Money is so successful !!

The comments on the site defending SM saying they don't care about western validation

HYBE groups are mega successful

and that doesn't even count the AM, which is where HYBE groups and JK are very dominant.

Yes people need to stream SM acts more

Basing on the concepts they've managed to give their idols after Snsd,it's very clear that SM doesn't care so much about the GP who are crucial in streaming.

Unfortunately or fortunately, SM prefers huge and loyal fanbases that they can milk and use to cement longevity for their idols for decades.

Quote from sonemariam

Basing on the concepts they've managed to give their idols after Snsd,it's very clear that SM doesn't care so much about the GP who are crucial in streaming.

Unfortunately or fortunately, SM prefers huge and loyal fanbases that they can milk and use to cement longevity for their idols for decades.

I don’t think so SM wants western validation but wants the groups with the least western appeal to hit big that’s why RV & Exo never got pushed despite being among the most popular internationally acts during their peak.

Quote from sonemariam

Basing on the concepts they've managed to give their idols after Snsd,it's very clear that SM doesn't care so much about the GP who are crucial in streaming.

Unfortunately or fortunately, SM prefers huge and loyal fanbases that they can milk and use to cement longevity for their idols for decades.

Mmmmm, but they can have both though. Army and blinks are the two biggest fandoms right now and a lot greater than any fandom that SM has had. Both acts have fandom and GP attention. Looks like SM needs to learn…..

Quote from Look-Me-Up

Mmmmm, but they can have both though. Army and blinks are the two biggest fandoms right now and a lot greater than any fandom that SM has had. Both acts have fandom and GP attention. Looks like SM needs to learn…..

Do their idols have weird concepts like Ae stuff, Red and Velvet, Exo, NCT and release the most experimental Kpop music ever with all kinds of lyrics like SM idols?

I don't think so.

While other labels want both, SM puts fandoms first and leaves GP support up to luck.

Quote from killthisfenty

I don’t think so SM wants western validation but wants the groups with the least western appeal to hit big that’s why RV & Exo never got pushed despite being among the most popular internationally acts during their peak.

Lack of promotions for Exo and RV in the west and with them doing only 1 or 2 fan meetings and a few concerts is another issue why their music isn't streamed that much that side.

If SM wanted to make it in the west so bad, Exo and RV we're their best bets but they did not use them. SM can't even promote them right in Japan.

Nct, SuperM and Aespa have complicated music and concepts for the west leave alone Asia. It's not everyone's cup of tea.

SM literally created their own niche music in the already niche Kpop market.

Quote from Minazuki

The comments on the site defending SM saying they don't care about western validation

That's weird. What about Jopping?

Quote from sonemariam

Basing on the concepts they've managed to give their idols after Snsd,it's very clear that SM doesn't care so much about the GP who are crucial in streaming.

Unfortunately or fortunately, SM prefers huge and loyal fanbases that they can milk and use to cement longevity for their idols for decades.

Can't they have both? SM doesn't want more growth, more profit?

Quote from Flowercrew

That's weird. What about Jopping?

it's not just jopping but the group that was made specially to target western market; aespa's macy parade and coachella performances and full english singles. ofc they care about western market. saying they don't care about it is delusional lol

Quote from sonemariam

Nct, SuperM and Aespa have complicated music and concepts for the west leave alone Asia. It's not everyone's cup of tea.

SuperM? The one SM touted as “The Avengers of Kpop”? That was assembled from 3 different gens of the most popular members of SM BGs and sent of to the west? That SuperM?

I'd say YG is joining SM soon but BM streams are so far promising

Quote from Flowercrew

Can't they have both? SM doesn't want more growth, more profit?

Not with the way they do sh*t with their idols.

Quote from nevermindmejin

SuperM? The one SM touted as “The Avengers of Kpop”? That was assembled from 3 different gens of the most popular members of SM BGs and sent of to the west? That SuperM?

I kinda miss them though.

Their discography was solid.

Quote from lialve

All sm groups promote internationally very soon after they debut. They def do care.

Soon after? Only Aespa did that.

selfmate come see how SM is doing. Is it because you got kicked out?

The most likely candidates that could have charted were EXO and to some extent red velvet. But EXO never released any English version or tried to promote in the west and then they just enlisted lol and that’s that. Concepts like NCT and Aespa are unlikable but it’s not because SM isn’t “trying”. It’s because SM is failing in knowing what the west likes musically and conceptually.

They have terrible vision for their groups and this won’t change in the near future.

Quote from ISaidISaid

The most likely candidates that could have charted were EXO and to some extent red velvet. But EXO never released any English version or tried to promote in the west and then they just enlisted lol and that’s that. Concepts like NCT and Aespa are unlikable but it’s not because SM isn’t “trying”. It’s because SM is failing in knowing what the west likes musically and conceptually.

They have terrible vision for their groups and this won’t change in the near future.

Hybe acquisition would have sorted things out, if they managed to get Seventeen on track of international charting they could have done the same with Aespa, Rizze and NCT Dream

Kakao though is even more clueless than SM. IVE international results are getting worse and worse. No bright future for SM. The company still rellying heavily in China and Korea and keep failing to get a proper huge group in Japan. China touring ban still not lifted and with even Chinese sales decreasing SM is becoming more and more restricted in international appeal and popularity

Quote from Icaro_Ribeiro

Hybe acquisition would have sorted things out, if they managed to get Seventeen on track of international charting they could have done the same with Aespa, Rizze and NCT Dream

Kakao though is even more clueless than SM. IVE international results are getting worse and worse. No bright future for SM. The company still rellying heavily in China and Korea and keep failing to get a proper huge group in Japan. China touring ban still not lifted and with even Chinese sales decreasing SM is becoming more and more restricted in international appeal and popularity

But for creativity it’s better. One company controlling everything might have made kpop too bland. Even if they flop they sound different and imo that’s worth something in the grand scheme of things. Broad appeal isn’t everything at the end of the day after all.

SM is just clueless. Bad Boy enters US Spotify years before HYBE started their massive push in the West with BTS and they never capitalize on it

Ignoring Thirsty and not pushing it overseas when it's similar to the type of music their competitors are smashing with (NJ, LSF) was another missed opportunity

Quote from Nevaeh14

SM is just clueless. Bad Boy enters US Spotify years before HYBE started their massive push in the West with BTS and they never capitalize on it

Ignoring Thirsty and not pushing it overseas when it's similar to the type of music their competitors are smashing with (NJ, LSF) was another missed opportunity

@@@01e5db36-1241-4df4-abcd-3ff690a84d43@@@ by RV released = 2018

BTS western push = 2017

Quote from ISaidISaid

But for creativity it’s better. One company controlling everything might have made kpop too bland. Even if they flop they sound different and imo that’s worth something in the grand scheme of things. Broad appeal isn’t everything at the end of the day after all.

Seventeen music didn't change much after Hybe, they just gave them better budget, promotion, distribution and touring outside few markers. Hybe works closer to major labels like Universal, Sony and Warner. They don't (and can't) micromanage all their sub labels and let them do whatever they want. What Hybes give them is the know-how and connections to promote their idols.

What Hybe does however is to cut off investment if your groups fail to produce good results, this create pressure in their sublabels, so this is the downside.

Ideally all kpop should operate under the same system, with Hybe, Kakao and Naver being the major labels. But Kakao is completely irrelevant outside Korea and doesn't seem to care to invest in their subsidiaries, and Naver is simply not interested in media, so whoever joins Hybe will win by default

Quote from Icaro_Ribeiro

Seventeen music didn't change much after Hybe, they just gave them better budget, promotion, distribution and touring outside few markers. Hybe works closer to major labels like Universal, Sony and Warner. They don't (and can't) micromanage all their sub labels and let them do whatever they want. What Hybes give them is the know-how and connections to promote their idols.

What Hybe does however is to cut off investment if your groups fail to produce good results, this create pressure in their sublabels, so this is the downside.

Ideally all kpop should operate under the same system, with Hybe, Kakao and Naver being the major labels. But Kakao is completely irrelevant outside Korea and doesn't seem to care to invest in their subsidiaries, and Naver is simply not interested in media, so whoever joins Hybe will win by default

Tbh I never found seventeen’s music good so I can’t comment on the before and after.

But I’m always against monopolies and firmly feel it will lead to deteriorated results in the long run.

I like what JYP is doing. They aren’t consistent but they are distinct from HYBE and have their identity and that’s good for kpop.

It is pretty damning how badly SM is doing internationally given their status. Is their market research team that bad?

Quote from sonemariam

While other labels want both, SM puts fandoms first and leaves GP support up to luck.

And it's working so well, they have the craziest fans out there, not every company would put on hiatus their new idol because he has a life.

Or literally let the fans decide who can be in a group or not (ex: suju).

Quote from poteto

And it's working so well, they have the craziest fans out there, not every company would put on hiatus their new idol because he has a life.

Or literally let the fans decide who can be in a group or not (ex: suju).

Quote from lialve

Nct promoted in USA despite their results back then being mid. It’s every group after red velvet. I suspect they’ll promote riize in USA soon. They already had an English version and promoted in Thailand and indonesia

Nct went to the US years after their debut. It wasn't immediate. NCT dream only went 7 years after their debut. The US push paid off because NCT got good tour numbers that side. SM got what they wanted.

Only Aespa went there early.

Quote from sonemariam

Nct went to the US years after their debut. It wasn't immediate. NCT dream only went 7 years after their debut. The US push paid off because NCT got good tour numbers that side. SM got what they wanted.

Only Aespa went there early.

actually they went right after bts set the stage for kpop acts in the US in 2017-2018ish. i don't think they could've gone there at the time of their debut. so considering all, they siezed the opportunity as fast as they could

imo sm started caring about western validation too late (2019) when they should have started in 2018 with red velvet (bad boy) and exo (love shot). those two songs are still among the most viewed/streamed songs by sm in all music platforms.

Quote from butterbutterfly

imo sm started caring about western validation too late (2019) when they should have started in 2018 with red velvet (bad boy) and exo (love shot). those two songs are still among the most viewed/streamed songs by sm in all music platforms.

I mean I get why SM didn’t bother pushing their groups around 2017/2018 when SM stans were being loud about “western validation” and “paper award”. It was not a move they wanted to risk when their consumers were very against it.

Still they were too late to capitalize on Psycho to follow on that momentum. I feel like SM is always pushing the wrong group, pushing the wrong song and targeting the wrong audience

Quote from mygsbeat

actually they went right after bts set the stage for kpop acts in the US in 2017-2018ish. i don't think they could've gone there at the time of their debut. so considering all, they siezed the opportunity as fast as they could

I didn't notice that because it didn't feel that way to me seeing how Nct worked their butts off in the US to get known and get fans to support them.

Right from the time he promoted rookie BoA in Japan decades ago, LSM always talked of doing Kpop based on Culture Technology and making it a global thing and the successful SM Town Tours over the years proved that their US push was always a plan since before their debut.

Quote from Afriyieau1

I mean I get why SM didn’t bother pushing their groups around 2017/2018 when SM stans were being loud about “western validation” and “paper award”. It was not a move they wanted to risk when their consumers were very against it.

Still they were too late to capitalize on Psycho to follow on that momentum. I feel like SM is always pushing the wrong group, pushing the wrong song and targeting the wrong audience

Psycho wasn't promote at all even in Korea because of Wendy's accident.

Quote from lialve

For how nct did, 2018 was early and a lot imo. Going earlier than that wouldn’t have made sense. Some companies wait till they have at least some achievement in the USA. Compare it to bts and exo and you’ll know what I mean. I feel like nowadays sm is trying

Idk if the timing was too early or not because no matter when the US push was going to be done, Nct was always going to work hard to succeed. All the talk shows, festival performances, etc had to be done for them to get enough recognition to make some money.

For SM, it's a business regardless of what we think.

Quote from sonemariam

Psycho wasn't promote at all even in Korea because of Wendy's accident.

Damn

Quote from butterbutterfly

imo sm started caring about western validation too late (2019) when they should have started in 2018 with red velvet (bad boy) and exo (love shot). those two songs are still among the most viewed/streamed songs by sm in all music platforms.

I'd say SM has always cared. It's just that their earlier attempts (BoA's english album or Girls' Generation releasing an english version of The Boys and promoting on american TV etc) didn't succeed as much as they expected, so It became an "asleep wish" while they kept focusing on asian markets where the return in insterest was coming from.

The thing is, when they decided to try again (probably after seeing what BTS was achieving), It was too late for EXO, 2018 was their last year active as a full group and they had a newer boygroup they could invest. I believe they understimated Red Velvet, cause the girls has always struggled to cative a big and dedicate fanbase the way SM wanted on West, so It was an easier route for them to push a boygroup who, historically, always have been more successful in cater this specific demography, that's why they focused on NCT 127.

In 2018, they were already following BTS' steps to get US distribution (to a lesser extent than when they finally signed NCT to a US label in 2019, but still were available in stores such as Amazon and B&N), promoted on US, went to Award Show's Red Carpet, released an english version of Regular etc to 127 (I remember It even made their korean fanbase super mad).

That being said, "Western Validation" is not even bad the way people want it to be. If I was a singer I'd want validation for whatever part of the world and would love to see people from any country and race to enjoy my input.