[theqoo/enter-talk] "ENHANCE NATIONAL PRESTIGE, 78% AGREE TO MILITARY EXEMPTION FOR BTS"

  • AVvXsEj_BlEY80AxNr0eBXrGdMBldTwY3ylaZ9LeVysXm4CwmItdcfrJU8VipDXUCOulWAm_IoBEbaihgARAsGipoOHPRI8AZ3OT8vMOc9TIoXIxZwSQ1rAasqsw_hbEyQlYGELGewRJhO4vzuL1r4S9cT0PLO9h_A9QmOv2_VnLDgpiutjOQDohpmR36wwy=s16000



    [...]

    This is why Dispatch had prepared a survey based on the knowledge of military exemption The survey had asked questions on the perspective of Korean citizens, in a fair manner. The success rate is 95% to 3%.


    91% of the people answered that promoting the country is important. 95% had answered that it is significant in cultural development. People have noted the impact on promoting the country through Kpop at 98%, and sports with 90%. BTS were chosen as the #1 contributors with (64%)


    89% of respondents agree on the need to grant benefits to those who contribute to national prestige and cultural development. 70% had agreed to a need in a reform of the policy. The majority of the people spoke out on the policy's failure to adapt to generational changes.


    78% had expressed the need to add popular culture onto the list. According to 59% of the respondents, they claim that a new criteria should be made for those who make it onto international award shows. An order of cultural merits was voted with (25%).cr.koreadispatch.com

    source: http://naver.me/x0G6XTPP


    original post: here


    1. You said that you were going to go in order and keep your word. Exemption is better in terms of equity than enlisting together, but thinking about the future, it is better for the members to go in turn.
    However, the company is the one who is making this more and more controversial
    AVvXsEi8F9qs82nlklkEtNsjzkOMyqVVaWv4-n6I4OqzMuJ-fF8zVz8kWN341pxXoB5-iIQmAXaLOYHGF3D0SACrZZ8mYWpeB3N_rrNvZXtxdbGFZDQtFOg8nMB5s3RzMiX2BHtUNr9tPXV5PwUN2araJhHh1uiT75_22TQTcW76gIADHvbHhOX8bfD8ZArp=w373-h400

    "Ooh, ooh, regarding military, we’ll enlist on our own when it’s time. Those bastards who used our names and tried to ride our coattails, to all shut up"



    2. They've been saying "we're going~~" for months already, but they're still not goingㅋㅋㅋㅋ


    3. Me too I can only agree to BTS being exempt. Everyone around me agrees to it and I think looking at this survey, people agree to it t


    4. Stop this bullsh*t and go enlist already, he's already 31 years old


    5. They're the biggest of celebrities right now, I think they'll be able to show such a cool side to them if they still decided to go


    6. If they know better, they should just enlist


    7. It's way better to just enlist cleanlyㅜㅜ I'm getting dizzy just thinking about the hate they'll receive in the future


    8. ㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ Who agreed to this?ㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ


    9. I don't agree with thisㅋㅋ Who are the ones who agreed? I bet only the fans voted for this


    10. If they were more future-oriented, they would know that enlisting is the most advantageous route to take





    [theqoo] MALE IDOLS BORN IN 1992'S ENLISTMENT RECORD


    Jan 11th Winner Lee Seunghoon - Honorable discharge from public service call
    Feb 11th Zea Kim Dongjoon - serving the Corporal service in the 1st Infantry Division of the Republic of Korea Army
    Feb 26th Oh Kwang Seok (Feeldog) - Military band sergeant full discharge
    Mar 7th BTOB Hyunsik - serving as Republic of Korea Army Capital Corps Sgt.
    Mar 13th Infinite L - serving as Republic of Korea Marine Corps Unit 1267 in service
    Mar 20th B1A4 Sandeul - serving public service
    Apr 6th Vixx Ken - Expiry discharge, Republic of Korea Army Military Academy Service Support Group Sergeant Major
    Apr 9th BlockB Ukwon - Expiry discharge, Sergeant at the Republic of Korea Army Non-commissioned Academy
    Apr 17th Pentagon Jinho - Expiry discharge, Sergeant of the Army Personnel Command's Military Music Guard Battalion
    May 6th EXO Baekhyun - serving public service
    May 18th Monsta X ShownU - serving public service
    Jun 21st KARD J.seph - Expiry discharge, Sgt. of the 6th Infantry Division, Republic of Korea
    Jul 8th BlockB Park Kyung - serving as a sergeant in the 3rd Corps of the Republic of Korea Army
    Aug 21st ex-Ftisland Seunghyun - Expiry discharge, Army 8th Corps Sgt.
    Sept 5th ex-B1A4 Baro - Expiry discharge, Army 7th Infantry Division Sergeant
    Sept 14th BlockB Zico - serving public service
    Sept 21st EXO Chen - serving in Army 56th Infantry Division full-time reserve sergeant
    Nov 4th Teentop Cap - serving in army
    Nov 11th Ftisland Minhwan - Honorary discharge Sergeant from the Republic of Korea Army full-time reserve service
    Nov 27th EXO Chanyeol - serving Corporal, 9th Infantry Division, 9th Infantry Division
    Dec 4th BTS Jin - (X) Application for a one-year delay after receiving the Order of Cultural Merit


    original post: here


    1. He needs to go


    2. Let's just play it safe and serve 18 months


    3. L is serving in the marinesㄷㄷ
    I believe that the act of enlistment will come with a huge benefit at the end


    4. Putting things like that, he really should be going, it makes me realize how late he is


    5. This sure puts things into perspectiveㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ


    6. If he knows better, he should be going. When you look at all the articles coming out, he should realize it's better for him to just go


    7. Yah f*ck even Bigbang served the army


    8. L went to the marines????


    9. They kept saying they would be going and they even got to push it until the end of the year this year, he should read the room. And what's up with this f*cked up statement of enlisting together when there's someone who's only a 97'er in the group?


    10. They said when it's time, they'd go, the end
    AVvXsEjzF0WwuE80yLbt1Do6pC0E3rmeg35GkgbIU4wM4pOIISG5LxcKIeskjmwkD5Zd2nCSacTWEsYuUl3q1NGGi_nH_LZ0mnerz-4rD87ViRTyXcyXw05WCkWiA50raUrNwMWuo3MAX2Hz9NqzY1jd1ECEg3q186d9SG7kK4_bIXIPqBhupI2fToVTHFJ8
    "Ooh, ooh, regarding military, we’ll enlist on our own when it’s time. Those bastards who used our names and tried to ride our coattails, to all shut up"





    [enter-talk] IS HYBE COMPLETELY INSANE?

    AVvXsEiZEdqVCdLuHKl_W6yfroCkyu4qVGCs2Nzs7vGOWNxnoFer_04yuq59useXhm9sb4lohPwwioyOh__mGJNUcJpSZkEeveubsf2bTX-oPbGo79pZM6Ndhz1HFkY5Uz5TY983c7UvB4ZGkIU2TKZe36leIPb48EJxSqmUVbriVa9-sxKU1I0d43vdq965
    "HYBE "BTS military service uncertainty is making things difficult... Waiting for Parliament's conclusion"

    Now the agency is stepping up to intervene in the political arena and asking for a military exemption



    AVvXsEifdVsZ8ZfXiNJCoBVly275jktuCqFkHQ1D4u_yRFplSWKuNXxyqwJdKZg2lqJv4LK-s28GILZ7Tq0VyJNBlBr7RwlRQfJueepvlOqCExc5lufvf8Ccivp1bv-ebtbtLOImqzmtGZprMyukJ8VU3Yc-jYYueW2yfCpGc4synDUluKFsVO94q8iRDTYi=s16000


    - They're a company who's earning money and pocketing for themselves.. Why do they have a say in whether they can go to the army or no?... They're earning money for themselves so they have the right to decide whether they can go to the army? ... Then shouldn't all idols be entitled to exemption? ... Let's not forget that Korea can be on the brink of war at any time... I want to ask them whether they'll be ok sending BTS to perform overseas if war breaks


    - I love BTS but they need to go to the army;;;;;; We're not in an open-air market, if they keep acting this clumsy with it, the bad repercussions will be no joke
    AVvXsEguVUsIdk_J7CWA1voeJLJ1Te9pNQbHFJ89uHWyOCGx_JsvK10LWZLB0hK2PWJjplHrvToFxgRb8uJviJ3YpkBhm5hRgX2CtfVtiS_hLovXJiBSsXu6bfvWU8yQ6m9lMjxLZJNt6Yfo-IsSF2vZsxYUQmnWtVi6VsV1qXxtgMMrCS41CfpKeGAnGZHN=s16000
    - I really feel bad for them but BTS needs to go to the army. The reason being once you grant an exception to someone, there will be no end to it. It will allow for children of politicians or wealthy children to legally test for artistry and get an exemption


    - When the first conversations about exemptions started, they said it themselves that they'd do anything to serve and not become a puppet to the politics... We were waiting for an entire year and waited for something to happen... Now it's clear that they've given up to the political circles

    AVvXsEgg2HbE9pRAw1jA_GA86RHBiFerb1pTVgzcC0y76BLGcCCcCU8T_KQqpgbs-l6NB3XCFVTP5GkkCR8n7m3am29SMepaB4tmSBBwFe95X0nDMZEO3OlB1NAdSytMkfEhs_GbgrJ-plZq-j5RqYG1JvevBTroivDJeG_OjL5kPmilBieZD_WafOBUcDG9=s16000
    - The BTS members have all grown to earn millions worth of assets, but what are they contributing to the society with all that money? In the end, they're just working for their own lives like other celebrities. Why would we grant them a benefit to do this? If you're going to act like that, then you should've granted PSY too


    post response:
    [+917][-69]
    original post: here


    1. [+369, -10]
    This company is of no help to Bangtan


    2. [+289, -8]
    Why is the company acting like that?


    3. [+278, -35]
    Right now all the kids who are agreeing to BTS' exemptions are acting like jjang-gaes (T/n: derogatory term for Chinese people)... Are your intentions to purposefully make people swear and sh*t on BTS? Even Army are against BTS' exemptions right now


    4. [+191, -67]
    I'm seriously disappointed in Jin... He said himself that he'd be enlisting but he's not practicing what he preaches. And now he's acting like he'll do whatever the company will tell him to do and he'll just shut his mouth? Meanwhile the fangirls are there desperately trying to shield them by claiming that they themselves want to go, but the company is the one holding them back. This is total bullsh*t. Right now, he's not saying anything about wanting to go to the army anymore and stated himself that the company's stance is his stance. He's hiding behind the company and waiting for an exemption. It cannot be more clear. Wow seriously what a total disappointment


    5. [+184, -60]
    Jin said himself that his stance on exemption was the same as the company's. So he's been waiting to be granted an exemption. I'm not an Army but I've listened to BTS' songs frequently. But this is just wrong.

  • The main issue here is the attitude of some people, they're acting like the BTS' members are the first ever to possibly be granted an exemption. You don't see anyone throwing a fit over x athlete or y classical musician being exempted from the military. Also, another issue is the way these politicians and government use BTS' name as a political tool whenever is convenient to them, hence why we've seen so many articles and posts about it, and none of them come from HYBE/BH.

    The fandom will be fine, I'm sure BH has plenty of pre-recorded material. I'm not worried about BTS's popularity fading away.

  • 6. If they know better, they should just enlist

    people are being too harsh, i think. but bts did mention they'd enlist when the time came so we'll have to see.

    both sides are reasonable imo, but i feel bad putting in my two cents since enlisting is a topic that koreans understand the best, and im not an ARMY.

    𝘚𝘰 𝘴𝘸𝘦𝘦𝘵, 𝘛𝘩𝘦𝘯 𝘐 𝘨𝘦𝘵 𝘢 𝘭𝘪𝘵𝘵𝘭𝘦 𝘢𝘯𝘨𝘳𝘺

  • Why are they giving this topic so many turns

    Girl just go and be over it, like one btw solo can probably genere hybe like 2m sales, do 4 of those and they are good


    Nothing good will come out of them not going btw

  • I excuse the athlete point a bit since over say musician or those in the arts/humanities sector people in athletics have a shorter top flight career potential and taking 1.5yrs from them in their competitive prime just seems wrong to me.


    With musicians it's different since a year or 2 off shouldn't have any negative impact on them or their ability to do their job at the highest level for years and years to come. I think the good sticking point is that of those classical musicians and those who win international music competitions and get exempt...


    Theirs no reason someone like that can have a exemption or delay and certain idols, esp BTS, can't since these days. I mean I feel like a top level idol group brings a lot more interest, money and spreading of Korean culture globally than any of those classic musicians.

    The law is not exactly fair, they should just add a new criteria and reform it. For classical musicians, while getting an exemption for winning an international competition is well deserved, they definitely belong to a niche market and their achievements don't make a lot of noise compared to any of the pop culture.


    Anyway, theqoo is usually filled with haters, as soon as I saw someone bring BB, I could already tell. Whatever choice the members make in the end, I'll respect it.

  • I feel like the fact that the government has been hesitant to actually make a decision is a big sign that they don't want to so they should just go.


    Smart planning from the company can minimize the impact of their enlistment. Several groups have set up the release of an album for after the members are enlisted. By utilizing pre-release singles and pre-filmed performances they could announce an album, enlist at that time, release it a month later, and still use these prepared segments to promote the album for even 6 months after they go.


    They could also hold a special concert before they go and release a live album. A compilation album of their title tracks could be cool. They could do special editions with unreleased photos from different eras.


    They're sitting on thousands of hours of Bangtan Bombs. Increase the frequency that they're posted. I don't think fans care about which era they come from. They just enjoy them. Same with dance practices... they're sitting on plenty!


    Even the use of Tiny Tan or these webtoon things or even the BU drama are ways to promote the brand and release new music/merch to continue to make money and minimize the loss of attention.


    There are smart ways to do it, but the longer they wait the harder it will become if they don't get exemption because as I said in another thread. Seventeen's oldest members will start enlisting within the next 1-2 years. I honestly don't know if they will release albums as Seventeen with less than 13 members or if they will do subunits/solo work. Having both groups minimized it not good because while TXT and Enhypen are doing well... neither can really make up for the loss of both.

    🚗💨 2 BADDIES - ALBUM OF THE YEAR 🏁🎌

    External Content open.spotify.com
    Content embedded from external sources will not be displayed without your consent.
    Through the activation of external content, you agree that personal data may be transferred to third party platforms. We have provided more information on this in our privacy policy.

  • Even if they get exempted they still have to do 4-6 weeks intensive military bootcamp like Son Heungmin. So it’s not like they won’t get trained as soldiers or something.


    Just that instead of spending 18 months, they will have to do it all in 2 months. And for people calling BTS stupid if they ever decide to take that privilege are just hating. No one called Son Heungmin or the other exemptees stupid for getting exempted. Neither did their careers flop. Some of this outrage in the comments are just from kpop stans who find it unfair that their other faves may not qualify.



    But I mostly agree with some of the opinions of the gp. Getting BTS the exemption was never the issue. It was trying to get a clear cut criteria so that others don’t take advantage of it, that prolonged the decision making

    BTS will get an exemption. It is just about time. And no one will have any problem except for some bitter dumb k-pop fans.

  • The director of Moulin Rouge even had a take on this because Elvis did his military service back when the United States had a draft (pre-1970's).

    J7m1itJm.jpg




    BUz1JbI.jpg

    "And they escorted her to a prison cell..."


  • Yeah, i think this "economy" argument makes no sense if the group does staggered enlistments. BTS isnt gonna suddenly stop making money if Jin goes to the Army. I feel like "BTS impact" is used as an excuse to justify their exemption when it really shouldnt.


    In fact, i think BTS could become even bigger and actually become individual household names in the US and elsewhere as they enter the solo/subunit world.

  • honestly, I am kind of wondering how no one has any problem when athletes and classical musicians are exempt?

    To Pikachu-Senpai, the most loving person on this forum

    The one who always supported me and others

    I will never forget you

    <3 I miss you Pikachu <3


    Whenever those days come
    You tell me how precious I am
    All those words you say
    Everything’s alright
    From nobody to somebody
    I become a very special me

    You make me feel special


    It's only winter here even in June

    Snowflakes fall down

    And fall apart little by little

    I miss you(I miss you)

    bogo shipda





















    BTS Blackpink Twice Sakura




    ezgif.com-gif-maker - 2021-06-29T174142.674.gif

  • honestly, I am kind of wondering how no one has any problem when athletes and classical musicians are exempt?


    Well for the longest time kpop idols were seen as low brow entertainers compared to athletes and traditional artists….


    Now that kpop’s influence on Korea’s economy is worth billions, now people are quickly changing their minds.


    Weird how the gp never thought about the fact foreigners aren’t visiting Korea because some Korean football player plays for a European team. Whereas international fans of kpop regularly visit Korea….

    Vachirawit “Bright” Chivaaree can get it every day all day all week every month all year for a lifetime.

    4ca3c94a140c38326868f624c2d5d1b062af8138.gifv


  • Why are they so against BTS enlisting together when that clearly makes the most sense to do, IMO? They'd really slow their careers and lessen their global and domestic impact trying to take turns while all 7 go separately or go in groups of 2-3. Just go at once, 18 months, done. That's a regular length of time for a break in any other country and fans wouldn't even think much of it.


    Do they fuss this much when someone gets an exemption for a gold medal, which doesn't have nearly as much impact, value, or usefulness? Such unusual requirements for exemption and ideas about what's culturally valuable or not valuable. I don't get it but it's not my country so oh well.

  • honestly, I am kind of wondering how no one has any problem when athletes and classical musicians are exempt?

    well im sure there are people but the difference is the standard. The criteria cant be arbitrary there has to be some set metric to set that bts meets and all other idols can meet to get the exemption. With athletes and musicians its clear win a big international competition but such a thing doesnt exist for kpop.

  • well im sure there are people but the difference is the standard. The criteria cant be arbitrary there has to be some set metric to set that bts meets and all other idols can meet to get the exemption. With athletes and musicians its clear win a big international competition but such a thing doesnt exist for kpop.

    I mean they already set one that allowed for postponement which was getting awarded the order of cultural merit. They could have used that. BTS achieved it (meaning other idols if they do what BTS has done can achieve it).

    bad decisions:borahae: ~ BTS ~ TXT ~ IU ~ :borahae:2022.08.05

    image0.gif



    942.gif






    img.gif

    ptdos_intro_vcr_ot7.gif

  • I mean they already set one that allowed for postponement which was getting awarded the order of cultural merit. They could have used that. BTS achieved it (meaning other idols if they do what BTS has done can achieve it).

    that award in itself is arbitrary thats the problem there is no set standard to get that award

  • honestly, I am kind of wondering how no one has any problem when athletes and classical musicians are exempt?

    Athletes and classical musicians who win awards/medals in international competitions are exempt. They're competing under the South Korean flag. BTS is representing themselves and HYBE.

  • Athletes and classical musicians who win awards/medals in international competitions are exempt. They're competing under the South Korean flag. BTS is representing themselves and HYBE.

    What about Son Heung min? He is competing under South Korean flag?


    BTS represents South Korea (even the Asian race), it's culture, language and people. They represented Korea internationally in UN multiple times.


    You may think it's insignificant, but in the modern world this is soft power. The survey in the OP conducted by Dispatch clearly shows the sentiments of common Korean people.

    "Overspending on my pens, that are more in number... than your fans" - Suga.

  • What about Son Heung min? He is competing under South Korean flag?


    BTS represents South Korea (even the Asian race), it's culture, language and people. They represented Korea internationally in UN multiple times.


    You may think it's insignificant, but in the modern world this is soft power. The survey in the OP conducted by Dispatch clearly shows the sentiments of common Korean people.

    Son Heung Min plays for the national team in AFC and world cup matches.

  • Son Heung Min plays for the national team in AFC and world cup matches.

    He is currently playing in Tottenham Hotspur apart from helping Korea win the Asian games... so he represented Korea and is now playing, represting and getting insane amount of money for himself. Just like BTS.


    Not to mention BTS' influence is much greater than his own... in Korea and around the world, pop or social. Thousands of international fans increase Korea's tourism just to attend their concerts or to spend vacations there.

    "Overspending on my pens, that are more in number... than your fans" - Suga.

  • He is currently playing in Tottenham Hotspur apart from helping Korea win the Asian games... so he represented Korea and is now playing, represting and getting insane amount of money for himself. Just like BTS.


    Not to mention BTS' influence is much greater than his own... in Korea and around the world, pop or social. Thousands of international fans increase Korea's tourism just to attend their concerts or to spend vacations there.

    Unlike SHM, when has BTS ever represented South Korea on the world stage?

  • At this point -- BTS do what BTS wants (also hybe coz management) but yea i think that they might wanna hold back for now


    both sides have their points but I'm waiting for that one economist to run the numbers to see which way is better for korea and bts


    Several articles already stating their influence in Korea’s economy generates billions a year.

    Vachirawit “Bright” Chivaaree can get it every day all day all week every month all year for a lifetime.

    4ca3c94a140c38326868f624c2d5d1b062af8138.gifv


  • There is lots of uncertainty to be accounted for.


    That’s the issue really… no one can predict the future. People say their impact won’t be affected by 18 months of break, but uhh…. the reason why BTS/Hybe survived the pandemic was because of continued social engagements with fans.


    People saying they should just enlist all at once. Lolol like okay goodluck with that…. plus why should they expect someone who is 24/25 to enlist just because their groupmate is of age for enlistment.

    Vachirawit “Bright” Chivaaree can get it every day all day all week every month all year for a lifetime.

    4ca3c94a140c38326868f624c2d5d1b062af8138.gifv


  • Well for the longest time kpop idols were seen as low brow entertainers compared to athletes and traditional artists….


    Now that kpop’s influence on Korea’s economy is worth billions, now people are quickly changing their minds.


    Weird how the gp never thought about the fact foreigners aren’t visiting Korea because some Korean football player plays for a European team. Whereas international fans of kpop regularly visit Korea….

    Yes that's true here idols were seen as easy entertainers an easy job. The logic behind it is you can teach anyone to be a good or great idol and have some luck with it too. Just look at it BigBang got7 exo skz ateez SHINee etc you can make them fairly easy but you can't just make an Olympic athlete. The idea behind their exemptions beyond the status was also because taking 2yrs away from their craft could seriously negatively impact their career and future. Training to be the world's best swimmer is much more difficult than being an idol you could seriously lose the talent or skills if you were to be the best swimmer where as 2yrs away from being an idol meant nothing you wouldn't forget how to dance sing act or bring in fans. Whereas these athletes or classical musicians actually could lose as their window to shine is very short

  • they said they would go so if they end up not going it will just look bad but oh well I think they can manage

    It would look more than bad we have people comparing them to steve🤡🤡🤡 that's not a good thing. As i mentioned in an earlier comment, regarding our culture a few of those unwritten rules is not going back on your word and making an excuse for something. These things will get you heavy backlash and people will ride your ass for it forever. These are sentiments that the majority hold strongly it would even sway people who are in favor of exemption. The backlash could literally render bts as " forgien" group as they tour the west and not dare promote in Korea for a long time. Seems crazy but that's our country and culture and people take this shit dead seriously

  • It would look more than bad we have people comparing them to steve🤡🤡🤡 that's not a good thing. As i mentioned in an earlier comment, regarding our culture a few of those unwritten rules is not going back on your word and making an excuse for something. These things will get you heavy backlash and people will ride your ass for it forever. These are sentiments that the majority hold strongly it would even sway people who are in favor of exemption. The backlash could literally render bts as " forgien" group as they tour the west and not dare promote in Korea for a long time. Seems crazy but that's our country and culture and people take this shit dead seriously

    Yeah true

    Also the surveys like the one in the op doesn't mean much , they are basically hit or miss

    It depends on how many people filled in the survey

    If it's just few hundreds or 1000 , it's not enough , it may reflect the overal mood regarding BTS enlistment and it may not

    I remember our goverment election few years ago , plenty of surveys like this were made but in the end the results were completely different lmao but then many times these surveys were accurate too so it's hard to tell

  • Unlike SHM, when has BTS ever represented South Korea on the world stage?

    Haven’t they been Seoul ambassadors for 5 years straight? I heard they don’t even receive pay for that. And when the government invites BTS for diplomacy, they do it for free. Their France Korean exhibition was paid out of their own pockets. Nor did they receive payments for going to the UN to represent their country. They literally let the Korean tourism organization use their concerts as avenues to promote Korea to their fans, something they don’t receive payment for either


    Koreans themselves on multiple occasions have said that BTS represents them and makes them feel pride. In pop culture, BTS has represented Korea to a large extent. I don’t know what more they can do in their sphere

  • This thread contains 31 more posts that have been hidden for guests, please register yourself or login to continue reading.

Participate now!

Don’t have an account yet? Register yourself now and be a part of our community!