I dont think its fair to make a ranking since each of these groups were massive in their peak era and made a lasting impact in kpop's legacy
Heh.
You could say the same thing about the greatest athletes, as they were the greatest of their respective eras, but that doesn't stop us from making all-time rankings every other week it feels.
Are you talking globally?
Cumulatively! Taking all factors into consideration! If you weight global popularity more heavily than Korean popularity, then maybe that changes you list from someone who values Korean popularity more.
Oh bold 
I saw a whole ass war happen on reddit over someone flipping these rankings.
Wait, does this mean you don't have BTS in your top 5? 
Crayon Pop was a money laundering scheme not a real group
And Orange Caramel was a front for a conveyer belt sushi black market scam
Who's winning now?
Heh.
You could say the same thing about the greatest athletes, as they were the greatest of their respective eras, but that doesn't stop us from making all-time rankings every other week it feels.
Cumulatively! Taking all factors into consideration! If you weight global popularity more heavily than Korean popularity, then maybe that changes you list from someone who values Korean popularity more.
In kpop in specific I think it's more complicated because we have to think about the time, the impact, the changes in the scenario each of these kpop groups made are not comparable since the circunstances made the pros and cons about them pretty unique. Of course BTS is the biggest, but it's hard to say TVXQ is lesser when during their peak era kpop wasn't nearly as global as it is now and they were major contributors to the hallyu. And Blackpink and SNSD might not be as big as their male counterparts but they made massive and significant changes in the kpop industry because of their impact. This is why the way I see it they're the biggest and there's no need for rankings but well that's my pov.
In kpop in specific I think it's more complicated because we have to think about the time, the impact, the changes in the scenario each of these kpop groups made are not comparable since the circunstances made the pros and cons about them pretty unique. Of course BTS is the biggest, but it's hard to say TVXQ is lesser when during their peak era kpop wasn't nearly as global as it is now and they were major contributors to the hallyu. And Blackpink and SNSD might not be as big as their male counterparts but they made massive and significant changes in the kpop industry because of their impact. This is why the way I see it they're the biggest and there's no need for rankings but well that's my pov.
LOL I promise I'm not trying to be difficult, but it's the same with sports. I'll use basketball since that's my favorite. The greatest superstars of the early NBA played in a completely different league than the ones today--there were only 8 teams, no 3-point line, segregation in a country that was still openly racist towards black people, and the list goes on. Buuuuuuut, we still love to make all-time rankings while trying to take all the differences in era into account!
Not because there is a truly correct forever answer, but because it's just a fun thought exercise. But your perspective on it is valid too 
That is a common reason for why some people hate ranking players.
I have never heard of the nugu boy group 'BTS'.
I wish you didn't list BP and Twice, or else I could've made a joke about you being stuck in the year 2012 
I mean NCT is literally a pyramid scheme
If NCT is a pyramid scheme, then what is Kwangya? 
2) Twice
3) Girls Generation
Things here start to get complicated because we starting mixing things like
a) legacy - subjective, based on perception
b) absolute success - objective, although not an exact science
c) success relative to period - objective but with a high degree of subjectivity
d) long-term lasting appeal - surprisingly objective, but with a somewhat unfair comparison rules as some groups just disbanded and you can't measure exactly what is their current appeal based on catalog alone
Criteria a) and d) rules out all 4th gen GGs because they neither have legacy, nor have long term appeal. Except MAYBE iZone which we can assert to have a great legacy
We can make a case for NJ for criteria c) as they are consistently bigger than all other GGs, and even outselling big 4th BGs
I honestly believe the only 2nd gen GG besides SNSD to have some long term appeal are 2NE1 and to some extent Wonder Girls. The others are pretry forgotten. For Legacy we have some of them have like Kara who helped opening JP market.
For 3rd gen I believe the ones with bigger legacy are already on my list. RV is showing very long longevity and lasting appeal, they can compete with 4th gen girlies in many metrics. Their success relative to the others in their generation is quite big so I will put them on 4th in my list
1) BP
2) Twice
3) Girls Generation
4) Red Velvet*
5) 2NE1 or SES*
I believe both RV and 2NE1/SES will be soon replaced by some 4th girlies. I actually don't even see any of them saved (nor even BP) as NJ is juggernaut who will only grown with time. This generation we have several girlgroups showing promise stats who will shown longenvity like Les Serafim, Aespa and G Idle. I can see them climbing my ranking
lOL I just now read the thread and it's talking about groups in general regardless of gender
It's me. I'm the bad guy.
This is the one topic where I finally don't limit the discussion to girl groups 
I find it kind of wild SNSD would potentially not make your top 5 though 
It feels weird to even type that out.
Kwangya is when you're tripping on acid and want to save the trees
Lee Sooman supreme kami Oppa got blacklisted for our sins
That's just what LSM wants everyone to think. He got blacklisted so he could run the operations from the shadows. 
I think I'm ready for my list now after reading through everyone's lists and reasoning.
Okay, here goes.
3. NewJeans (with the potential to rise to 1)
please don't take me seriously i have the same groups as Semirhage in my top 5
Display MoreThat's just what LSM wants everyone to think. He got blacklisted so he could run the operations from the shadows.
I think I'm ready for my list now after reading through everyone's lists and reasoning.
Okay, here goes.
3. NewJeans (with the potential to rise to 1)
please don't take me seriously i have the same groups as Semirhage in my top 5
oh yeah!! XG has unlimited potential indeed
( NJS is a given)
Display MoreIt's me. I'm the bad guy.
This is the one topic where I finally don't limit the discussion to girl groups
I find it kind of wild SNSD would potentially not make your top 5 though
It feels weird to even type that out.
It's hard to remove anyone in top 4 as I believe they beat SNSD in every metric EXCEPT success relative to their time where I believe they beat Twice but barely
I believe you are well aware of why SNSD is such a iconic and important group with lasting popularity, recognition, impact and huge legacy so I will focus on Boygroups:
- TVXQ was the main money maker from SM for almost 10 years, trumping everyone with their JP brand and tours. They are the undisputed biggest kpop group in Japan during 2nd gen. They built SM legacy of big BGs and they survived damn long considering 3 of their members left the company when the group was in their prime. I think what plays against them in lasting appeal. They were huge at some point but they their light faded completely. I understand they are an old group but they have like... half of Super Junior listeners. This is not good. They released nothing in the last 5 years, the average 4th stan only knows them from studying kpop history if at all. I think they had potential but all their internal issues prevented them to secure a place in kpop Olympus like Bigbang
- EXO is somewhat the TVXQ of 3rd gen, dominated the market early in the generation by all accounts starting their generation. What TVXQ built in Japan EXO tried to build in China, but Chinese ban played against them. Nevertheless when I joined kpop in 2016 EXO was tied to BTS the only group with relevant international presence, mainly in SEA, China and to some extent Japan but also at least as big in USA as other 2nd gen groups. Their concert attendance way back in 2016 and 2017 rivals top groups from nowadays like SVT and NCT. They are know for the GP and their members have sucessful solo careers. EXO is showing long legs keeping their popularity among 3rd gen fans. They have a lasting legacy in BG market (they sparked the rise in album sales and revived fandom culture that was dying in Korea) and expanded kpop to China and achieved a huge popularity among non fans, rare among BGs. There is nothing much playing against them except... you know contracts terminations lol, I believe they at least need to be mentioned. If in the next 6 years we will see whether they are above TVXQ or not in longenvity, for now let's say it's a tie
- Seventeen I admit is the most controversial. They have outstanding presence during 4th gen and is currently the top Boygroup. They have a huge recognition in Japan and are somewhat popular in Korea. Their album sales are insane, streams and digital performance are decent. Touring is now surpassing EXO. I believe they will have long career so they will only grown and accumulate popularity and hits. I think what plays against them is lack of recognition among non fans and no solo popularity. I also don't see SVT as a group with big legacy in the industry. Can you think of groups influenced by SVT? Or how they somewhat changed the industry? I really fail to see. So MAYBE they should be left out... for now
I think we should limit it to Korea lol. Because I feel like any top group right now is bigger than any top 2nd gen group
Like if you ask me : SKZ or 17 is definitely much more popular than Bigbang will ever be. It’s not based on legacy or anything it’s just a fact that more people are into kpop now than ever before. It’s objectively not possible for 2nd gen groups to compete.
So if you ask me in Korea I think these are the most popular groups :
Bigbang
SNSD
I can’t speak for groups like HOT or seo Taji etc cuz I don’t have context.
Display MoreI think we should limit it to Korea lol. Because I feel like any top group right now is bigger than any top 2nd gen group
Like if you ask me : SKZ or 17 is definitely much more popular than Bigbang will ever be. It’s not based on legacy or anything it’s just a fact that more people are into kpop now than ever before. It’s objectively not possible for 2nd gen groups to compete.
So if you ask me in Korea I think these are the most popular groups :
Bigbang
SNSD
I can’t speak for groups like HOT or seo Taji etc cuz I don’t have context.
Bigbang is incredibly popular outside Korea. Their disband ballad dropped out and reached over 2.1 million streams on 24 hours despite having little to no fanfare. it's more than any SVT song did
They have little western presence but they are several times more popular than SKz and SVT in every country of Asia except Japan.
I believe Bigbang is a case where they have many listeners who are not kpop fans. Just like Blackpink or BTS, people who are outsiders of the industry and listen to their own local music plus some international acts like Blackpink or Bigbang
Display MoreBigbang is incredibly popular outside Korea. Their disband ballad dropped out and reached over 2.1 million streams on 24 hours despite having little to no fanfare. it's more than any SVT song did
They have little western presence but they are several times more popular than SKz and SVT in every country of Asia except Japan.
I believe Bigbang is a case where they have many listeners who are not kpop fans. Just like Blackpink or BTS, people who are outsiders of the industry and listen to their own local music plus some international acts like Blackpink or Bigbang
Imo that was a fluke based on the fact the general kpop crowd actually and not non kpop fans meaning the broader kpop scene right now was interested in this big legacy act whom they’ve heard so much about rivaling their favs but never actually having seen them. If they consistently released music I don’t believe they’d be doing any numbers like SKZ or 17. Even still life was not able to keep up its steady streams and plateaued off.
I believe they would. They always released hits among non kpop crowd. When I was outsider of kpop and kpop was unkown in my country Bigbang was still somewhat well know for international pop fans (Bigbang, 2NE1 and Girls Generation were the only groups with some sort of presence, they played in clubs and even had their MVs of MTV)
But regardless, even if they turned to be full legacy acts the question is they had their old hits to back them up. Their MADE way back in 2016 tour had over 1 million tickets sold, this is more than any SVT or SKz tour can do in Asia (SKz and SVT make things with USA, Europe, LATAM and Oceania, also Middle East, as by Asia I meant almost only east and southeastern Asia)
BB don't have that many fans as SVT or SKz groups but their audience seems to be willing to spend money to attend their concerts. Think like big rock bands, they are all has-been but their cumulative popularity can make them have huge concerts
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