I read a fairly robust discussion about this months back.

That dating bans and fan outrage and hysteria over idols having dating "scandals" eventually leads to this.

Honestly, male idols are young, highly energetic, engaged in a highly sexualised industry, usually live in dorms with little privacy and have obsessive, fanatical fans that scrutinise their every action. They, like most males, also have "needs" and there is 0 chance that out of the 100's of currently active male idols (let alone all the retired ones) don't get h*rny and dont want to have a bit of fun every now and again. There is NO way these guys are getting through their late teens and twenties purely celibate.

The problem with dating is firstly the "scandal" aspect of it all, the terrible, stupid fan reactions when their idol is revealed to have a partner. The hate and scorn the partner possibly gets. Then theres the fact that the idol lifestyle doesn't really allow much time or privacy to have proper relationships either.

Even if the idol wanted something more casual/fwb, thats dangerous as well, as you REALLY need to trust the other person won't run to the media/social media. It's actually REALLY surprising that you don't hear that happening with idols at all. The whole "groupie" thing that western musicians have.

So where do young, dumb, handsome, sexually frustrated idols go to get release?

Probably two options really. They can possibly form some kind of casual/fwb thing with other idols (or dancers maybe) who also know the score and know to value privacy. I really do believe this is probably very common in the industry.

Or... they go to room salons/use very high class escorts. The kind of ones that are very "professional" and used to dealing with high profile and famous people and are known to be very discrete and private. The labels and management probably help organise it as well. Out of the options of dating, casual relationships with commoners, casual relationships with others in industry or paid services, it's probably the easiest for companies to manage and control.

Is it seedy and gross? That's a matter of perspective honestly and there is definitely a lot of discussion to be had about the ethics of sex work and the role of sex workers.

But... tldr...

Dating bans and fans poor reactions to their idols having real relationships probably leads to male idols using sex workers for their needs.

"room salon" is just another word for brothel huh?

you learn something new every day

Quote from ThePhantomThief

I read a fairly robust discussion about this months back.

That dating bans and fan outrage and hysteria over idols having dating "scandals" eventually leads to this.

Honestly, male idols are young, highly energetic, engaged in a highly sexualised industry, usually live in dorms with little privacy and have obsessive, fanatical fans that scrutinise their every action. They, like most males, also have "needs" and there is 0 chance that out of the 100's of currently active male idols (let alone all the retired ones) don't get h*rny and dont want to have a bit of fun every now and again. There is NO way these guys are getting through their late teens and twenties purely celibate.

The problem with dating is firstly the "scandal" aspect of it all, the terrible, stupid fan reactions when their idol is revealed to have a partner. The hate and scorn the partner possibly gets. Then theres the fact that the idol lifestyle doesn't really allow much time or privacy to have proper relationships either.

Even if the idol wanted something more casual/fwb, thats dangerous as well, as you REALLY need to trust the other person won't run to the media/social media. It's actually REALLY surprising that you don't hear that happening with idols at all. The whole "groupie" thing that western musicians have.

So where do young, dumb, handsome, sexually frustrated idols go to get release?

Probably two options really. They can possibly form some kind of casual/fwb thing with other idols (or dancers maybe) who also know the score and know to value privacy. I really do believe this is probably very common in the industry.

Or... they go to room salons/use very high class escorts. The kind of ones that are very "professional" and used to dealing with high profile and famous people and are known to be very discrete and private. The labels and management probably help organise it as well. Out of the options of dating, casual relationships with commoners, casual relationships with others in industry or paid services, it's probably the easiest for companies to manage and control.

Is it seedy and gross? That's a matter of perspective honestly and there is definitely a lot of discussion to be had about the ethics of sex work and the role of sex workers.

But... tldr...

Dating bans and fans poor reactions to their idols having real relationships probably leads to male idols using sex workers for their needs.

Display More

You put it perfectly. Also most people forget there is alot of legal sex work. From the aforementioned escort services to host and hostess clubs and other freely and publicly adverised services both here in Korea and in neighboring Japan and China such as rent a boyfriend or girlfriend services these too are escort services disgused as something innocent.

At the end of the day what these idols do both male and female idols both have sexual urges and should be allowed to engage with whoever they want how they want like any other human being can to treat them differently is to treat them kess than human which is wrong

Quote from selfmate

"room salon" is just another word for brothel huh?

you learn something new every day

Yup its soo well and widely known because these places are legal sex work their mostly disgused as some form of escort service so they get around the prostitution loophole.

Quote from kazuyakamenashi

Yup its soo well and widely known because these places are legal sex work their mostly disgused as some form of escort service so they get around the prostitution loophole.

interesting - they are legal? I remembering reading that prostitution is illegal in SK but escorting is legal so these room salons masquerade as escort services to get around the illegality aspect correct?

Quote from ThePhantomThief

I read a fairly robust discussion about this months back.

That dating bans and fan outrage and hysteria over idols having dating "scandals" eventually leads to this.

Honestly, male idols are young, highly energetic, engaged in a highly sexualised industry, usually live in dorms with little privacy and have obsessive, fanatical fans that scrutinise their every action. They, like most males, also have "needs" and there is 0 chance that out of the 100's of currently active male idols (let alone all the retired ones) don't get h*rny and dont want to have a bit of fun every now and again. There is NO way these guys are getting through their late teens and twenties purely celibate.

The problem with dating is firstly the "scandal" aspect of it all, the terrible, stupid fan reactions when their idol is revealed to have a partner. The hate and scorn the partner possibly gets. Then theres the fact that the idol lifestyle doesn't really allow much time or privacy to have proper relationships either.

Even if the idol wanted something more casual/fwb, thats dangerous as well, as you REALLY need to trust the other person won't run to the media/social media. It's actually REALLY surprising that you don't hear that happening with idols at all. The whole "groupie" thing that western musicians have.

So where do young, dumb, handsome, sexually frustrated idols go to get release?

Probably two options really. They can possibly form some kind of casual/fwb thing with other idols (or dancers maybe) who also know the score and know to value privacy. I really do believe this is probably very common in the industry.

Or... they go to room salons/use very high class escorts. The kind of ones that are very "professional" and used to dealing with high profile and famous people and are known to be very discrete and private. The labels and management probably help organise it as well. Out of the options of dating, casual relationships with commoners, casual relationships with others in industry or paid services, it's probably the easiest for companies to manage and control.

Is it seedy and gross? That's a matter of perspective honestly and there is definitely a lot of discussion to be had about the ethics of sex work and the role of sex workers.

But... tldr...

Dating bans and fans poor reactions to their idols having real relationships probably leads to male idols using sex workers for their needs.

Display More

You should post more often, you have the best hot takes.

Quote from ThePhantomThief

I read a fairly robust discussion about this months back.

That dating bans and fan outrage and hysteria over idols having dating "scandals" eventually leads to this.

Honestly, male idols are young, highly energetic, engaged in a highly sexualised industry, usually live in dorms with little privacy and have obsessive, fanatical fans that scrutinise their every action. They, like most males, also have "needs" and there is 0 chance that out of the 100's of currently active male idols (let alone all the retired ones) don't get h*rny and dont want to have a bit of fun every now and again. There is NO way these guys are getting through their late teens and twenties purely celibate.

The problem with dating is firstly the "scandal" aspect of it all, the terrible, stupid fan reactions when their idol is revealed to have a partner. The hate and scorn the partner possibly gets. Then theres the fact that the idol lifestyle doesn't really allow much time or privacy to have proper relationships either.

Even if the idol wanted something more casual/fwb, thats dangerous as well, as you REALLY need to trust the other person won't run to the media/social media. It's actually REALLY surprising that you don't hear that happening with idols at all. The whole "groupie" thing that western musicians have.

So where do young, dumb, handsome, sexually frustrated idols go to get release?

Probably two options really. They can possibly form some kind of casual/fwb thing with other idols (or dancers maybe) who also know the score and know to value privacy. I really do believe this is probably very common in the industry.

Or... they go to room salons/use very high class escorts. The kind of ones that are very "professional" and used to dealing with high profile and famous people and are known to be very discrete and private. The labels and management probably help organise it as well. Out of the options of dating, casual relationships with commoners, casual relationships with others in industry or paid services, it's probably the easiest for companies to manage and control.

Is it seedy and gross? That's a matter of perspective honestly and there is definitely a lot of discussion to be had about the ethics of sex work and the role of sex workers.

But... tldr...

Dating bans and fans poor reactions to their idols having real relationships probably leads to male idols using sex workers for their needs.

Display More

Agreed to the max.

Quote from selfmate

interesting - they are legal? I remembering reading that prostitution is illegal in SK but escorting is legal so these room salons masquerade as escort services to get around the illegality aspect correct?

Yes it's an open secret. They flirt with the law its a rather simple loophole. The tldr version is "its not prostitution if the client and the agent decide to have sex and no money exchange's hands." Because if you tried to prosecute, you'd run into the problem of basically having to arrest anyone who decided to form a relationship etc. As the mechanics are the same.

This same mechanism is how seungri got away without the prostitution charge and how this maddam lady ran the business because technically no prostitution occurred that's why they were having soo much trouble with the charge sticking. Another reason I would often laugh at uninformed forgieners here who portrayed him as some evil pimp lord🤣 when im reality this dude ordered escorts from one such service this shit is as common as someone ordering something off Uber eats. Another reason this all exists is because sex work has been legal for along time here it only recently was banned in the early 2000's to appease westerners so thatwe could host the Olympics.

What they do in their down time is their affair. Whatever floats their boat I guess.

Quote from SandyBee3

If they wouldn’t have it that hard to date, they wouldn’t go to these establishments. Sex is a human need, unless you’re asexual.

Btw I think the discussion of sex work is often pretty poor and many get way to emotional that a more nuanced conversation isn’t possible.

I wouldn't necessarily agree that it's a human need.. Things like food and water are human needs though

If they're happy with it, none of my business.

Quote from SandyBee3

You are free to disagree, but it is and always was.

2118F938-B0F3-4C84-B138-20A6E225D4C7.png

that image is a bit misleading though, cause sex is obviously not the same as all the other things in that category. It's entirely possible to go without sex for the majority of your life or all of it without suffering any physical repercussions, unlike food, water, sleep, etc where you'll literally die within days if you're deprived.

Quote from ThePhantomThief

But... tldr...

Dating bans and fans poor reactions to their idols having real relationships probably leads to male idols using sex workers for their needs.

Nearly all men with status and money use high end escorts. Even when it's not a dating ban in place nor poor reactions.

Quote from kazuyakamenashi

Yes it's an open secret. They flirt with the law its a rather simple loophole. The tldr version is "its not prostitution if the client and the agent decide to have sex and no money exchange's hands." Because if you tried to prosecute, you'd run into the problem of basically having to arrest anyone who decided to form a relationship etc. As the mechanics are the same.

This same mechanism is how seungri got away without the prostitution charge and how this maddam lady ran the business because technically no prostitution occurred that's why they were having soo much trouble with the charge sticking. Another reason I would often laugh at uninformed forgieners here who portrayed him as some evil pimp lord🤣 when im reality this dude ordered escorts from one such service this shit is as common as someone ordering something off Uber eats. Another reason this all exists is because sex work has been legal for along time here it only recently was banned in the early 2000's to appease westerners so thatwe could host the Olympics.

the more you know

cheers mate

As much as I hate these things, I acknowledge that this is the disgusting lifestyle for most rich men or male celebrities. Not that middle or lower class men are saints either. Most of them have visited these places at least once in their lifetime. If they couldn't, they dream to do so. Whenever I remind myself of this, I feel so done with humans.

Quote from kingkook

As much as I hate these things, I acknowledge that this is the disgusting lifestyle for most rich men or male celebrities. Not that middle or lower class men are saints either. Most of them have visited these places at least once in their lifetime. If they couldn't, they dream to do so. Whenever I remind myself of this, I feel so done with humans.

🤣🤡 Its not that disgusting sex work is legal work in some areas and Many people partake in it. There's plenty of sex that women do at these places. Host clubs jiggalos Chippendales etc they all service female clients and here in Asia especially Japan the women are the biggest customers. So this isn't a man only thing get that bullshit out of your head. Its just women looking for sex isn't part of the narrative so you don't cover it. All the female idols and actresses have the same needs and wants as the men they too have to find a secure discreet way too

well i have no problem with people using room salons/buying sex whether men or women

Quote from ThePhantomThief

I read a fairly robust discussion about this months back.

That dating bans and fan outrage and hysteria over idols having dating "scandals" eventually leads to this.

Honestly, male idols are young, highly energetic, engaged in a highly sexualised industry, usually live in dorms with little privacy and have obsessive, fanatical fans that scrutinise their every action. They, like most males, also have "needs" and there is 0 chance that out of the 100's of currently active male idols (let alone all the retired ones) don't get h*rny and dont want to have a bit of fun every now and again. There is NO way these guys are getting through their late teens and twenties purely celibate.

The problem with dating is firstly the "scandal" aspect of it all, the terrible, stupid fan reactions when their idol is revealed to have a partner. The hate and scorn the partner possibly gets. Then theres the fact that the idol lifestyle doesn't really allow much time or privacy to have proper relationships either.

Even if the idol wanted something more casual/fwb, thats dangerous as well, as you REALLY need to trust the other person won't run to the media/social media. It's actually REALLY surprising that you don't hear that happening with idols at all. The whole "groupie" thing that western musicians have.

So where do young, dumb, handsome, sexually frustrated idols go to get release?

Probably two options really. They can possibly form some kind of casual/fwb thing with other idols (or dancers maybe) who also know the score and know to value privacy. I really do believe this is probably very common in the industry.

Or... they go to room salons/use very high class escorts. The kind of ones that are very "professional" and used to dealing with high profile and famous people and are known to be very discrete and private. The labels and management probably help organise it as well. Out of the options of dating, casual relationships with commoners, casual relationships with others in industry or paid services, it's probably the easiest for companies to manage and control.

Is it seedy and gross? That's a matter of perspective honestly and there is definitely a lot of discussion to be had about the ethics of sex work and the role of sex workers.

But... tldr...

Dating bans and fans poor reactions to their idols having real relationships probably leads to male idols using sex workers for their needs.

Display More

Re the groupie thing - they sign nda’s

The rest is on point

Quote from Haolat

well i have no problem with people using room salons/buying sex whether men or women

Me too

I heard there’s salons for women too - but maybe its a different set up?

Also someone blocked me in this thread.

Quote from kazuyakamenashi

You put it perfectly. Also most people forget there is alot of legal sex work. From the aforementioned escort services to host and hostess clubs and other freely and publicly adverised services both here in Korea and in neighboring Japan and China such as rent a boyfriend or girlfriend services these too are escort services disgused as something innocent.

At the end of the day what these idols do both male and female idols both have sexual urges and should be allowed to engage with whoever they want how they want like any other human being can to treat them differently is to treat them kess than human which is wrong

"legal" is a strong word. Just because these places find loopholes doesn't mean they're legal. Actual legal prostitution is regulated by the government and gives it's prostitutes workers rights and protection from being exploited.

As far as I'm aware Korea and most neighbouring countries have no such thing. Sex trafficking and exploitation of sex workers still runs rampant, it literally wasn't that long ago that those Brazilian kpop fans were tricked and sex trafficked into room salons with their passports being taken. They managed to barely get away as they were lucky enough to get help but there are dozens of other girls that aren't.

Even in Japan a lot of the soap houses are run by Yakuza. There's literally a video on YouTube interviewing a madam in Japan about how she manipulates young girls into prostitutes. Just because it's common and people have normalised going to these places doesn't mean they're ethical and doesn't tone down how going to these places basically supports the sex trafficking industry.

Sounds like a complex issue. I don't really have a problem with men visiting these places on their own time perse. At the same time, sex work is bad industry.

Though, with idol fans being protective about idols in regards to dating and relationships, that doesn't help stop it...

what the hell is room salon?

Its complex. Some psychologists say sex is human necessity, for example another user stated Maslow hierarchy, there may be even lots of research dedicated for it. So its hard to blame them for it. Also its not only man thing, for example there's something as rent a boyfriend etc in japan lol, and they even train and take a test to become one which is crazy. At the same time, its something far from right, and lots of women hurt and becomes victim. And it's disgusting. But personally I don't really mind for kpop idols doing it.

Anyone who visits a room salon is guilty of sx trafficking.

If men didn’t go to these places there would be no traffic and exploitation.

Doesn’t matter if it’s loophole legal.

There’s no happy hookers. Only systems who fail these women. Disgusting. Go out and find someone for the night like any normal man or have a friend with benefits.

Never heard about the brazillian kpop fans

Found the article of the Brazilian kpops

Men arrested for forcing 7 Brazilian K-pop fans to provide sex here

Five men have been arrested for forcing Brazilian women to provide sex here after cajoling them into coming to Korea by telling they could become K-pop…

m.koreatimes.co.kr

idols be like:

- can't date

- can't marry

- can't hire sex workers

I mean, when dating is prohibited with many idols/fans take a bad reaction to them I can't really blame idols for going to room salons. As long as it's protected!

Quote from russianvelvet

I mean, when dating is prohibited with many idols/fans take a bad reaction to them I can't really blame idols for going to room salons. As long as it's protected!

Protected?

As in what way protected?

Does it matter where you can buy sx?

[Herald Interview] 'Underage sex trafficking getting worse’

In March 2015, a 14-year-old girl was found dead lying on a bed in a motel in Gwanak-gu, southwestern Seoul. The victim was identified as a runaway teenager.…

m.koreaherald.com

Quote from SandyBee3

Sex work will never end. So we should at least make it as safe as possible for sex workers and give them as much rights as possible.

There is a stigma towards this job, either on the men who take the service or women who provide it. (And there has been an increase of male sex workers which many people like to ignore)

First of all we should get away from that black and white view of it. To claim that every women who works in that industry is a victim that needs rescue or to act like there aren’t any issues at all isn’t doing this discussion any justice. On top of that it’s often discussed over sex workers, for example in Korea sex workers are fighting for years to get prostitution decriminalized, but there are also those extreme cases of unthinkable abuse… so like you said it’s really complex . There are those who had very bad experiences, probably even being coerced into it, but there are also those who like their job and want it to be accepted as any other job.

So for me personally I think it’s very important to distinguish between forced prostitution and sex work and not throw it into the same pot.

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So how can the man know who is being trafficked and who is there to pay off a debt or who decided to take this job? No need to talk about it just give them rights and everything will be ok?

And yes you could argue that you can have a legal brothel and it makes everything honky dory. I’m sure any prostitute will chose that job over any other job.

Right?

They need rights allright - I think they need protection and a way out. but we are taking focus away from the huge sx trade in SK, the molka, nth room, burning sun etc.

I can’t believe women are so ok with this.

Sex trafficking in South Korea - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Quote from chounim

idols be like:

- can't date

- can't marry

- can't hire sex workers

Display More

Yes they can but their delulu fans wont have it

Btw

Sexualization and sexual exploitation in K-pop - Wikipedia

I feel more sorry for the gullible people who think men with money and power don’t visit brothels lol

What do I think about it? Sex work isn’t safe for woman esp not in all countries and there is nothing progressive about claiming so. So just to defend oppa please don’t say things like “it’s legal” just to make yourselves feel better about stanning someone.

As for my personal opinion, I don’t care to know about all the atrocities celebs take part in simply because I have no motivation to do so. So this doesn’t have much barring on me.