Unpopular Opinion about the 4th generation!

it hasn't started yet.

"4th generation" fans are acting like this so called generation exists in a vacum. In my opinion, you can't call groups leaders of their generation when they are still lagging behind the leaders of the previous generation. what are they leading exactly? and you can't say a new era started when the last one hasn't even started slowing down let alone ended.

let's talk about how the 3rd generation started, in 2013 EXO started having huge hits but not only that, they actually outsold the top groups of the previous generation (in physical sales), no one could argue that Big Bang or Super Junior or TVXQ were still the absolute top group. and then the gap between EXO and other contemporary groups was huge. when Twice debuted, the GG scene was relatively bare, there was RV and they were successful but they weren't a dominating force. Twice then started having huge hits and outsold the previous best selling GG aka SNSD. that's how you become the leader of your generation, when you absolutely outdo the previous top groups, it becomes your era.

And then BTS and Blackpink outdid EXO and Twice respectively in pretty much all metrics, but considering that they debuted around the same time as the latter 2, it is still the same generation.

something else that imo marks the start of a new generation is when the top groups of the previous one start vanishing (enlistment, disbaning)

If we look at the start of the 2nd generation, it was quite similar too. maybe they didn't outdo the 1st generation in physical sales but most 1st generation groups either disbanded or stopped being active.

none of the above is true for the current kpop scene, BTS and Blackpink still have a very strong hold of kpop and they are still way ahead of everyone else. Arguing that we are in a new generation means that BTS and Blackpink's era ended but that's ridiculous, they are literally still outdoing themselves and still going strong. so why would anyone think that a generational shift happened?

and it isn't only BTS and Blackpink, newer groups have yet to match let alone outdo other top groups of the 3rd generation like EXO, Twice, RV, Mamamoo, Seventeen, NCT etc.

the only reason there would be a 4th generation is if it existed in a vaccum and we pretended the actual top groups don't exist.

Quote from redcurtain

yeah new generation used to just mean when the old most popular groups are superseded by new ones in terms of popularity, but obviously no one's going to surpass BTS for a looong time if ever. So that kind of made all "generation" designations meaningless, especially with 4th gen. Like what is the cutoff for 4th gen anyways?

it isn't only BTS. most if not all 3rd generation top groups are still outdoing all the so called 4th generation groups in almost all metrics.

NCT Dream, a group that debuted in 2016, has just tripled their sales and become the 3rd double million seller in kpop. Psycho and HYLT, 2 songs by GGs that debuted in 2014 and 2016 respectively are 2 of the biggest GG songs in the past 2 years. Twice still outsells all of the so-called 4th generation GGs, same for EXO and Seventeen with BGs. It's a whole bunch og 3rd generation groups that still havn't even peaked, not only BTS.

Quote from Pikachu-Senpai

Mm I would say we are in the beginnings of 4th generation. Yeah no one is the leader yet but that doesn't mean the 4th generation hasn't started yet.

Generations are more than just sales and numbers. It's also a difference in music sound.

Arguably the music between 2nd gen groups (SNSD, Wonder Girls, T-ara, Big Bang, Infinite, etc) is different than the sound of 3rd gen (Twice, BTS, Oh my Girl, EXO, etc)

And I find the sounds of this new gen (AESPA, ITZY, GIDLE, etc) to be different from 3rd gen peak sound.

Also if we go by your logic, then Twice and EXO and BTS and Blackpink would all be 2nd gen via debut date since in their debut dates, SNSD and Big Bang were still considered the top groups to beat (aka 2nd gen).

Someone can't just jump from one generation to the next based on their success.

That would mean Brave Girls and Oh My Girl are 4th gen groups then since their success only started recently even though they both debuted in the 2.5 gen and 3rd gen era respectively.

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it doesn't matter when they debuted, what matters is they were the top players so their era was a new generation

Quote from Yumeku

I take all my understanding of generations from One Piece.

Did Luffy/Law/Kid surpass Bigmom/Kaido? No.

Did the new generation start? Yes.

this defeated the hell out of me

Quote from monalisalove

While I do understand your point I don't think 4th gen should wait or overcome the previous one. They are new and being new is what make them a new gen. Sure they aren't on pair with the previous ones, but their time will come. I don't see the necessity to remind everyone of who are the real leaders bc kpop stopped being a gen thing and they are just a genre music which BTS leads by a mile and BP comes to expand this mile, but others groups can coexist and just break their own records and be successful without being compared to the "leaders" or whatever people call kkkk.

Kpop was generation when was normal to groups to disband within 7/10 years, but this isn't the case anymore.

that's why we should maybe stop enforcing this generation concept on kpop.

being new doesn't necessarily mean a new generation. for example, EXO debuted in 2012 and NCT in 2016 but they are both considered from the 3rd generation. that's even longer than the time between, let's say NCT and the supposed cutoff of the 4th generation.

Quote from ArmyBlink0

tbh, waiting for a new generation to outdo an older generation is stupid. If take that to heart then we will have to wait for someone to beat the Beatles 20 #1s and no one has done it so it must still be Beatles era.

for the 3rd time, it is not just one group, it is a bunch of 3rd generation groups that haven't peaked yet and are no where near being matched or surpassed by newer groups.

why does there HAVE to be a new generation? aside from giving fans of newer groups an opportunity to assign their faborite groups titles that wouldn't otherwise belong to them, what does it mean exactly?

Quote from selfmate

well what does actual koreans say about this

do they think it's a new generation?

i don't know tbh, i only see i-fans take this too seriously

Quote from Pikachu-Senpai

So then let's say SNSD makes a comeback as OT9 which arguably would BREAK RECORDS in Korea. Would they be considered 4th generation if they beat numbers and records for Blackpink/TWICE?

it is not a matter of 1 or 2 groups, i have already said this several times. if it is one group, it can be called an anomaly. look at how Big Bang still killed it in 2015 but no one called them 3rd generation or doubted that we were still the 2nd generation.

in comparison, most if not all top 3rd generation groups haven't been outdone yet, most of them haven't even peaked yet. Forget about BTS and Blackpink, did any group that debuted in the past 2 or 3 years match the success and numbers of EXO, Twice, RV, Mamamoo, NCT, Seventeen? NCT and Seventeen have yet to peak even. so, it looks to me like the whole landscape of the 3rd generation is still the same. this is like when SHINee, MissA, 2ne1, f(x), Infinite, B2st happened. they were successful but they didn't end the 2nd generation and start a new one, they strengthened the 2nd generation.

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You can't really do it via success. Because then you're saying Oh My Girl who has been in the K-Pop scene since 2015 is 4th generation or that Brave Girls (originally debuted 2011, current team in 2015) is 4th generation since Rollin' has broken an immense amount of records.

So you're saying a 10 year old group is 4th gen?

no, this only further supports my point that we're still in the 3rd generation lol.

Quote from reina-en

how many times does it have to be explained that generations have nothing to do with sales and charts.. It's about music style, concepts, age of members, shift into the groups focusing on international market rather than domestic and etc and etc. That's just like having a generation for people - generation Y, generation Z, generation Alpha.. Following your logic, no new generation of people can exist until all the people from the previous generation died

i don't even see a major shift in music style. many nnewer groups are obviously and heavily influenced by groups like NCT and BlackPink.

i find your comment about idols' age hilarious. everytime someone tries to argue that NCT Dream is 4th generation because the members are around the same age as groups that debuted in 2018 and 2019, everyone says gEnErAtIoNs ArE nOt AbOuT aGe. so i guess this is just a convenient argument that keeps changing according to circumstances.

Quote from atropos

The problem is there is no shift or impact from new groups. Look at USA music scene. Girls like olivia and Billie eilish who r smashing and very popular. They signify a change and their impact can be felt. Most older pop girls r fading.

Last year OMG become more popular than any 4th gen gg.

Selling a few copies of album than some older 3rd gen groups isn't enough. That imapctful group hasn't yet arrived.

exactly!

and it isn't just about impact, some people in this thread are talking about a change in music style and concepts but where is it exactly? i don't feel it. groups as new as 2021 are still debuting with obvious inspirations and influence from popular 3rd generation groups. there is no new group that debuted with a unique and impactful enough sound to influence their peers.

Quote from Tic_tac_toe

Seventeen and nct will be matched or surpassed easily by 4th gen. So I wouldn’t include them here. Because the only thing there is physical album sales. Which is a matter of when and not if. SKZ and TXT are already doing better than nct and 17 in international streaming and this will continue to grow.

The only place where there is a true gap is only in Korean digitals. I know 17 and nct have marginally respectable digitals but I don’t think this is a great barrier and give it a few comebacks eventually 4th gen will get there too.

Bottom line : other than Korean charting and if we consider BTS an out lier all other 3rd gen groups and I’m including exo here will be matched eventually and easily.

Touring will be a great indicator but well we’ll have to wait to see how that goes.

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and i am saying 4th generation will start when that eventually happens. as of right now, the kpop landscape isn't changed enough to speak of a new generation.