My take on these "SCANDALS"....

    Two things :-



    1. Fans go overboard with defending their idols even after whatever they are accused of is proven true.


    Very noticeable and kinda normalized behavior. Is it wrong or not? I really don't know.



    2. Rest of the non-fans (who are still fans of other KPOP groups) love to act all mighty and blow everything out of proportion (whether the accusations are true or false).... we saw that with JB few months ago, Mingyu, Chanyeol etc


    Is it the dislike towards the group that made you act up or do you geninunely care about the "victims"? I mean, with every single accusations within last 2 years, there have been plenty of jokes being made on every single occasion about the whole situation, if you really cared about the "victims", you won't have made fun of the whole situation.



    With recent Lucas' so called "Scandal", I saw more tweets about "Lucas" by non fans then the "victims".... Who is more important in this scenario? Lucas or "victims"? Whom you should be tweeting about the most, if you genuinely cared about "wrongs" that have been done?





    Also :-


    These girls aren't that much of victims since they deliberately "exposed" him days before he was making comeback with Hendery. Don't even try to say it was a "coincidence".. The world doesn't work that way. They wanted REVENGE, which is understandable and kinda petty at the same time. But also, they lose their moral high ground here, if they did that before it was announced that Hendery and Lucas are coming back....it would have made them look even more "victim-y" than they are at the moment.

    I love Pikachu.

    Always have, Always will.


    "Pika-Pi"

    Edited 4 times, last by daniel-cruz ().

  • daniel-cruz

    Changed the title of the thread from “Overall, My Stance on this "SCANDALS"....” to “My take on this "SCANDALS"....”.
  • AllKill VIP
    Quote from Ves

    I would agree with that after reading the whole thing today. Now Jalapeño is on hold because of something he had no part in. :-(

    I am hoping it's on hold on Lucas request and he discussed it with Hendery. It's embarrassing if an official schedule is canceled by the company because of something like that.

                                                   さぁ賭け狂いましょう


        lt64IYu.gif


    well regardless of a person's motives or otherwise we are free to "cancel" a person or otherwise...

    that's the inherent freedom of being a human no?


    if you dislike someone and get enough people to dislike someone - that's democracy no?

    even if a person has committed a bad deed and you still choose to follow or remain a fan of them that's still you choice correct?

  • AllKill VIP
    Quote from Yumeku

    I am hoping it's on hold on Lucas request and he discussed it with Hendery. It's embarrassing if an official schedule is canceled by the company because of something like that.

    Unfortunately, Korea, like most Asian countries, is very image conscious. Idols have come back though from what amount to "scandals" to Koreans. It got handled pretty quickly, so those tend to die down.

    Quote from selfmate

    well regardless of a person's motives or otherwise we are free to "cancel" a person or otherwise...

    that's the inherent freedom of being a human no?


    if you dislike someone and get enough people to dislike someone - that's democracy no?

    even if a person has committed a bad deed and you still choose to follow or remain a fan of them that's still you choice correct?

    canceling someone is the modern day witch hunt. But depends on their wrong doings

    Quote from sheryllee3

    canceling someone is the modern day witch hunt. But depends on their wrong doings

    true but that's still within each person's realm of things they can choose to do...


    I wouldn't do it but I can only speak for myself...if others want to do that's their right...

    and if multiple people or a lot of people choose to also do it that's within their rights as well no?

    and vice versa each person can also choose to defend such a person as well

    Quote from selfmate

    true but that's still within each person's realm of things they can choose to do...


    I wouldn't do it but I can only speak for myself...if others want to do that's their right...

    and if multiple people or a lot of people choose to also do it that's within their rights as well no?

    and vice versa each person can also choose to defend such a person as well

    That's a very diplomatic view. If going by that logic, Neither side should shame others for having opposing opinions.

    We just have weed out the ones that are deliberately taking this opportunity to hate on Lucas/victims.

    I love Pikachu.

    Always have, Always will.


    "Pika-Pi"

    If you look at it from a certain perspective, that's the basis of "Cancel Culture".


    Opposite fandoms (or people who don't like Lucas or vice versa) will be working overnight to make everyone dislike either parties.

    I love Pikachu.

    Always have, Always will.


    "Pika-Pi"

    I think it's a pretty natural cycle of cause and reaction tbh.


    Fans desperately delude themselves and others around them into thinking scandals are fabricated, that creates pushback from non-fans (even if the scandal isn't super severe) because they can't believe people can be so delusional and don't like to see someone get away with bad behaviour scott free, which in turn makes fans more extreme with their excuses as they see more and more people criticize their fav and fandom, and so on and so on until the scandal suddenly looks bigger than it ever should have been and focus on the victims is lost.


    But at the end of the day everyone has to decide for themselves if they think someone is worth stanning or not. No one can make anyone unstan, but they also can't force you not to view someone critically or unfavourably. So I think the only thing that really matters is that the truth gets out.

    Quote from daniel-cruz

    That's a very diplomatic view. If going by that logic, Neither side should shame others for having opposing opinions.

    It’s the personal attacks for me.


    “I hope you get cheated on because your opinion sucks!”


    can’t blame me for not caring about a messy relationship I have ZERO involvement or personal ties to 🤷‍♀️

    Quote from Mimi_Minion

    I think it's a pretty natural cycle of cause and reaction tbh.


    Fans desperately delude themselves and others around them into thinking scandals are fabricated, that creates pushback from non-fans (even if the scandal isn't super severe) because they can't believe people can be so delusional and don't like to see someone get away with bad behaviour scott free, which in turn makes fans more extreme with their excuses as they see more and more people criticize their fav and fandom, and so on and so on until the scandal suddenly looks bigger than it ever should have been and focus on the victims is lost.


    But at the end of the day everyone has to decide for themselves if they think someone is worth stanning or not. No one can make anyone unstan, but they also can't force you not to view someone critically or unfavourably. So I think the only thing that really matters is that the truth gets out.

    Good reply.


    Yeah this is a type of cycle.



    But what I meant by "blowing out of the proportion"...

    KPOP fans have hive mentality. Most of them aren't capable of forming their own opinions. Let's say an Idol did relatively small wrongdoing, if a non fan who dislikes that group twists that and spread it.... Their followers or friends will automatically believe them without any background check.


    Then it will reach even bigger audience and hence the so called "wrongdoing" becomes a scandal. That's what happens in KPOP. It's just dislike for a group will cloud their moral judgement.

    I love Pikachu.

    Always have, Always will.


    "Pika-Pi"

    Quote from sheryllee3

    It’s the personal attacks for me.


    “I hope you get cheated on because your opinion sucks!”


    can’t blame me for not caring about a messy relationship I have ZERO involvement or personal ties to 🤷‍♀️

    Personal attacks are vile. Honestly, Once given an opportunity, People will take it to attack any individual.

    I love Pikachu.

    Always have, Always will.


    "Pika-Pi"

    Quote from Yumeku

    The only victim in this whole mess is Hendery. Those girls were anything but victims. I am just tired of repeating myself so I won't make a lengthy paragraph explaining whyagain when the girls' posts are available for you to read.

    It's been established just for arguments' sake that girls are victims, that's why I wrote "victims" to emphasize that

    I love Pikachu.

    Always have, Always will.


    "Pika-Pi"

  • daniel-cruz

    Changed the title of the thread from “My take on this "SCANDALS"....” to “My take on these "SCANDALS"....”.
    Quote from daniel-cruz

    That's a very diplomatic view. If going by that logic, Neither side should shame others for having opposing opinions.

    We just have weed out the ones that are deliberately taking this opportunity to hate on Lucas/victims.

    true but never happens both sides have something to gain from the situation and so will obviously antagonize the other side...it's no different than something like politics lol


    even so that's also within their right? it is very rare for someone to admit that their hate was misplaced and also the definition of hate from one side could just as well be defense from another's perspective...

    Quote from daniel-cruz

    If you look at it from a certain perspective, that's the basis of "Cancel Culture".


    Opposite fandoms (or people who don't like Lucas or vice versa) will be working overnight to make everyone dislike either parties.

    exactly and they will do that regardless but the issue is they can do that...and it's perfectly valid form of (I dunno what to call it) internet/fandom strategy???? lol


    smear campaigns have been used irl for ever so such strategies being used online is no different...

    Quote from Mimi_Minion

    I think it's a pretty natural cycle of cause and reaction tbh.


    Fans desperately delude themselves and others around them into thinking scandals are fabricated, that creates pushback from non-fans (even if the scandal isn't super severe) because they can't believe people can be so delusional and don't like to see someone get away with bad behaviour scott free, which in turn makes fans more extreme with their excuses as they see more and more people criticize their fav and fandom, and so on and so on until the scandal suddenly looks bigger than it ever should have been and focus on the victims is lost.


    But at the end of the day everyone has to decide for themselves if they think someone is worth stanning or not. No one can make anyone unstan, but they also can't force you not to view someone critically or unfavourably. So I think the only thing that really matters is that the truth gets out.

    I agree with most of your statement


    the truth really a matter of perspective...what I claim to be the truth you might disagree...and vice versa because we have different opinions on who to believe and what to believe...


    SM/lucas could come with a statement as to the truth and half the people wouldn't believe him/them lol

    the "vcitims" could come with a statement as to the truth and again half the people wouldn't believe them...


    what is the truth - as fans we'll probably never know...hell even the parties themselves are in some shape or form distorting the facts so the "real truth" will probably never be revealed

    Nope. Did you forget "Always believe the victim" mentality?


    80% people will believe them....

    It's just that recent allegations have been proving false so the percentage may have decreased to about 60% but it's still not 50%...

    I love Pikachu.

    Always have, Always will.


    "Pika-Pi"

    Quote from daniel-cruz

    Nope. Did you forget "Always believe the victim" mentality?


    80% people will believe them....

    It's just that recent allegations have been proving false so the percentage may have decreased to about 60% but it's still not 50%...

    well the half wasn't exactly statistically 50% per se my friend lol


    but more to empathize a point that there will always be people who defend not matter what and always people who attack no matter what...


    it's representative of the fact that we are humans have opinions which even if a court (which is suppose to be the ultimate arbiter of the truth) says xyz we might choose to disagree or differ with it's opinion...


    Seungri got 3 years...(I won't use 50% lol) some people found that too low...others found that too much and he should've been held not guilty...so again the question is who is right who is wrong?

    This is only possible in ideal world, my friend. It holds no significance in this wicked world.

    I love Pikachu.

    Always have, Always will.


    "Pika-Pi"

  • AllKill VIP

    I agree the only victim here is Hendery…


    Also I don’t get people who allegedly care so much about the victims and justice, but are so focused on what an Idols fans are doing, defending or not, thats should be the least of your concerns lol.


    People are more harsher in their judgment when it’s an Idol from a Group they don’t like… they will view things more nuanced if it’s an Idol they do like.

    Quote from daniel-cruz

    This is only possible in ideal world, my friend. It holds no significance in this wicked world.

    and thus I'm not an idealist lol

    I'm a realist...and so such things like lucas's situation/seungri's situation/all the idols bullying scandals etc are and will happen...


    regardless of the truth of the matter it really all doesn't matter...what matters is how one deals with the situation should it arise...(ie. the strategies to fight/defend such) are much more interesting to me

  • AllKill VIP
    Quote from selfmate

    so again the question is who is right who is wrong?

    The answer is everyone? Cause everyone has their reason to their opinion and a different perspective on things. As long as it can be rationally explained and isn’t full of delusions.


    But a lot of people have this false consensus bias, they think the majority thinks just like them, so for people to say something different must be crazy so their wrong. They automatically build a cognitive dissonance and block every opinion that differs from theirs.

    Quote from SandyBee3

    The answer is everyone? Cause everyone has their reason to their opinion and a different perspective on things. As long as it can be rationally explained and isn’t full of delusions.


    But a lot of people have this false consensus bias, they think the majority thinks just like them, so for people to say something different must be crazy so their wrong. They automatically build a cognitive dissonance and block every opinion that differs from theirs.

    but even those people that are delusional have opinions that must be taken into account...


    take US politicians...are lot of them are anti-maskers, anti vaccines anti everything and total loonies...but they vote and hold or control the power/narrative...I'm sure it's the same in every country...


    and the same people exist in kpop and every other aspect of life as well...


    your second paragraph isn't wrong either but they still form an opinion and that opinion matters...it may be as mundane as AKP forums lol or as important as a country's election...

  • AllKill VIP

    Well that’s why I said everyone… for me I weigh who’s opinion I can take more serious depending on how rational their arguments are… even if I don’t fully agree with it. While with delusions I don’t even bother discussing.


    But yeah, everyone’s opinion matters. But I also believe that the substance of an opinion holds greater power when it comes from a place of realistic rationality .

    Quote from SandyBee3

    Well that’s why I said everyone… for me I weigh who’s opinion I can take more serious depending on how rational their arguments are… even if I don’t fully agree with it. While with delusions I don’t even bother discussing.


    But yeah, everyone’s opinion matters. But I also believe that the substance of an opinion holds greater power when it comes from a place of realistic rationality .

    true true...but the question for me (and you???) is how to deal with people not of that mindset...


    rationally minded and calm and eloquent people are all nice and good but they aren't a problem...whilst one might disagree with them...they are logical and rational enough to construct an argument, make valid points etc etc - easy to deal with...but what about the less rational/less logical???

  • AllKill VIP
    Quote from selfmate

    true true...but the question for me (and you???) is how to deal with people not of that mindset...


    rationally minded and calm and eloquent people are all nice and good but they aren't a problem...whilst one might disagree with them...they are logical and rational enough to construct an argument, make valid points etc etc - easy to deal with...but what about the less rational/less logical???

    I think the answer is simple… ignoring them. Accept their opinion and move on. It’s not worth challenging them. Something I had to learn the hard way. And since I do believe that most people have somewhat of a rational sense… delusions aren’t supported with a general agreement. The reason extremes aren’t getting their way or less likely.

    Quote from SandyBee3

    I think the answer is simple… ignoring them. Accept their opinion and move on. It’s not worth challenging them. Something I had to learn the hard way. And since I do believe that most people have somewhat of a rational sense… delusions aren’t supported with a general agreement. The reason extremes aren’t getting their way or less likely.

    and that's what one should do most of the time but there are situations where one cannot simply ignore them


    they might be your boss? your teacher? your parents? etc who hold positions of power over you and thus you actively need to interact with them

    1. fans definetly go overboard. seeing soojin case. we still dont know who is guilty and who is lying. but soojin fans bullying the actress makes it worse and doesnt help at all.

    Also fans often dont know what really happend behind the scenes. And than they do stupid things like they did to the most awesome t-ara.

    2. sometimes nonfans make stupid accusions. but if its blown out of proportion, no one really cares and nothing happen. at least thats what i see what happend to my faves.

    maybe sometimes its the fans not the antis who make the problem bigger than it is. for example a person wrote negative comments about a group and i would never have noticed it but than there were 3 theads of fans whining about the bad treatment of their fave.

    On the other side we have to accept that kpop is heavily supported by the korean government. So the artists have to act as idols for the youth. They have to obey to higher standarts in regards of sex, smoking, alcohol, cheating, swearing, violence etc.

    Of course privatly they can do whatever the korean law permitted but if they get caught, they will have to face the judgement of the public.

  • AllKill VIP
    Quote from selfmate

    and that's what one should do most of the time but there are situations where one cannot simply ignore them


    they might be your boss? your teacher? your parents? etc who hold positions of power over you and thus you actively need to interact with them

    Hmm yeah that’s a different situation… I guess either being brave to speak up, or be the better person and just give in if you think the consequences of speaking up would be more negative than positive. Some people are straight up narcissists they won’t take it easy on you if you correct them or prove them wrong.


    It’s complex indeed. :-(

    Quote

    Rest of the non-fans (who are still fans of other KPOP groups) love to act all mighty and blow everything out of proportion

    The lucas thing in a nutshell. Just look at the apology thread, it's very obvious who's doing it as well as their motives. The way they're not even hiding how ecstatic they are is sending.

    not sure if the girls are telling the truth but y'all mistake victims for good people. like obviously they would expose lucas the day before his comeback. if someone has done something to hurt you, you would want to hurt them back, ruin their career even. what better way to hurt lucas than to bring up the allegations before his comeback. Victims are human beings with human emotions which include the desire for retaliation.

  • AllKill VIP
    Quote from pinkareu

    not sure if the girls are telling the truth but y'all mistake victims for good people. like obviously they would expose lucas the day before his comeback. if someone has done something to hurt you, you would want to hurt them back, ruin their career even. what better way to hurt lucas than to bring up the allegations before his comeback. Victims are human beings with human emotions which include the desire for retaliation.

    No I wouldn’t want to hurt someone back because they hurt me, I would be stepping down to their level.


    Also it wasn’t just his comeback. You caused issues that is affected several people just for revenge. That’s not cool.

    tbh it's all so complex. I mean we shouldn't decide without hearing both sides of the story but sometimes I feel bad when I doubt the victim.We should listen them bcz imagine giving proofs to the world that how much shit u went through. :crys: Believing victims not means that u instantly cancel the opposite party.Yes,u should give your final decisions after analyzing both the sides but before that i think victims should be given a little bit of emotional,mental support so that they could stand for themselves.

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