Why Many Girl Groups have been able to find success in the 4th gen

Quote from Hopkinz

H1-Key, CSR, TripleS, and Fifty Fifty have been able to establish themselves in Korea and internationally.

What are you basing this one on?

How well is CSR doing?

I like them but they still feel just a notch above full on nugu

I'd say 3rd generation was the worst for girl groups. Aside from big3 the rest had very short peak and success.

I don't believe 4th gen is any better. Hybe is a big agency now and you can consider their groups under the same umbrella as big3. Their success isn't some anomaly.

IVE is the only exception. While it's nice that fifty fifty and hi-key are rising, I am not sure if it will translate to long term success. I mean brave girl happened.

Any small or mid size agency artists career will suffocate under overwhelming exposure and marketing of big agencies. It's been like that for a while.

Quote from Hopkinz

The lack of success from the established big 3 labels helped HYBE, who was already growing

What ? HYBE is now part of this "BIG3" it's obviously BIG4 now.

Quote from Hopkinz

And even lower tier groups like H1-Key, CSR, TripleS, and Fifty Fifty have been able to establish themselves in Korea and internationally.

These group have been rising on charts when BIG4 group got no comeback. which goes against your whole post and that's not really what I call established groups.

Quote from Hopkinz

Moral of the story is, if you have quality music, you can achieve success.

Don't want to be mean but if i took all the GG songs that reached the top of the charts recently it's not "quality music" but music that appeal the most kids/teenagers taste. It doesn't necessarily mean that the music is good or bad, but generally it's music that is forgotten after a few years, because the target audience grows and their tastes evolve and the new generation that arrives has completely different tastes.

Quote from Hopkinz

Well H1-Key surpassed NewJeans and Stayc's latest comebacks.

StayC Teddy bear got an higher peak if i'm not wrong (maybe i'm wrong i don't follow charts closely)

and surpassed Newjeans what ?

Their comeback was 2 months ago and they got like 3 or 4 songs in the top 10 right now. No one come close to them right now

Quote from Hopkinz

I guess what I'm trying to say is people at least care about the music more in this gen. Previous gen was all about the brand who was releasing what.

I think you're too optimistic cause of recent rising of H1-key recently. For me 4th gen is worst than 3th gen cause now you can add HYBE with BIG3 groups for steal all the attention. 3rd gen got also nugu that rised. The best for nugu for me was 2nd gen, BIG3 was not powerfull as it was in 3rd gen and 4th gen now have to deal with BIG4 and their more aggressive commercial strategy worlwide not only korea like 3rd gen.

Quote from Hopkinz

3rd gen was definitely worst. People literally only cared about brand.

But it's a new Twice song...we have to like it, we must. Yeah this Lovelyz song is better, but this is a Twice song!

Higher tier groups are definitely always going to be at an advantage, but if Stayc and Itzy made a comeback around the same time, Itzy wouldn't be guaranteed to win. Whereas in the 3rd gen, Itzy definitely would have won.

I think music shows are not a good metric

They have become so insignificant that big agency groups don't even target them or bother to attend.

They are all aiming international metrics

I heard from a user here that StayC had a hard time filling 2k venues, don't quote me on this. Meanwhile big agency groups walk into 10k to 15k venues as their first concert like it's the most natural thing in the world.

without "good" music, or music that's to the liking of many people, you won't become a top top group even with all the privilege in the world, but having good music only without other factors is also never a guarantee for success. never.

Quote from Hopkinz

I guess what I'm trying to say is people at least care about the music more in this gen. Previous gen was all about the brand who was releasing what. Before even if the music appealed to the "kids taste" it still wouldn't do well if it was released by a lower or even middle tier group.

Quote from Hopkinz

But there's still a craving for girl groups in Korea. The lack of success from the established big 3 labels helped HYBE, who was already growing, continue to grow in a new market with NewJeans and Le sserafim. With IVE, I keep saying the stars perfectly aligned for their debut to launch them into stardom. Similar thing happened with (G)i-dle who have been able to just grow and grow with each release. Middle tier groups like Stayc and Fromis9 continue to grow as well. And even lower tier groups like H1-Key, CSR, TripleS, and Fifty Fifty have been able to establish themselves in Korea and internationally.

This would also explain why 3rd gen groups like Oh My Girl and Brave Girls were able to find success during the 4th gen.

if you count gidle and fromis 9 as 4th gen, why are you excluding aoa or exid from 3rd gen, or even apink, who aren't big 3 but still found relative success for their time? if you make 2nd gen and 4th gen twice as long as 3rd gen, like you're doing in your op, then of course the head count for groups at any level, nugu or successful, will logically always be lower lol it'd be a miracle otherwise.

people aren't "caring more about the music than the branding" any more than they did previous gens, if anything it's actually getting worse. it's just that the market size is bigger now so there's space for more groups to thrive, which trickles down to the lower levels too, but big 3/big 4 privilege has never been more prevalent than rn lol. even ive had a head start from produce, so there's literally zero gg in the top 5 rn who come from completely nugu background. compare that to the "3rd gen" in your definition which lasted a whopping 4 years, 2 out of the top 5 ggs were completely nugu at debut (mamamoo and gfriend). 4th gen can't relate to that at all lol, there's literally no chance for a nugu group to rise to the top of the top anymore in this climate. maybe there'll be a female version of bts in the future but i'm not holding my breath, and if it happens it'll be a long time coming

Yeah I agree with you with this gen we see some nugu groups get international and local attention which was not the case a generation ago, you got Rolling stone India, The Recording academy, and Paper magazine writing about FIFTY FIFTY as the next rookie to watch, they also caught Youtube attention like the Youtube company they might not have the sales yet but on Spotify, their streams are going very high especially if we compare it to their debut song and they charted on billboard world digital songs.

And for H1 key they are on their way on becoming a mid-tier group, they are going viral in Korea, they also have the charts and sales to back up their success with out forgetting they ranked number 3 on brand value.

CSR and TripleS have their fair share of achievements as well, These groups are literal nugus with zero company connections they are relying purely on their talent and song quality these groups and they were able to get the attention of international and local audiences.

These type of achievements was very hard for the previous generatio to have, if a group isn't from the big3 no one will pay attention to them, especially the international audience.

I said it and I will say it again 4the gen is very comparable to the second gen in terms of success multiple groups from different companies thriving at the same time

Quote from citron-icy

I think you're too optimistic cause of recent rising of H1-key recently. For me 4th gen is worst than 3th gen cause now you can add HYBE with BIG3 groups for steal all the attention. 3rd gen got also nugu that rised. The best for nugu for me was 2nd gen, BIG3 was not powerfull as it was in 3rd gen and 4th gen now have to deal with BIG4 and their more aggressive commercial strategy worlwide not only korea like 3rd gen.

Gotta agree with you. 2nd gen felt like everyone was on the same ground - bg, gg, big3, non big3. Everyone had a chance. Nowadays its a miracle if kpop stans know a group outside of big4, or to see a bg doing well on charts.

Quote from Hopkinz

Dang ya'll, I just wanted to be happy about the current success of women right now.

Brave girls still disbanding after rolling success made me a sinister

Quote from Hopkinz

H1-Key going viral right now

Fifty Fifty have impressive streams

CSR already have a music show win

TripleS have a prevalent fandom across social media, impressive sales, and have been steadily rising on the charts in Korea.

I wouldn't rush to call any of it as finding success yet tbh

I don't think it was ever only big 3 stealing attention when it came to girl groups.

Some of the most successful girl groups from 2nd gen era didn't come from big3.

Tara, Sistar and BEG were top girl groups

Quote from Lulu_Key

Brave girls still disbanding after rolling success made me a sinister

its the queendom curse i fear

Quote from leinadluzd

its the queendom curse i fear

Not really

I think big agencies have gotten alot smarter on how and where to throw their weight around.

Any groups that get glimpse of success on the outside, gets crushed under the overwhelming amount of promos and exposure big4 groups get.

Quote from Dreamer95

What are you basing this one on?

Quote from Hopkinz

The big 3 isn't stealing all the attention like they did during the 2nd and 3rd gen.

SM: Red Velvet, while still extremely successful, are not the current trendy group. Meanwhile Aespa, who is, has not been very active.

YG: Their only group is Blackpink and like Aespa, is very rarely active. Baemon could, and likely will, change this.

JYP: Itzy has been able to keep success, but hasn't had the same massive general public appeal as their predecessors. Meanwhile Nmixx's concept is too bizarre. Things could change, but the weirdness of their songs prevented them from automatically reaching stardom.

But there's still a craving for girl groups in Korea. The lack of success from the established big 3 labels helped HYBE, who was already growing, continue to grow in a new market with NewJeans and Le sserafim. With IVE, I keep saying the stars perfectly aligned for their debut to launch them into stardom. Similar thing happened with (G)i-dle who have been able to just grow and grow with each release. Middle tier groups like Stayc and Fromis9 continue to grow as well. And even lower tier groups like H1-Key, CSR, TripleS, and Fifty Fifty have been able to establish themselves in Korea and internationally.

This would also explain why 3rd gen groups like Oh My Girl and Brave Girls were able to find success during the 4th gen.

Moral of the story is, if you have quality music, you can achieve success. Higher tier, middle tier, lower tier, previous gen, the thing all these girl groups have in common is getting noticed for the high quality of their music. Imo high quality music was not given much attention because people only cared about the top 5 groups in their respective gen (3rd gen fans were especially bad with this). Now more than ever, if you have a song people like, it will help the group achieve success. And that might explain be an explanation for why Kep1er has been underperforming. Even fans have been somewhat disappointed in the quality of their music, so they haven't been dominating as much as people were thinking. But it's not as much about brand anymore and more about quality. Which is a good thing.

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People always forget about StayC

On MelOn StayC is doing better, more music show wins (just tied NewJeans), I like how H1-key is raising, but they are not above SatyC.

Quote from Lulu_Key

I think music shows are not a good metric

They have become so insignificant that big agency groups don't even target them or bother to attend.

They are all aiming international metrics

I heard from a user here that StayC had a hard time filling 2k venues, don't quote me on this. Meanwhile big agency groups walk into 10k to 15k venues as their first concert like it's the most natural thing in the world.

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It depends on the size of the group.

Big 4 groups, sure, international is more important.

But for smaller companies, music shows are still important, specially for nugus.

Once you are established even if midtier, you are right, for example Dreamcatcher, they have no luck in music shows, but they have done well internationally, well enough to have multiple tours outside Korea, KARD is another example.

People seem to forget about groups like 4Minute, Sistar, Apink, EXID, AOA, Mamamoo, GFriend, Oh My Girl.

Those were not big 3 and had success.

The only non big 4 groups in the 4th gen matching the success of the groups above are StayC and IVE.

H1-Key may be pulling an EXID, we will see.

Quote from Dreamer95

I wouldn't rush to call any of it as finding success yet tbh

I think H1-Key and Fifty fifty may be finding success, in terms of getting out of nugudom and perhaps becoming a well know name.

They are not going to be competing with NewJeans or IVE, but if they can keep charting (say top 50) in future comebacks and get sales like WJSN or Dreamcatcher. That can be called success for them.

I mean, I wish that groups like Woo!ah! or Tri.be could do as well as Fifty fifty and H1-key are doing.

CRS, yeah, they still have ways to go.

Quote from BEG4DAWIN

I mean, I wish that groups like Woo!ah

Don't they have one really popular member just like DKZ?

Quote from Dreamer95

Don't they have one really popular member just like DKZ?

Nana is a popular member, but their music is still not popular.

Quote from BEG4DAWIN

Nana is a popular member, but their music is still not popular.

Yeah, I remember her from her interactions with Nayeon

If quality would be important, LIMELIGHT would be top group

Quote from kirishiki

If quality would be important, LIMELIGHT would be top group

Didn't they have huge album sales that almost mateched the one from big companies ?

Girl strength and Girl power. Extreme slayfulness. Magnificent Music. Just amazing.

I don't agree with the premise of this thread in the slightest.

How did Mamamoo become one of the top groups of the 3rd Generation, if people only cared about brand name? They started from the complete bottom, debuted from a small company where the CEO had more initial hype from his work as a music producer, and built their legacy on amazing talent and good music.

And as someone mentioned earlier, GFriend also came from what was a small company at the time and became one of the most popular girl groups of their generation

That's 2 out of the top 5 groups becoming huge without any Big 3 privilege.

The quality of the music has always mattered to some degree.

People come up with some strange narratives about the 3rd generation.

Quote from BEG4DAWIN

The only non big 4 groups in the 4th gen matching the success of the groups above are StayC and IVE.

Don't forget (G)I-DLE