We are currently in the worst generation of girl groups since 1st gen

But you're ignoring Idle and Itzy, and Stayc who have more hits than some of the tier 2 groups you refer to that supposedly had public recognition but didnt sell well.

Ive, NJ, Idle, Aespa, LSRFM, Stayc, and Itzy is a pretty impressive top 7, with NMIXX a step below all of them. I would say the top 6 are among the top 10 biggest acts in Korea right now.

its ok Newjeans and LeSe will carry

Are you actually out of your mind?

Girl groups are dominating like never before.

In the third gen it was just the big three gg’s + a handful of other girlgroups that were dominating.

Now we have Aespa, NewJeans, Lsrf, IVE, IDLE, Itzy, StayC and NMIXX that are dominating in either physicals or digitals or both.

Even more mid tier groups like Everglow, Fromis 9 and Kep1er are doing really well.

In the second gen, most girl groups fell off the face of the earth after they passed a certain age.

It wasn’t a golden age of girl groups when their success was so fickle. It’s the opposite and you are wearing nostalgia goggles.

Situation looks better to me than 3rd gen too

we've got several different 4th gen girl groups at american award shows, spotify global, japanese dome tours, european kpop expos and man wants to balk at "public recognition"

then goes on to complain about population decline

then the economy

have you had your coffee yet?

what about stayc

Quote from hypernova

In the second gen, most girl groups fell off the face of the earth after they passed a certain age.

It wasn’t a golden age of girl groups when their success was so fickle. It’s the opposite and you are wearing nostalgia goggles.

Don't really understand what you mean by this? We have a lot of 2nd generation groups going on for many year. You call groups like Sistar, Girl's Day and Apink "fickle"?

I'm not korean and I have no clue what is popular in SK or not. But if I would guess I think one difference today compared to the early 2nd generation is that the concept of "kpop" and idolgroups was not really as strong as of today. The new groups and songs that came during 2nd gen was more "main stream" among the general public. Now more than a decade later the concept of kpop and idolgroups as a genre is much stronger and a lot of the groups of today is mainly an intrest among the kpop fans.

Quote from patrik-k

Don't really understand what you mean by this? We have a lot of 2nd generation groups going on for many year. You call groups like Sistar, Girl's Day and Apink "fickle"?

I'm not korean and I have no clue what is popular in SK or not. But if I would guess I think one difference today compared to the early 2nd generation is that the concept of "kpop" and idolgroups was not really as strong as of today. The new groups and songs that came during 2nd gen was more "main stream" among the general public. Now more than a decade later the concept of kpop and idolgroups as a genre is much stronger and a lot of the groups of today is mainly an intrest among the kpop fans.

I’m not calling the groups fickle. I’m saying that the amount and duration of fame for many of the 2nd gen girl groups was fickle.

That’s why there used to be a thing called the 7 year curse where after a while, a gg would disband and many of the female idols in those groups would pursue different paths.

A lot of this is down to misogyny and ageism though, but that issue has somewhat because less common since the third gen took off, where it’s becoming common for many girl groups to last a lot longer.

For example: Loona(now Loosemble), Gfriend(now Viviz) etc

Red Velvet and TWICE have also renewed and it looks like Blackpink will too.

Girl groups are overall in a much better position today than they were in the second generation days.

Quote from hypernova

Girl groups are overall in a much better position today than they were in the second generation days.

yes, absolutely. second gen seemed like a rough time in retrospect, especially from an idol health/wellbeing perspective

Quote from KpopJop

yes, absolutely. second gen seemed like a rough time in retrospect, especially from an idol health/wellbeing perspective

It was incredibly rough for a lot of girl groups. Although a lot of people seem to romanticise that time period for some reason.

Quote from hypernova

It was incredibly rough for a lot of girl groups. Although a lot of people seem to romanticise that time period for some reason.

they're romanticising their youth most of the time. happens to everyone i think

Quote from Drew_B

Agree 2nd gen was as close to mainstream as it will ever get in Korea. Today nobody cares about kpop.

translation: "i've lost my passion for kpop and i think everyone is like me"

Quote from Drew_B

Agree 2nd gen was as close to mainstream as it will ever get in Korea. Today nobody cares about kpop.

2nd gen GG stans never fail to deliver stupid takes. It's very entertaining to read

It’s the best

I think you just don’t keep up with the current groups and the girl group you listed proves it

Quote from Drew_B

I'm mostly referring to groups who debuted post 2020. Nmixx, Aespa, IVE, LSF, NewJeans are the only groups who can sell in the millions.

Quote from Drew_B

ow compare this to 2nd gen (aka the Golden Age of Girl Groups) you had groups like Girls Generation, Wonder Girls, Kara, 2NE1, f(x), and APink

with all due respect mate you mentioned 5 4th gen groups compared to 6 2nd gen groups

5 is similar to 6 (I think lol)

Quote from hypernova

I’m not calling the groups fickle. I’m saying that the amount and duration of fame for many of the 2nd gen girl groups was fickle.

That’s why there used to be a thing called the 7 year curse where after a while, a gg would disband and many of the female idols in those groups would pursue different paths.

A lot of this is down to misogyny and ageism though, but that issue has somewhat because less common since the third gen took off, where it’s becoming common for many girl groups to last a lot longer.

For example: Loona(now Loosemble), Gfriend(now Viviz) etc

Red Velvet and TWICE have also renewed and it looks like Blackpink will too.

Girl groups are overall in a much better position today than they were in the second generation days.

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Even if that is some what true, I don't see any huge diffrence in that regard, I mean you still have Girl's Generation, Apink and Davichii still active in someway. The 3rd generation also have a lot more groups, so if you instead of counting the number of groups that survive longer than seven years look at the procentage of the groups it probably are no big diffrence.

Quote from KpopJop

translation: "i've lost my passion for kpop and i think everyone is like me"

Just because my favorites are mainly 2nd generation groups don't mean "I lost my passion for kpop", I would say I probably listen even more to kpop today than during the 2nd generation becaue I got in to kpop in the middle of the 2nd generation around 2010-2011. And the songs I listen to are mainly new songs, but sometimes brings up the older 2nd gen song. For example I have never really liked any songs from groups like G(I)-dle or IVE, sure they had have some okey songs before, but nothing I would put on my play list. But I really liked Allergy and Kitch, I like ITZY's Bet on Me alot too and so on.

So claiming that everyone like me that says they believe the music during the 2nd generation was a bit more intresting and fun "haved lost their passion for kpop" is wrong. But I also understand that everyone is biased, included me, and often get a speciall connection to the groups and songs that you you first came in contact with and liked because everything was new and fresh at the time.

Quote from patrik-k

Just because my favorites are mainly 2nd generation groups don't mean "I lost my passion for kpop", I would say I probably listen even more to kpop today than during the 2nd generation becaue I got in to kpop in the middle of the 2nd generation around 2010-2011. And the songs I listen to are mainly new songs, but sometimes brings up the older 2nd gen song. For example I have never really liked any songs from groups like G(I)-dle or IVE, sure they had have some okey songs before, but nothing I would put on my play list. But I really liked Allergy and Kitch, I like ITZY's Bet on Me alot too and so on.

So claiming that everyone like me that says they believe the music during the 2nd generation was a bit more intresting and fun "haved lost their passion for kpop" is wrong. But I also understand that everyone is biased, included me, and often get a speciall connection to the groups and songs that you you first came in contact with and liked because everything was new and fresh at the time.

their post was in response to drew-b saying that noone cares about k-pop and that gen 2 was the closest it's ever been to mainstream.

This is spite of the fact that if you look at the numbers and sheer prevalence, k-pop has never been as dominant as it is right now in terms of total public consumption.

Like I don't give a shit if you don't like any of the 4th gen groups. But to say people don't care about k-pop in a year where Kpop is looking to for the first time ever being HALF OF THE TOP 100 for year across all major streaming platforms in korea...

That aint just ignorant. You're actively denying reality.

Quote from Water_oWl

Situation looks better to me than 3rd gen too

Nah I feel like 3rd Gen had like more top groups.

Quote from babydoll23

Nope that was 3rd gen. Glad it's over lol

Dont think it was?

My fellow 3rd gen girl groups fans, let's be real.

There were only 5 truly dominant girl groups in the 3rd generation.

Red Velvet, Mamamoo, GFriend, Twice and BlackPink.

No other group really came close to touching the respective peaks of these Big Five or the total breadth of their career accomplishments.

Well during 2nd gen every group, not just girl groups, were pushed to do dramas and variety shows. Idols were heavily pushed into the mainstream media because the Kpop fanbase was smaller so they had to do more to make money. So that’s probably why the general public knew more of them, but didn’t necessarily buy their music….

Now the kpop fanbase is bigger so they can just rely on music to make money.

Quote from patrik-k

Just because my favorites are mainly 2nd generation groups don't mean "I lost my passion for kpop", I would say I probably listen even more to kpop today than during the 2nd generation becaue I got in to kpop in the middle of the 2nd generation around 2010-2011. And the songs I listen to are mainly new songs, but sometimes brings up the older 2nd gen song. For example I have never really liked any songs from groups like G(I)-dle or IVE, sure they had have some okey songs before, but nothing I would put on my play list. But I really liked Allergy and Kitch, I like ITZY's Bet on Me alot too and so on.

So claiming that everyone like me that says they believe the music during the 2nd generation was a bit more intresting and fun "haved lost their passion for kpop" is wrong. But I also understand that everyone is biased, included me, and often get a speciall connection to the groups and songs that you you first came in contact with and liked because everything was new and fresh at the time.

it was a specific response to a specific user

I get what you mean while there are more succesful girl groups now as a result of global expansion I think there aren't many individual popularity or public recognition ( except for Wonyoung and Yujin) like it was in older generations.

Quote from babydoll23

For me, 3rd was the worst. 4th gen, so far, has much better music imo. And I've listened to kpop since 1st/2nd gen.

I think Twice,Mamamoo,RV,BP,Gfriend are are way bigger peak then w/e Gen4 has done so far.

Can also add OMG,IOI,MOMOLAND,Exid,AOA,Crayon Pop to those also.

I feel like Gen4 is being hard carried by NJ so far with Ive doing well also, i also think gen 3 had way better music overall.

Quote from hypernova

Even more mid tier groups like Everglow, Fromis 9 and Kep1er are doing really well.

People acting like Everglow are doing really well is just making shit up. They sell what, 30k in one week?

Kep1er also are at this point about 300k albums down on their predecessor in a time when album sales have tripled from 2 years ago. Of course they probably break even but I think "doing really well" is some major goalpost shifting.

Quote from ForgottenSoul

Can also add OMG,IOI,MOMOLAND,Exid,AOA,Crayon Pop to those also.

Of those, EXID are the only one valid.

Oh My Girl hit their peak in early 4th gen (time wise), they had a late career peak. They certainly weren't fighting the top 5 from 2016-2018.

Momoland had viral hit then were completely bullied by the other fandoms of the major girl groups in a massive way. That proves a point opposite to what you're trying to make.

Of course there is also the failure of MLD who basically released the same song over and over and their management in general, but let's not shy away that they copped a bucketload of shit from fandoms (Blinks, Onces, Reveluvs) afraid the hegemony would be disrupted.

IOI lasted 9 months or something. Let's be real.

AOA peaked early on - 2014, before almost any of big 3rd gen groups debuted. Miniskirt and Like a cat were both 2014.

Crayon Pop - basically one hit wonders, again is actually an example of how there was so little life to be had underneath, proving the opposite of your point. They came and went very similar to Momoland (at least without the bullying this time).

If you're gonna throw Crayon Pop in then 4th gen can throw in Fifty Fifty and Weeekly in their "top groups".

Congrats, you used basically 2 one hit wonders, a group who peaked before Twice debuted, and a group who peaked in 4th gen to prove that 3rd gen had "more groups". Stirling effort. Top flight.

Quote from ForgottenSoul

I think Twice,Mamamoo,RV,BP,Gfriend are are way bigger peak then w/e Gen4 has done so far.

Can also add OMG,IOI,MOMOLAND,Exid,AOA,Crayon Pop to those also.

I feel like Gen4 is being hard carried by NJ so far with Ive doing well also, i also think gen 3 had way better music overall.

AOA, Exid and Crayon pop are 2nd generation groups in my opinion.

Quote from Disevidence

Crayon Pop - basically one hit wonders, again is actually an example of how there was so little life to be had underneath, proving the opposite of your point. They came and went very similar to Momoland (at least without the bullying this time).

I hate when people call Crayon Pop a one hit wonder, they had a lot of songs far better than what many groups active today have, but I understand what you mean. For the general public they was a one hit wonder, but they deserved so much more respect for their songs.

Quote from Drew_B

Not talking about song quality wise or visual wise or anything like that. I'm talking about girl group public recognition.

Yes girl groups are more popular now than ever before but when you look at the big picture it's mostly just a handful of groups who have all the sales, accolades, and recognition. I'm mostly referring to groups who debuted post 2020. Nmixx, Aespa, IVE, LSF, NewJeans are the only groups who can sell in the millions. Everybody else is barely getting by.

Itzy, sells millions

StayC and Gidle can sell over 250K

That is at least 8 GGs that can sell more than most of the second Gen groups you mentioned.

I love Apink, but they never sold more than 100K per Album, that is Dreamcatcher level. (Apink did chart much better).

Now, we can argue that Album sales are much higher today than in the past, since the international market has opened up.

So you would have to show your math and do some type of album sales inflation adjustment correction.

Second Gen most sold Albums (female)

Quote from BEG4DAWIN

Itzy, sells millions

StayC and Gidle can sell over 250K

That is at least 8 GGs that can sell more than most of the second Gen groups you mentioned.

I love Apink, but they never sold more than 100K per Album, that is Dreamcatcher level. (Apink did chart much better).

Now, we can argue that Album sales are much higher today than in the past, since the international market has opened up.

So you would have to show your math and do some type of album sales inflation adjustment correction.

Second Gen most sold Albums (female)

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???

(G)I-dle sold more than a million this year

Quote from Drew_B

StayC and Gidle are nowhere near Kara and f(x) popularity during 2nd gen.

That list you posted is very informative so thanks for linking that. Amazing how the top 20 is all SNSD, 2NE1 and IU. And as expected f(x), Kara, Wonder Girls, T-ara putting up impressive numbers for their era as well.

???

I-dle has two tracks substantially more popular than f(x)'s biggest tracks at the time. And it absolutely can be argued the same for Kara