i think i know what korean gp actually want from a girl group [debut edition]

Since when IVE isn’t bigger than NJ. They have a mega hit this year, this is why they smashed because they weren’t doing the typical GC route.

NJ had a great rollout, LSR debut was just controversy and controversy.

Quote from girlgroupstan21

debut edition

nj make more noise than ive, every eyes is on them

eleven is a hit but its due to the longetivity

Eleven was in the top 10 after a week it’s not a sleeper hit ugh?

Like I said NJ was a great rollout, 3MV.

And ofc they made more noise, they’re from HYBE even LSR made more noise than IVE.

but Ive is bigger and something tells they are the one standing after all the trends and "freshness" die down... WY is the only real it girl of 4th gen

so you're only considering a GG debut huh?

the question is - is this just hindsight or something else?

like how do we differ a group's own image and identity, fresh concept, fresh member, something that can make ppl curious.??

don't all GG try to differ themselves from the peers?

Quote from girlgroupstan21

based on their concept. in general (not considering all that kpop term) we only have 4 concept. sexy, cute, girl crush and unique (??) Idk how to describe the last concept but think about it as...

Sexy : Miniskirt AOA, Something Girls Day, Touch My Body SISTAR, Up and Down SISTAR, Fearless LSFRM

Cute: CHEER UP Twice, ME GUSTA TU Gfriend, Sneakers ITZY, Love Dive IVE

Girl Crush: HYLT, D4, KTL, WANNABE, TOMBOY, ICSM, Savage

Unique (??): Attention, Whistle, or View (SHINee ik they are bg but im trying to describe the concept)

Display More

okay okay I get what you're saying...

I haven't been around long enough to know a lot of GG and their concepts at debut but I can certainly understand your perspective

Quote from selfmate

don't all GG try to differ themselves from the peers?

I mean I'd argue IVE pretty much copy pasted the elegant concept from Iz*one.

If it works it works. There was a big gap in the market and they stepped right in.

Quote from Disevidence

I mean I'd argue IVE pretty much copy pasted the elegant concept from Iz*one.

If it works it works. There was a big gap in the market and they stepped right in.

true but I would say that they had no peers per se with the dissolution of izone and thus they were right to fill it

Quote from girlgroupstan21

disclaimer: THIS IS ONLY MY PERSONAL OPINION

in order for you to have a successful, you need to have your own image and identity, fresh concept, fresh member, something that can make ppl curious.

just like how blackpink,itzy and new jeans manage to hit it big on their debut, because their concept are fresh on that time (bp on 2016, itzy on 2019, nj on 2022). same thing can be said on gidle considering theyre coming from CUBE (CUBE is a nugu on 2018).

group live ive and lsfrm, they arent fresh and will forever be on izone's shadow, tho both group are doing better but that izone mark will always be there, thats why they are doing well but arent as big as nj.

and ofcourse another reason is you must come from big company

what do you think?

Display More

I def agree with these. other is matter of opinion imo

Quote from girlgroupstan21

based on their concept. in general (not considering all that kpop term) we only have 4 concept. sexy, cute, girl crush and unique (??) Idk how to describe the last concept but think about it as...

Sexy : Miniskirt AOA, Something Girls Day, Touch My Body SISTAR, Up and Down SISTAR, Fearless LSFRM

Cute: CHEER UP Twice, ME GUSTA TU Gfriend, Sneakers ITZY, Love Dive IVE

Girl Crush: HYLT, D4, KTL, WANNABE, TOMBOY, ICSM, Savage

Unique (??): Attention, Whistle, or View (SHINee ik they are bg but im trying to describe the concept)

Display More

How does rolling Quartz, everglow or Brave Girls fit into the concept box?

Quote from selfmate

true but I would say that they had no peers per se with the dissolution of izone and thus they were right to fill it

I wouldn't say they were the only ones, just the ones that made it stick. Lightsum tried the same concept before IVE's debut (particularly Vivace) but cube wasted the moment on pretty crappy songs.

Quote from neigl

everglow or Brave Girls fit into the concept box?

Brave girls = sexy. Their basically the spiritual successors to Sistar and trying to be summer queens

Everglow is textbook Girl Crush. I mean straight down the line.

Quote from Disevidence

I wouldn't say they were the only ones, just the ones that made it stick. Lightsum tried the same concept before IVE's debut (particularly Vivace) but cube wasted the moment on pretty crappy songs.

Brave girls = sexy. Their basically the spiritual successors to Sistar and trying to be summer queens

Everglow is textbook Girl Crush. I mean straight down the line.

that's right Lightsum did and didn't do a very good job...(still like them though lol)

Quote from girlgroupstan21

group live ive and lsfrm, they arent fresh and will forever be on izone's shadow

Both Eleven and Fearless outcharted every IZ*ONE song except for Fiesta and even that Ive outcharted that with Love Dive. Both groups did better internationally that IZ*ONE ever did. Absolutely delusional from you.

Quote from girlgroupstan21

Lightsum, Rocket Punch and GWSN. They all are heavily relying on aesthetically concept, which fall on cute concept in general

not sure about RP or GWSN my friend did they debut after the dissolution of Izone?

Quote from selfmate

that's right Lightsum did and didn't do a very good job...(still like them though lol)

Yeah I like LS too.

Little annoyed at how many of them and some of the ages, but I'll get over that. What I won't get over is how Cube fumbled their song choice so badly, completely destroying any hope of breaking out whilst they had eyes and attention on them. Vanilla was just... far too safe. Such an unremarkable song for all the wrong reasons.

Quote from Disevidence

Yeah I like LS too.

Little annoyed at how many of them and some of the ages, but I'll get over that. What I won't get over is how Cube fumbled their song choice so badly, completely destroying any hope of breaking out whilst they had eyes and attention on them. Vanilla was just... far too safe. Such an unremarkable song for all the wrong reasons.

are you implying there are filler members? lol

ok maybe there's a couple...

Quote from girlgroupstan21

oh sorry i think i misunderstood your statement but both of them have kinda similar concept with izone

ahhh gotcha....

they seem to be not nugu per se but still low tier??

in your opinion since you seem to know more about them - what makes you think they failed to "breakthrough"

Quote from selfmate

are you implying there are filler members? lol

ok maybe there's a couple...

It's less that, it's more that the 3 sub-vocals all basically hamstring possible concepts due to their age.

A core 5 of Juhyeon, Nayoung, Sangah, Yujeong and Chowon would be an extremely talented vocal and dance 5. Nayoung and Chowon both VERY strong vocalists, Juhyeon and Yujeong no slouches vocally themselves, Sangah for the short raps, and all 5 can dance rings around most active dance lines. Their also all older and thus have more latitude on what concepts they can do.

Hina and Huiyeon are both very popular in the fandom, so it's a tough call tbh, but they (and Jian) had plenty of time on their side being so young. Jian being 15 just makes it difficult for Lightsum to pivot to more traditional heartland Cube concepts.

Quote from Disevidence

It's less that, it's more that the 3 sub-vocals all basically hamstring possible concepts due to their age.

A core 5 of Juhyeon, Nayoung, Sangah, Yujeong and Chowon would be an extremely talented vocal and dance 5. Nayoung and Chowon both VERY strong vocalists, Juhyeon and Yujeong no slouches vocally themselves, Sangah for the short raps, and all 5 can dance rings around most active dance lines. Their also all older and thus have more latitude on what concepts they can do.

Hina and Huiyeon are both very popular in the fandom, so it's a tough call tbh, but they (and Jian) had plenty of time on their side being so young. Jian being 15 just makes it difficult for Lightsum to pivot to more traditional heartland Cube concepts.

interesting although for the most part I would agree lol

Quote from Disevidence

I wouldn't say they were the only ones, just the ones that made it stick. Lightsum tried the same concept before IVE's debut (particularly Vivace) but cube wasted the moment on pretty crappy songs.

Brave girls = sexy. Their basically the spiritual successors to Sistar and trying to be summer queens

Everglow is textbook Girl Crush. I mean straight down the line.

Quote from girlgroupstan21

idk rolling quartz but isnt crystal clear that Everglow is GC and BG is Sexy

anyway this isnt about the group concept its more about the song concept. A group can have variety of concept like snsd and rv.

OK everglow is GC. I thought the also had rock elements Like rolling quartz.🙈

And yes Brave Girls have definetly the sexy summer concept. But i ment their other songs. Like we ride or after we ride. Like if they use retro or rock elements. Falls this under unique? Cause its not sexy concept.

Quote from selfmate

interesting although for the most part I would agree lol

I think Cube got a bit gunshy after losing Illhoon and Soojin and saw a group of only 5 as not having enough spares, to be honest.

Gidle concept wasn't fresh imo and since when cube is from a nugu company? loll they were only behind the big3 at some point.

Quote from Slayurfaves

Gidle concept wasn't fresh imo and since when cube is from a nugu company? loll they were only behind the big3 at some point.

Idle sold 260 albums on the first day. They were absolutely nugu on debut. No-one was checking on Cube's group at the time.

Their contemporaries first week sales on debut -

Loona - 13,555

Fromis_9 - 3,747

Idle - 2,064

Yes, Loona had 6 times Idle's sales at the beginning.

I don't think people realise how far Cube fell from 2016 to 2018, despite BTOB. They went from Starship level to basically final days DSP Media level, on the verge of bankruptcy and multiple management changes in quick succession.