd gen


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    I was here ( actually way earlier but still lol) when the 4th gen started let's be real it all started with itzy and txt before that people weren't talking about generation shift at all considering 3rd gen was in their best year 2018


    2018 is 3.5 gen

    Lol and all the .5 gen part.


    It's 3rd gen or 4th gen, there is no .5 gen.


    .5 is half. that means if you start calling stuff .5, that means it's halfway through the gen.


    It sounds silly, it sounds like people trying to contort semantics to shift criteria, and apart from all that, it's just illogical.


    So whatever the goalposts are, there's no .5 gen. It's 3rd Gen, 4th Gen, 15th Gen.

    to me it feels like idle everglow loona are 3.5 gen and itzy is on the bridge between that and 4th gen.

    I think itzy debuted at a strange/awkward time when 3rd / 3.5 gen was ending but 4th gen hasn't started yet. I don’t think a gg can be 4th gen if they debuted before 2020.

    also they started declining pretty fast and by 2021 they lost a lot of the impact they had in their debut. I think JYP should have waited a year or two before debuting them btw.


    And looking back, I agree that aespa debut is not necessarily a new gen debut. Because I have the feeling that for a new gen to really kick off, you need more than one impactful group for that weather it's itzy or aespa. And except aespa and maybe stay C there was not really anything much happening in 2020 (the year of covid).


    by the way i do think that on top of that covid distorted time smh. Groups that should have debuted a year ago where probably pushed of a year later or something so that also had an impact on the generation shift.


    What i personally think is that in fact 4th gen actually started in 2022 (late 2021) with the debut of most prominent and impactful ggs right nows, like Ive, Ssera, New Jeans, Fifty Fifty and also XG. Even nmix debuted in 2022 and BM is coming in 2023. Truly i think this new gen kicked off in overall 2022 with hit songs like Love dive, Hype boy and Antifrigile and later on Cupid. We don't know yet when it's gonna end but i think we are in start of it.


    On a side, Next level kicked of the 4th gen national hit race so i guess that would put aespa in the 4th gen too but that doesn’t necessarily means that 4th gen really started with them. Next level was more like an intro to 4th gen. Like a prelude that defintly put an end to 3rd gen all togheter.


    That's my opinion on the matter. So in conclusion i think we are at the start of a very promising 4th gen specially with groups like NJ, Ssera, Fifty Fifty and even XG. I think it's gonna be 4th gen still for 3-5 years but I have no clear idea when it's gonna end tho. Time will tell i guess. But truth be told the later you can go back for 4th gen i think is 2021 so if you add 6/7 years to that 4th gen should end around 2027/28.

    1,300+ Cmyk Gradient Illustrations, Royalty-Free Vector Graphics & Clip Art - iStock | Cmyk gradient background

    Edited 2 times, last by desdesdes ().

    Quote from BlackpinkHouse

    Wut? Since when does joining a new group change your gen/original debut date? So Bravegirls will redebut as BB Girls this year. Does that mean that 1987 liners like Minyoung are now 4th gen idols? :pepefacepalm:

    The age of the idols dont matter. Their debute date is important.

    Brave Girls is 2nd Gen debuting in 2011. But Minyoung and the other members ar 3rd Gen. Debuting in 2016.

    You can argue that minyoung debute in 2013 with heavyt or 2014 with zzbest but thats still 3rd Gen.

    Also she is 1990 Liner not 1987. 😂

    You can now argue BB Girls is a 4th or even 5th Gen group. But their members are still Idols who debuted in 3rd Gen.

    Quote from Heavens-Eye

    Brave girls are rebranding, it's not the same.

    Is there a difference between viviz and BB Girls because BB Girls redebute with all the members from their latest Brave Girls lineup?

    Like gfriend and Brave Girls are 3rd Gen. And so are the members. But now viviz is a 4th Gen group with 3rd Gen members.

    That would make BB Girls also a 4th/5th Gen group with 3rd Gen members. 🤔

    Quote from Slayurfaves

    she was in the old brave girls that debuted in 2nd generation era not the brave girls that rebranded in 2016 that's the one that is 3rd gen. About ages since you are bringing that up there are members of twice and red velvet, omg , wjns that are younger than some members in Gidle or other groups that debuted in 2018

    Minyoung did not debute with the old Brave Girls. She joined in 2016 with the other Girls from 3rd Gen.

    She also debute 2013 with heavyt and 2014 with zzbest. Its complicated. :sweat:

    Quote from godkingteshub

    You are new to kpop or you have an agenda.


    In 2018 all kpop fans were calling it the 4th generation.


    Including calling GIDLE a 4th gen group


    There was a lot of discussion about Stray Kids and ATEEZ being 3.5 or maybe 4 back then.

    The 4 was done with a lot of hesitation as there was no clear other set of groups to add them too, which now exists.


    The debut of ITZY was universally seen as gen 4 and then in retrospect Stray Kids and Idle were also grouped under 4. This wasn't clear cut at the time though and even after ITZY's debut, people were still in disagreement over which group was the one starting the gen for a while.

    godkingteshub thanks for writing out your list in the OP.

    Always interesting to read these kind of lists.


    I always thought EXO was third gen though.

    SM had successful boy groups like SJ and Shinee in gen 2 that seem from a different period. EXO was what set off gen 3 for me.





    Quote from ellenote

    NO WE ARE NOT. PROPOGANDA SEEMS TO BE WORKING THOUGH. HOW ARE WE IN 5TH GEN IF 4TH GEN HASNT EVEN FINISHED???? STOP WANTING TO LIVE IN THE FUTURE!!!!!!! :mad::sleeping::clown:X/</3:skull::sweat::thumbdown::thumbdown::thumbdown::thumbdown::thumbdown::thumbdown::thumbdown:

    To me it's wild that we're already starting this discussion as it seems so short ago that we were discussing if gen 4 had started.

    I still think we're in 4.5 personally, but wouldn't be surprised if the debut of yet another set of GGs from big companies will be seen as gen 5 in retrospect

    Quote from Slayurfaves

    I was here ( actually way earlier but still lol) when the 4th gen started let's be real it all started with itzy and txt before that people weren't talking about generation shift at all considering 3rd gen was in their best year 2018


    2018 is 3.5 gen

    I agree that everyone finally agreed it had started with TXT and especially ITZY as they had a monster debut.


    Back in 2018, Stray Kids etc were still often considered 3.5 gen. Now, I think that they should be the start of gen 4. There is some overlap though for 2018, but overall I see them as closer to TXT than BTS or EXO, who are already in their enlistment period.

    Using hard and fast dates to determine Kpop acts is dumb. It's a retrospective kinda thing.


    Generations are a kinda retrospective sort of thing. Saying a Generation is definitively started at X year and lasts for Y years with such certainty just lacks any permeance of thought.


    TVXQ and Jewelry were basically lone islands before the revival of Kpop groups as a concept between gen 1 and the start of gen 2. But we don't consider them some nebulous gen 1.5.


    Why? Cause they were in the active mix of notable names when things really kicked off in 2007.



    For that same reason, EXID is a gen 3 group... cause when people will have retrospectives on gen 2, they're not gonna bring up UP & Down as a representative song of the time, cause it wasn't.


    Gen 3 popped off in 2015~2016, but are we saying only groups that debuted at that time gen 3? are acts like BTS and EXO just not gen 3? Of course not, because the zeitgeist of pop music was centered around them at that time.


    So is (G)I-DLE much older than their contemporaries? Yeah. But people aren't going to be talking about Tomboy and Queencard next to Fancy and Kill this love. They're going to discuss them next to Ditto, Love Dive and Next Level.

    not necessarily just because people started to persuade others to believe older groups to be 4th gen doesn't mean everyone believes that as you can see some people don't see G idle as 4th gen but 3.5 gen aka the transition period

    it's still a debatable and it's gonna continue. There are many songs of Gidle that give 3rd gen vibes lion, latata, tomboy etc

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