Does "It Girl" status even matter any more?

I ask this question in the context of group success. It obviously matters for the individual idol, because of the bags they get from all the endorsements, but unless you're an akgae fan (cringe), It Girl is one of the dumbest things to argue over.

It actually has nearly zero correlation to the success and fame of the group, and sometimes it can even HARM the group (see Miss A).

In fact, I'm struggling to think of any examples of group popularity getting massively boosted by an It Girl member. It definitely didn't help Gugudan.

I know it's in our DNA as passionate fans to compete over everything, but I've never seen a point in arguing over this, outside of people disrespecting or disregarding the popularity of an idol (like what happens with Hwasa all the time).

Quote from OnceMidzy4ever

I never bought this thing about Suzy popularity hurts Miss A. What other it girls popularity make damage to their groups? The only guilty here was JYP incompetence.

Suzy vastly overshadowed Miss A as a group, and it turned into Suzy and the Girls. You can debate the tangible harm it caused the group, but if I wanted my group to be as successful as possible, that perception and reality would be far from ideal.

Quote from kingkook

The it girl topic matters just as much as a topic about kpop groups' popularity. Both are discussions about fame and money.

It's much easier to quantify group success. We have charts and graphs and sales figures to make group comparisons a relatively simple process compared to the ambiguous and nebulous methods people use to compare It Girls.

Quote from LilacGirl

Solo popularity definitely adds to group popularity. It may overshadow other members individually but it actually plays well for groups (esp for non-big4 companies) and future solo debut success.

For example Wonyoung - whatever group she was going to debut in would have huge boost thanks to her solo fanbase, same case would have been for Somi if she didn't go solo. Even that upcoming Ella gross girl is generating buzz for TBL group.

Now if that popularity turns in to a hit (like BP) or miss (like Miss A) is up to company marketing/promo tactics.

You think so? I could see a short term boost from the popularity of an individual member, but I don't see it having any long term positive impact on a group.

I can use third generation idols as an example.

Sejeong was and still is massively popular and a rising star actress. Her popularity did nothing for Gugudan, which disbanded.

Nayeon had one of the biggest hits of 2022 with Pop, but it didn't translate to any boost in Twice's domestic charting.

Hwasa was the highest ranked female idol on the 2023 Gallup Survey, but her individual popularity didn't boost Mamamoo's charting performance when they came back in 2022.

The only example I can think of where the rise of an individual idol directly correlated to the rise of the group is Hani with EXID. But those were very, very unique circumstances, and not a traditional "It Girl" scenario.

Quote from QueenMaknae27

More than often, it helps the group. Aside from Miss A has there really been another cases like that?

Why don't you give examples of it helping the group

Quote from catzi

Once, tokki... Always a fandom with no it girls in the group saying that it girl doesn't matter lol

I'm literally a MooMoo, and Hwasa is an It Girl. I even used Mamamoo as an example.

Literally trying to start a fanwar for no reason, and I'm sure you, and a few others, would victim cosplay and try to paint me as thebadguy if I reacted in kind.

Quote from catzi

Once, tokki... Always a fandom with no it girls in the group saying that it girl doesn't matter lol

Your takes have about as much depth as the shallow side of a kiddie pool.

I promise nobody is targeting Wonyoung. You can stop white knighting.

Quote from OnceMidzy4ever

DIsagree. THe popularity of Suzy dont harm the group. It was JYP incompetence. Many companies manage to use this as an advantage, only stupid JYP turned this into a disvantage.

So do you think it's a positive when a member's individual brand gets exponentially more popular than the group brand?

I can't see any positives.

Quote from QueenMaknae27

Sure, if you give me akorns

Sure. If you pay for my name change

Quote from DaisyTheGenuine

solo careers bring in outside fans who would have normally probably not been interested in the group.

I think a group's shelf life to bring in new fans, especially a girl groups, is limited to 2-3 after their peak. Groups without popular members usually don't do as well long term

Mamamoo outlasted GFriend public interest wise

Blackpink and Red Velvet outlasted Twice

And there's the obvious factor of the It Girl/most popular member carrying the group in sales, especially c-cars like Wonyoung, Haerin, Karina etc

Display More

The impact on raw sales isn't something I considered as much as other metrics. That is a good point and a very objective metric that solo stans impact.

Since we're talking girl groups, I always think digitals first, charting and streaming, and I think It Girls have very limited impact there.

Quote from QueenMaknae27

You're finally going to change it as YamaToken?

Fund the change and find out

Quote from QueenMaknae27

I'm poor af

Sounds like a personal problem

Quote from DaisyTheGenuine

More fans = more streams

Look at I've. Now imagine how they'd be without the Izone girls. Case closed

Why didn't that work for Gugudan? Sejeong was in I.O.I. and is an extremely popular idol and now actress.

Quote from DaisyTheGenuine

1. Their music

2. Jellyfish

3. IoI fans did not appreciate members leaving early to join other groups

4. Gugudan finally dying is the reason Sejeong could finally blow up the way she did. She was always popular but not as popular.

Viral members have changed the trajectory of plenty of other groups, EXID, Girl's Day, AOA

Display More

My retort to that would be that Itt Girls at best provide a temporary boost and increased visibility for the group, but the long term impact is minimal if not non existent.

Hani's infamous viral fancam absolutely elevated EXID and literally saved their careers, but a year later, when Hani is collecting brand endorsements and on every other variety show, how much is that benefitting the group as opposed to just benefitting Hani?

Quote from ISaidISaid

No and Yes

A group that’s both successful as a group and also having an IT girls is the best case scenario.

But is it necessary for groups to survive? Not any more. Look at twice, they can tour so decisively that it doesn’t even matter.

Having kpop grow so big internationally and have GGs build fandoms that buy albums and attend their tours has eliminated the “need” for IT girls. It’s a good to have thing but not a “need”.

Display More

I will say this is a well timed point in light of Hanni becoming a brand ambassador for Uggs and getting a giant painted advertisement on the side of a building in the heart of LA

Quote from thelightoftruth

I think that having a popular member is usually more beneficial than not. That said, can't really generalise either way for all groups.

With Sejeong, I think Gugudan would have flopped far worse without her and they may have been disbanded even earlier. With Nayeon, I think that it was less impactful as Twice was already so far in to their career and they've never been pushed individually. I'd also say that their it girl was Sana earlier on when they were really blowing up.

Suzy might be the only "negative" case of having an "it" girl, and you could argue that Miss A would have lost their relevance even earlier without her individual success.

When it comes to the Big 4 groups I do think it's a bit less impactful as they will always get great opportunities for public recognition anyway.

I think the easiest way to answer this question though is to look at the top groups in each gen and see how many didn't have an it girl/exceptionally popular member.

1st and 2nd gen groups all had their star members. Hyori, Eugene, Yoona/Taeyon, CL, Sohee, Hara, Jiyeon, Naeun, Krystal, Suzy, Hyuna

From 3rd gen, maybe only Gfriend? Otherwise you have Jennie/Lisa, Sana, Irene, Hwasa, Seolhyun, Hani, Arin, even maybe the likes of Nancy or Cheng Xiao when their groups were at their most popular. Actually, Yerin was everywhere at some point when Gfriend were on the rise.

Display More

Fair points. I was just about to say Yerin was everywhere circa 2016, but GFriend as a group was too, especially after that infamous slippery giant moth stage

Quote from DaisyTheGenuine

Well they were still a group, finally getting paid, their songs were charting and gave Solji the opportunity to blow up on her own so...

An it girl can't save a group by herself, so some of it does come down to management, which EXID pretty famously never had much of.

All the articles being written about It Girls give greater exposure to the whole group. It's not Hani, it's EXID Hani, or Girl's Day Hyeri, Aespa Karina.

They're celebrities, attention is their life blood. A famous member can't hurt.

Display More

I mean, I more or less agreed with the points you laid out. My pivot point was just how much of a boost "It Girls" give to a group long term.

You did a good job laying out how it helps groups establish themselves, and it actually convinced me, which we both know is hard to do, but I think the law of diminishing returns kicks in at some point.

Quote from icyruios

I thought it's kinda common sense that it matters

You say it harms miss A and gugudan.

Imagine IF they didn't have Suzy or Sejong the group will be EVEN WORSE OFF

And yet I can also find groups that have thrived without an It Girl, like (G)I-DLE and LSF.