4th GG digital power is bigger than 3rd Gen...

Well it's really hard to denote the shifts in music listening and purchasing habits.

But from what I've noticed, it does generally seem that 4th gen has the strongest dominance of any of the generations digitally in Korea.

Gen 3 was basically anemic in terms of the amount of girl groups. Like one can't deny the permeation of BP/Twice/RV internationally, but the entire era was basically just centered on them with nobody but Gfriend and Mamamoo ever showing up.

And Gen 2 while being much more spread out in who could manage to hit, never really had the kinda prevailing stretches of time that gen 4 does.

A hot song would be on the charts for maybe 3-4 months in gen 2, and nowadays, they'll be there upwards of a year or potentially more

there are more songs bc song a top of melon last longer there, the chart push them down way slower compared to when the chart was in 2018

I remember a lotta folks claiming Kpop was dead a couple years ago lol.

Kpop will always survive, as long as folks keep having kids (which is actually something that shouldnt be taken for granted, birthrate numbers are kinda terrifying right now ).

The top 3 acts in Korea right now are 4th gen GGs. Ive, NJ and Idle. I have a gut feeling not even IU could unseat them anymore, something just tells me that her mega concert in Seoul was her final last stand in terms of being at the top of the Korean music industry pyramid. There's a certain momentum that you can feel with each artist and i think with the hiatus and the news of her BF, i just feel it in my gut that she has relinquished her crown, just like Bigbang, the only digital act at her level, passed into history last year.

And no one else stands a chance of unseating the top 4th gen GGs these days. Even the musty balladeers and trottists, even the SMTM rappers, all of the hodgepodge that makes up the Melon Chart where every genre gets thrown in, all of the old guard are falling away one by one. This is Father Time at work, and he is inexorable.

And i think you're selling the mid tier in 4th gen a little short. LSRFM/Aespa/Stayc/NMIXX/Itzy have all charted in the top 10 of Melon, two of these at the very top. I wouldnt rule out any of these groups returning to the top 10, top 5 on Melon charts with bonafide hits.

Quote from BlackpinkHouse

I remember a lotta folks claiming Kpop was dead a couple years ago lol.

Kpop will always survive, as long as folks keep having kids (which is actually something that shouldnt be taken for granted, birthrate numbers are kinda terrifying right now ).

The top 3 acts in Korea right now are 4th gen GGs. Ive, NJ and Idle. I have a gut feeling not even IU could unseat them anymore, something just tells me that her mega concert in Seoul was her final last stand in terms of being at the top of the Korean music industry pyramid. There's a certain momentum that you can feel with each artist and i think with the hiatus and the news of her BF, i just feel it in my gut that she has relinquished her crown, just like Bigbang, the only digital act at her level, passed into history last year.

And no one else stands a chance of unseating the top 4th gen GGs these days. Even the musty balladeers and trottists, even the SMTM rappers, all of the hodgepodge that makes up the Melon Chart where every genre gets thrown in, all of the old guard are falling away one by one. This is Father Time at work, and he is inexorable.

And i think you're selling the mid tier in 4th gen a little short. LSRFM/Aespa/Stayc/NMIXX/Itzy have all charted in the top 10 of Melon, two of these at the very top. I wouldnt rule out any of these groups returning to the top 10, top 5 on Melon charts with bonafide hits.

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Calling these the mid tier of Gen 4 is a fucking joke.

They're top tiers.

They are not the equivalents of an After School or a Brown Eyed Girls or a Secret. Be honest now.

- paved the way.

Quote from Icaro_Ribeiro

Then why specifically GGs are pushed?

Why not soloists? They used to have a bigger presence

BGs as well, they plummeted. From 2015 to 2018 they used to have 12 to 14 songs, very close to GGs actually. The number plummeted to 5-6 a year, more than half of that are BTS'

GGs are just more popular. They are eating BGs market share in idol music

OST songs popularity degraded as well, replaced by trot and GGs songs

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nah nah korea never care really for bg beyond 2nd, I feel people overestimate that

when yg was in their good years there was ikon and winner but aside from that other semi-popular bg were never steady top10 hitmakers

exo was really driven by fandom after first days fall off, bts is the exception but the last few releases been...well

ggs always been more popular, for every gen, from 2021 onward those new gg songs could stay way longer int top10 as the charts changed, before the longest song in top10 was some wonder girls song (22 weeks), now 20 weeks seem like just a standard and

Yeah in 3rd gen GP did not care about GG’s overall music at all. Blackpink basically had way too few releases to even qualify but over all literally no one was listening to GG albums. Not even the promoted b sides. Just he TTs used to be hits.

I think 3rd gen GG’s were the weakest GG’s have ever been in Korea which might be way too controversial to say lol.

Quote from Icaro_Ribeiro

Indeed, a good part of the BGs entries even during 3rd Gen were 2nd BGs (Block B, Highlight/Beast, Bigbang) as well as some 3rd Gen (EXO, BTS, Wanna One, ikon, Winner) but still they used to have some presence. Now we have BTS, Seventeen and once in a blue moon NCT and that's it. It's clear GGs now have the piece of the market that, in past, belong to BGs

The rest of your point makes no sense. Soloists and non kpop duos/bands far far outdid girlgroups digitally since 2012. While soloists still releasing hits and have a good share of the yearly hits one just needs to take a look on the mid year chart to see 4th gen girlgroups are absolute beasts, 12 of the 20 biggest songs are GG songs

I been there to see how it was

everything has it phases, and we are in one where ggs are above others, but those existed before (2018,2012-3 etc), there was a time nobody come chart in top ten in nov/dec bc it was all of smtm and that didnt happen this year but novelty run out, people look for other things, its moves and then cmb when new groups debut, its a cycle that I have personally happen 2 see 2 times already

again the question is not who is bigger but rather the criteria and metrics used to determine "biggerness"

1. there are more 4th gen groups promoting this year than 3rd gen (GG that is)

like have even 25 3rd gen GG even cb within 1st half of 2023

2. Op used absolute metrics which there is nothing wrong with that - the question is why?

since there are other criteria one has to consider as well

(I'm not saying any is the right metric but to merely consider them)

for example what of all the 4th GG groups that failed to chart in the top 100

maybe something like of the 3rd gen groups that have cb in 1st half 2023 how many of those charted in top 100 and compare the same for 4th gen groups that have cb in 1st half 2023 and those that charted in 2023

if the question is the top 4th gen GG > the top 3rd gen GG then that's an entirely different question

Quote from Icaro_Ribeiro

I dont believe you understand what's I compared. I'm not saying 4th gen is stronger than 3rd gen right now, I'm saying 4th gen is outcharting 3rd gen on their peak

sorry my bad but my overall point stands

why only use no. of songs charted in top 100 as the metric to determine charting at the peak

why not use gaon or circle points or whatever they were called?

ie. hypothetical - if in 2018 or whatever the 19 3rd gen songs have lets say 1b points but the 24 4th gen songs in 2023 only had say 500m points - one could argue that the 19 3rd gen songs are "bigger"

also the other thing I mentioned was why not use the no. of cb the 3rd gen GG had in 1st half of 2018 vs the no. of cb the 4th gen GG had in 1st half of 2023 then see how many songs charted in the top 100 or whatever

(again I'm not saying the two things I've said about are exhaustive just that they are some examples of differnet methodlody)

I’m not so sure Nowadays songs chart longer. But I can say now they can chart their b-sides. The fact the only hit b-sides from 3rd gen are FY and dolphin

Quote from SooYoung

And like always i predicted

Thread

4th gen will leave a better impact in Korea than 3rd gen

and it's the truth (at least for GG)

4th gen revive the interest of the general public for Kpop Girlgroup when it was dying during 3rd gen
You just have to look at the number of 4th gen doing well and getting a lot of attention from Koreans ( Aespa, Gidle, Ive, Newjeans, Lesserafim, StayC....)

Meanwhile when you look at the 3rd gen the only group able to getting attention from the public were blackpink, red velvet and twice

4th gen overall will leave a bigger impact

SooYoung

Aug 12th 2022

Charting well ≠ impact

Quote from Icaro_Ribeiro

For a couple of reasons

First, the number of points decreased a lot. Koreans shifted to streaming and for some reason Gaon/Circle never updated the methodology of how they count digital points but basically downloads counted more than stream counts nowadays

Second, circle for some reason still not counting YouTube which is currently the biggest streaming service in Korea

so goan/circle changed their methodology from 2018 compared to 2023?

does that mean that it isn't comparable to compare songs in 2018 to songs in 2023?

doesn't that make it more comparable since if they didn't count YT then and they aren't counting it now? or are you implying they should count it now and thus by not counting it it makes it skewed?

Quote from Icaro_Ribeiro

2nd gen of course still bigger, because they have not only top GGs but several mid tier GGs releasing hits occasionally, much more than 4th gen

What do you think?

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How many 2nd gen groups released top 10 songs?

Let me see if I can think of some.

SNSD

Wonder girls

2NE1

KARA

T-ara

Apink

Sistar

Girls Day

F(X)

Miss A

4 Minute

Who am I forgetting?

Quote from Icaro_Ribeiro

For a couple of reasons

First, the number of points decreased a lot. Koreans shifted to streaming and for some reason Gaon/Circle never updated the methodology of how they count digital points but basically downloads counted more than stream counts nowadays

Second, circle for some reason still not counting YouTube which is currently the biggest streaming service in Korea

Downloads make more money for companies/ groups (on a per unit/single stream basis), is a bigger commitment by the fan, I can see why they would count for more.

The question is how much more should they be counted for.

Big companies have released twice more groups in 4th gen and YG have not even debuted their group yet

Quote from Icaro_Ribeiro

BEG

After School

Secret

AOA

Rainbow

Exid

Crayon Pop

Dal Shabet

There was a lot of mid tier groups in second gen

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How could I forget BEG was 2nd Gen, I thought about them but I was thinking they were 1st gen, stupid of me.

I do not think Rainbow or Dal Shabet had a top 10 song (I can't remember) [On Gaon]. All the others sure did.

How could I forget Crayon pop, the momoland of the 2nd Gen.

So for sure 17 2nd Gen Girl groups had at least 1 top 10 song, and possible 19 did (if Rainbow and Dal Shabet did).

I guess one point of contention is when did 2nd Gen start?

I have seen 2012 as the year used, but that may be for Boy groups.

As always Kpop fans have the memories of a goldfish and also a heavy dose of recency bias. Nothing new at all in this thread.

Let me see if I can do 3rd Gen

Twice

Black Pink

Red Velvet

Momoland

Mamamoo

Oh My Girl

I.O.I (do they count?)

Lovelyz?

That is all I can think off. so 7 or 8 total

If we include those that debuted in 2012 it goes up to 10/11

EXID

AOA

Crayon pop

So at most 16 2nd Gen Girl groups vs 11 3rd Gen groups.

if we say 2012 is Gen 2, then 19 vs 8.

Then again, the debate can be if G-IDLE is 3.5 gen or 4th Gen.

Quote from Icaro_Ribeiro

IOI definitely count

Lovelyz don't have a top 10 I'm afraid

wikipedia claims destiny went to #7 on Gaon

Lovelyz discography - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Quote from Icaro_Ribeiro

I believe only Hybe? I mean SM released 1, YG none and while JYP released 2 Nmixx is such a non factor and Itzy is dying...

I guess Produce has a lot do to with it too. iZone and its sisters groups Ive and Les Serafim increases the pool

I think 3rd gen was generally too short to even compare with 4th gen. The First ggs debut in 2014 while the generation end 2017. That mean whole generation only last 4 years for girl groups and 2017 was pretty empty year if we are talking about impact in Korea. If 4th gen start 2018 and continue until now, we have already had almost 6 years and who knows how long it will still last.

Quote from kirishiki

I think 3rd gen was generally too short to even compare with 4th gen. The First ggs debut in 2014 while the generation end 2017. That mean whole generation only last 4 years for girl groups and 2017 was pretty empty year if we are talking about impact in Korea. If 4th gen start 2018 and continue until now, we have already had almost 6 years and who knows how long it will still last.

True.

3rd Gen should be 2012-2017 or 2014-2018

Quote from killingtime1934

nah nah korea never care really for bg beyond 2nd, I feel people overestimate that

when yg was in their good years there was ikon and winner but aside from that other semi-popular bg were never steady top10 hitmakers

exo was really driven by fandom after first days fall off, bts is the exception but the last few releases been...well

ggs always been more popular, for every gen, from 2021 onward those new gg songs could stay way longer int top10 as the charts changed, before the longest song in top10 was some wonder girls song (22 weeks), now 20 weeks seem like just a standard and

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BtoB charted fine starting midway into their career (middle-late 3rd gen), I don't know if they classify as 2nd or 3rd Gen.