K-pop groups should really stop trying to hit the western market when…

Feel better now? Lol

Well at leas t we do know there is one major figure in KPop who is not knoking the door

Actually, before the streaming era hot 100 runs were much shorter. Hitting #1 for a long time and then slipping off the chart was relatively common a few decades ago.

but that's the entire premise of promotion no?

like you promote to hopefully try to capture a different audience from the standard/normal fans to convince or encourage people who don't normally listen to your music to hopefully give it a shot no?

like sure 99% of the people might not give a damn but even if that 1% thinks hey who are these people - I like the song maybe I'll give them a shot that's worth it no?

Kpop is expanding and I don't see why they shouldn't promote if they have the chance.

Quote from P_rince

clearly no one cares at all besides the 1% of it. I don’t care whose feelings I’m gonna hurt but this is the truth and yes, I am including my favorite groups in this too. When groups get invited by show hosts or always debuts their new songs on it, you’re benefitting the show host more actually than the group unless there is ACTUALLY some controversial or dramatic actions made like Ashlee Simpson losing her career over that lip sync and that Milli Vanilli case, that way artists are the ones who benefit in a way that their name gets more widely known. It’s also a good way to profit off it by shaking up some controversy and releasing a song only for people to be curious and search their names up.

One factual thing is, no matter how big the kpop group is, the audience is not gonna give any fucks. They’re there for a sole purpose, its not to listen to a band they don’t know of. And that’s why you mostly hear screams and those are that 1% of fans.

I‘m not gonna use the “I love my favorite groups but…” excuse and bs

I’m straight up gonna say the western gp aint gaf about my favorite groups, your favorite groups and kpop groups in general. Deal with it. The hot 100 is just one major significant example. Take Butter and Good 4 You as an example. I don’t think there has been any song in history which spend 11 weeks at no.1 but only spend 20 weeks in the top 100. Big sign of red flag generated cause of multiple versions, mass buying and a lot of money is given from fans residing in Asia while Good For You is still smashing the Top 10. And take note G4u was released earlier than Butter. This makes billboard look like a joke. I don’t care what hatred you have towards me, feel free to leave opinions.

You do realize that there is more to having BTS presence (or any group for that matter) known than just being in the Billboard, right? Let me just focus on BTS on this premise. Even before charting high on the Billboard, BTS was doing great and amazingly on tours. Tours make money. They have a LOT of fans in the USA alone. 4 days of this upcoming So-Fi concerts will have 280K fans at probably an average rate of $150 per person plus merch . . . you do the math. There's mutual love and respect for artistry between BTS and Army but ARMY know this is also business.

Before pandemic strike in 2020, they were supposed to do 15 stadium tours, in the US, with between 40k to 90K capacity for each stadium. Again, do the math. Why would anyone be stupid not to promote in the west if they can get even a small percentage of fans' interest and hopefully be able to do the tours to make money?

Why should BTS give a f*ck that western stans don't like them when there are people who are willing to see them live in concerts multiple times in the US and some parts of Europe? Niche, maybe? But BTS ain't stupid! They give their best performance every time and they are rewarded for it by their fans.

Oh, and by the way, people who are charting high on the Billboard longer than BTS are having sluggish ticket sales for their upcoming concerts even on a much smaller venues. Who's winning now?

even the 1% brings hella lot of money to them so I don't mind lol

Where is common sense in this thread? You promote to get more known. You perform for people who care and don't give a damn about those who don't. People can like or dislike things but they atleast have an opinion. Without promotions your work is never gonna be seen or heard to have an opinion.

Everything you said in OP is wrong and doesn't make sense at all.

Quote from selfmate

but that's the entire premise of promotion no?

like you promote to hopefully try to capture a different audience from the standard/normal fans to convince or encourage people who don't normally listen to your music to hopefully give it a shot no?

like sure 99% of the people might not give a damn but even if that 1% thinks hey who are these people - I like the song maybe I'll give them a shot that's worth it no?

Most kpop fans don't work nor have been to the real world to know this selfmate lol....

Quote from Nutcraker

You do realize that there is more to having BTS presence (or any group for that matter) known than just being in the Billboard, right? Let me just focus on BTS on this premise. Even before charting high on the Billboard, BTS was doing great and amazingly on tours. Tours make money. They have a LOT of fans in the USA alone. 4 days of this upcoming So-Fi concerts will have 280K fans at probably an average rate of $150 per person plus merch . . . you do the math. There's mutual love and respect for artistry between BTS and Army but ARMY know this is also business.

Before pandemic strike in 2020, they were supposed to do 15 stadium tours, in the US, with between 40k to 90K capacity for each stadium. Again, do the math. Why would anyone be stupid not to promote in the west if they can get even a small percentage of fans' interest and hopefully be able to do the tours to make money?

Why should BTS give a f*ck that western stans don't like them when there are people who are willing to see them live in concerts multiple times in the US and some parts of Europe? Niche, maybe? But BTS ain't stupid! They give their best performance every time and they are rewarded for it by their fans.

Oh, and by the way, people who are charting high on the Billboard longer than BTS are having sluggish ticket sales for their upcoming concerts even on a much smaller venues. Who's winning now?

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OP using BTS to make their point is dumb af. BTS are the prime example why everyone is promoting in the west. Everyone has seen how BTS went from nobodies to the biggest artist in the world. They have gained an audience for kpop in the west and everyone is only hoping to get some of it to tune into them.

Also BTS have always said they don't want to be mainstream here in the US. They just wanna tour stadiums and perform for the fans that they have here. They don't care about "GP" in America. I'm happy that they don't. Because those who have "GP" cannot sell stadiums at all lol....

I suggest you do some more research on the bb hot 100 chart OP. The reason why 99.9% of songs charting in the hot 100 isn't because they are pulling amazing streaming and sales numbers. It is because of radioplay. And radioplay comes from western lables PAYING radio statons.

If you don't have decent radioplay, you don't last in that chart. Which is what happened with BTS.

I think people focus way too much on the "world domination" thing.

Kpop is a niche. It's simple to recognize that. Not everyone will like it, but many will.

As long as Kpop acts have fans enough to hold a decent world tour, that's fine.

What I don't like is the anonymity. Promoting on TV does help, at least a bit.

Quote from onlyfacts

OP using BTS to make their point is dumb af. BTS are the prime example why everyone is promoting in the west. Everyone has seen how BTS went from nobodies to the biggest artist in the world.

Also BTS have always said they don't want to be mainstream here in the US. They just wanna tour stadiums and perform for the fans that they have here. They don't care about "GP" in America.

The true GP does not know many current artists in America. The true GP is people who don't listen/barely listen to music or listen to music only from other countries and are just normal people with jobs.

The GP thinks that the things playing on the radio 24/7 and spammed onto their spotify playlists is what is popular because they don't care enough to go and search up popular songs.

The only person everyone in the GP circle knows for sure is Michael Jackson(no suprise there, he is the king of pop for a reason)

BTS are one of the few acts that managed to touch the true GP a little bit without having to go radio and playlist spamming. That's what you call true impact.

In short, GP isn't pressed western stans on twt who will do anything to find a reason to hate on bts.

Quote from ArmyBlink0

The true GP does not know many current artists in America. The true GP is people who don't listen/barely listen to music or listen to music only from other countries and are just normal people with jobs.

The GP thinks that the things playing on the radio 24/7 and spammed onto their spotify playlists is what is popular because they don't care enough to go and search up popular songs.

The only person the everyone in the GP circle knows for sure is Michael Jackson(no suprise there, he is the king of pop for a reason)

BTS are one of the few acts that managed to touch the true GP a little bit without having to go radio and playlist spamming. That's what you call true impact.

In short, GP isn't pressed western stans on twt who will do anything to find a reason to hate on bts.

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You know what? Just go to my profile and search term "GP", all of what you just said in this post is what I always say when kpop fans talk about "GP" lol....

I'm advocate of "GP" does not exist and I'm happy to see more of the same. "GP" is a faux term created by kpop fans to push their agendas. So I personally don't give a damn about "GP". There are either fans, casual fans or non fans for me. Not more than that.

Rn, the western GP probably only cares about a few select artists. Does that mean smaller artists should just stop releasing music? No because there’s actually market space for everyone to make a decent profit.

The western market can be lucrative if you find your niche, sure maybe k-pop will never be very mainstream with GP, but companies don’t care about that, there is clearly still a decent amount of fans for k-pop available (and thus profit to be made). I’d compare k-pop to country music, which I would say is a niche but is massive in the US.

Like it’s not just be Olivia Rodrigo or don’t make music in the US, you can still have a successful career.

Also it’s not like idols are very popular with the Korean GP atm anyway, so why not take chances if there’s a chance to make potentially more money from the biggest music market in the world?

Boy, you would be a horrible CEO, i tell you that.

The embarrassment I am feeling for OP after reading the thread and comments... WOW!  

Quote from P_rince

Take Butter and Good 4 You as an example. I don’t think there has been any song in history which spend 11 weeks at no.1 but only spend 20 weeks in the top 100. Big sign of red flag generated cause of multiple versions, mass buying and a lot of money is given from fans residing in Asia while Good For You is still smashing the Top 10. And take note G4u was released earlier than Butter. This makes billboard look like a joke.

Billboard was already a joke once they started allowing bundles to count for BB200.

Also this whole section is a thinly-veiled attempt to call out BTS when Billboard's musty ass already tried to call them on it, and Namjoon straight up said change your rules if you want a fairer chart. Until BB prizes "fairness" on the charts, ARMYs will continue to use the system BB created against them.

At the end of the day, the only really relevant Kpop group in the US is BTS. BP is getting there.

Quote from ArmyBlink0

The true GP does not know many current artists in America. The true GP is people who don't listen/barely listen to music or listen to music only from other countries and are just normal people with jobs.

The GP thinks that the things playing on the radio 24/7 and spammed onto their spotify playlists is what is popular because they don't care enough to go and search up popular songs.

The only person everyone in the GP circle knows for sure is Michael Jackson(no suprise there, he is the king of pop for a reason)

BTS are one of the few acts that managed to touch the true GP a little bit without having to go radio and playlist spamming. That's what you call true impact.

In short, GP isn't pressed western stans on twt who will do anything to find a reason to hate on bts.

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Screw OP, I give you best answer!

Streaming has changed the way we consumed music and is what is allowing indie genre's and things like KPOP to be successful without the "GP" approval.

Kaskade has 1 song on the hot 100 and it was 94, yet he has the largest crowd ever at coachella going around 100K.

KPOP can follow the EDM scene, niche following that can easily fill stadiums, concerts, events, etc

and remember what JYP spoke about in 2.0 presentation

But when it comes to hard copy albums, only the true loyal fans would purchase them. If album sales are good, it directly leads to concert profits. That’s because when you’re a fan loyal enough to buy albums, you go to a concert and you buy your artist’s merchandise.

– Park Jinyoung

Digital streaming can still bring large attention as long as the music is popular. It’s like you would still listen to good music even if you are not a fan of the musician. As such, digital streaming is not as important [as physical album sales].

– Park Jinyoung

Quote from penguinsgg

KPOP can follow the EDM scene, niche following that can easily fill stadiums, concerts, events, etc

EDM was my first musical love, so I'd be happy to see K-pop follow after it.

The same goes for Korean GP, the great majority disregards idols. So what

I think all of us are the "GP" to some extent until we get into a group. It's like, we are not the "GP" for our favorite K-pop artists, but we can be for another group we don't know and there's always the possibility that their promotion on West reach us and we stop being the "GP" for this other group too.

idc about bts i just JYPE to stop with this western obsession he is doing same mistakes that he did with WG to Itzy and I don’t like it

Quote from ArmyBlink0

I suggest you do some more research on the bb hot 100 chart OP. The reason why 99.9% of songs charting in the hot 100 isn't because they are pulling amazing streaming and sales numbers. It is because of radioplay. And radioplay comes from western lables PAYING radio statons.

If you don't have decent radioplay, you don't last in that chart. Which is what happened with BTS.

But it’s not always the labels who pay radio if you have a great callout you will get played which means the GP is liking the song

and it takes time to have an audience the songs who have a lot radio are usually pulling big streams and sales the more your songs get popular the more you will get played

Quote from killthisfenty

But it’s not always the labels who pay radio if you have a great callout you will get played which means the GP is liking the song

and it takes time to have an audience the songs who have a lot radio are usually pulling big streams and sales the more your songs get popular the more you will get played

then why is this song that is barely requested been playing on my radio despite almost a year passing since its release.

The western industry isn't as innocent as it seems. Most of the songs being played on radio are from labels paying humongous amounts of money.

At the end of the day most musical genres in the West are niches, particularly in the US. But those niches are still making a shit ton of money - there are a lot of very rich country stars, as one specific genre example. Within their niche, they are well known, but you can look at the year end Billboard sales data to see it’s still a niche.

You don’t have to be the top group in the West or even outside of the Kpop niche to make a very very nice amount of money. These companies are in business to make money and they will capitalize on all the opportunities to make it.

There is this tendency by Kpop fans to be dismissive of fandom-driven sales vs GP driven sales. In most businesses, a core of loyal customers drive a business’ sales. While acquiring new customers is a positive and a target, most businesses understand that existing “loyals” are critical to brand health. (Plus customer acquisition costs are much higher than customer retention costs. In other words, it’s expensive to gain new people.)

Similarly, as many groups have shown inside and outside of Kpop, it is the long term loyals (fandom) who continue to drive a groups’ sales. As I’ve pointed out before, the most successful tours in the US in the year prior to the pandemic were primarily entertainers who no longer appear on the Billboard charts but have a passionate fanbase who still go to their tours and spend a lot to support them.

Quote from ArmyBlink0

then why is this song that is barely requested been playing on my radio despite almost a year passing since its release.

The western industry isn't as innocent as it seems. Most of the songs being played on radio are from labels paying humongous amounts of money.

This is why i cant take the Hot 100 seriously. How can a "reputable" chart be based on literal payola? You cant trust any artist's radio numbers unless they are literal nugu that isnt signed to any labels and has no distribution deals, the artist has to be so nugu he or she only has a YT channel and that's it.

Maybe if radio airplay only counted for like 5 percent of Hot 100 points i could be ok with it but apparently it has a much bigger impact.

Quote from the101

At the end of the day most musical genres in the West are niches, particularly in the US. But those niches are still making a shit ton of money - there are a lot of very rich country stars, as one specific genre example. Within their niche, they are well known, but you can look at the year end Billboard sales data to see it’s still a niche.

You don’t have to be the top group in the West or even outside of the Kpop niche to make a very very nice amount of money. These companies are in business to make money and they will capitalize on all the opportunities to make it.

There is this tendency by Kpop fans to be dismissive of fandom-driven sales vs GP driven sales. In most businesses, a core of loyal customers drive a business’ sales. While acquiring new customers is a positive and a target, most businesses understand that existing “loyals” are critical to brand health. (Plus customer acquisition costs are much higher than customer retention costs. In other words, it’s expensive to gain new people.)

Similarly, as many groups have shown inside and outside of Kpop, it is the long term loyals (fandom) who continue to drive a groups’ sales. As I’ve pointed out before, the most successful tours in the US in the year prior to the pandemic were primarily entertainers who no longer appear on the Billboard charts but have a passionate fanbase who still go to their tours and spend a lot to support them.

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According to the RIAA, the US music industry recorded 12.2 BILLION USD in revenue for 2020.

Even if Kpop managed just 1 percent market share, that is 120 MILLION USD. That's a shitload for Kpop labels.

Quote from BlackpinkHouse

This is why i cant take the Hot 100 seriously. How can a "reputable" chart be based on literal payola? You cant trust any artist's radio numbers unless they are literal nugu that isnt signed to any labels and has no distribution deals, the artist has to be so nugu he or she only has a YT channel and that's it.

Maybe if radio airplay only counted for like 5 percent of Hot 100 points i could be ok with it but apparently it has a much bigger impact.

pretty sure it has the highest impact. Radio is worth more points on the hot 100, a sales chart, than streams and sales.

Quote from P_rince

clearly no one cares at all besides the 1% of it. I don’t care whose feelings I’m gonna hurt but this is the truth and yes, I am including my favorite groups in this too. When groups get invited by show hosts or always debuts their new songs on it, you’re benefitting the show host more actually than the group unless there is ACTUALLY some controversial or dramatic actions made like Ashlee Simpson losing her career over that lip sync and that Milli Vanilli case, that way artists are the ones who benefit in a way that their name gets more widely known. It’s also a good way to profit off it by shaking up some controversy and releasing a song only for people to be curious and search their names up.

One factual thing is, no matter how big the kpop group is, the audience is not gonna give any fucks. They’re there for a sole purpose, its not to listen to a band they don’t know of. And that’s why you mostly hear screams and those are that 1% of fans.

I‘m not gonna use the “I love my favorite groups but…” excuse and bs

I’m straight up gonna say the western gp aint gaf about my favorite groups, your favorite groups and kpop groups in general. Deal with it. The hot 100 is just one major significant example. Take Butter and Good 4 You as an example. I don’t think there has been any song in history which spend 11 weeks at no.1 but only spend 20 weeks in the top 100. Big sign of red flag generated cause of multiple versions, mass buying and a lot of money is given from fans residing in Asia while Good For You is still smashing the Top 10. And take note G4u was released earlier than Butter. This makes billboard look like a joke. I don’t care what hatred you have towards me, feel free to leave opinions.

Ok so does this apply to BTS? Because I don't think it applies to BTS. Everyone in kpop is saying if they can do it we can do it

Quote from kazuyakamenashi

Ok so does this apply to BTS? Because I don't think it applies to BTS. Everyone in kpop is saying if they can do it we can do it

Yeah, it's kinda silly to complain about "no one knowing kpop in the US" and then go after the one group that has achieved mainstream success there

Quote from Minazuki

I think all of us are the "GP" to some extent until we get into a group. It's like, we are not the "GP" for our favorite K-pop artists, but we can be for another group we don't know and there's always the possibility that their promotion on West reach us and we stop being the "GP" for this other group too.

You right now

Quote from the101

At the end of the day most musical genres in the West are niches, particularly in the US. But those niches are still making a shit ton of money - there are a lot of very rich country stars, as one specific genre example. Within their niche, they are well known, but you can look at the year end Billboard sales data to see it’s still a niche.

You don’t have to be the top group in the West or even outside of the Kpop niche to make a very very nice amount of money. These companies are in business to make money and they will capitalize on all the opportunities to make it.

There is this tendency by Kpop fans to be dismissive of fandom-driven sales vs GP driven sales. In most businesses, a core of loyal customers drive a business’ sales. While acquiring new customers is a positive and a target, most businesses understand that existing “loyals” are critical to brand health. (Plus customer acquisition costs are much higher than customer retention costs. In other words, it’s expensive to gain new people.)

Similarly, as many groups have shown inside and outside of Kpop, it is the long term loyals (fandom) who continue to drive a groups’ sales. As I’ve pointed out before, the most successful tours in the US in the year prior to the pandemic were primarily entertainers who no longer appear on the Billboard charts but have a passionate fanbase who still go to their tours and spend a lot to support them.

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Just look at SuJu selling 400k+ after 16 years and with their own sublabel. That's what companies want.

Quote from MassiveKpopFan

Just look at SuJu selling 400k+ after 16 years and with their own sublabel. That's what companies want.

They haven't gained a huge amount of fans, but they haven't lost their loyal fanbase either, which is great.

Quote from killthisfenty

idc about bts i just JYPE to stop with this western obsession he is doing same mistakes that he did with WG to Itzy and I don’t like it

when did it start? since Not Shy?

I wish OP would come back and explain the point of this post. It appears to me that everyone came to unanimous opinion that even niche groups, big or small, should continue to promote themselves in the west to "get a little piece of the pie". I'm just curious to know what OP meant when he started this thread as his reasoning was a little vague.

lol, not you coming for the one kpop group actually making any noise in the us.

guess selling out stadia multiple days in the same city, something only a handful of global artists can do, isn't enough proof for their organic demand.

but,

i do agree about kpop, in general, still being incredible niche in the us (and the rest of the west).