What do you think is holding BABYMONSTER back the most from reaching their true potential?

    What do you think is holding BABYMONSTER back the most from reaching their true potential? 35

    1. The Music (21) 60%
    2. The Promotional Tactics (7) 20%
    3. Other (4) 11%
    4. The Concept (3) 9%
    5. The Competition (0) 0%

    Just throwing the question out there. Note that I'm not calling them flops, but the standard for YG girl group success has been set absurdly high first by 2NE1 and then by BLACKPINK.


    What do you think is the largest contributing factor to why BABYMONSTER hasn't managed to even come remotely close to the overall dominance of either of those groups?


    With the indefinite hiatus of the top girl group in the industry, at least in Korea, there is a giant void that is ready to be filled, but for whatever reason they just aren't resonating in Korea at all.


    Their international success aside, domestic dominance has always been a calling card of YG girl groups. 2NE1 was more digitally dominant than SNSD. BLACKPINK debuted with a PAK.


    What will it take for BABYMONSTER to finally, if ever, break through?

    It's simple, and I will say it's their title tracks. Most listeners just listen to the title track and will form their opinion about a group based on the quality of a title track. A group can have amazing vocalist, dancers, and likeable members, but none of that matters if the title track doesn't capture casual listeners.


    The major issue with Babymonster none of their title tracks are catchy and easy to listen to. I feel their title tracks just misses the mark in capturing casual listeners. I think they need a catchy tune and opinions about the group will change.


    Lastly, I think Babymonster is in an interesting position despite not having catchy title tracks, they're performing well. I don't think anybody can take away from them because they're able to go on a world tour, have a dedicated fanbase, and they seem to be improving in most metrics except for domestic charts. As long as a group has a healthy fanbase and able to tour. Then does it fully matter if the group doesn't reach full potential?

    They don’t have a unique wow factor in my opinion.


    When 2NE1 debuted there was basically no-one like them. Afterschool were maybe the closest, but because they were releasing Brave Sound songs (which are very distinctive in style), they were almost a continuation of Son Dambi and early BEG. 2NE1 felt so fresh with fire & lollipop, (and Sandara’s ridiculous hairstyle was instantly memeable).


    Blackpink came out swinging too. Seeing a group with the swag of 2NE1 but the visuals of fink.l was basically unheard of. And they had the powerhouses Jennie and Lisa. Lisa was the first non-East Asian female idol from a big 3 group. She had such a distinctive look and YG styled her so well in those early years she became the hottest idol internationally overnight.


    By the time Baemon come out, it’s all old hat. Japanese members, Thai members, pretty girls with swag, we’ve seen it all before. Even MEOVV who all look like supermodels fail to make the same waves.


    ADP instead brought something totally fresh with the co-ed concept. They are the ones with the wow factor when it comes to the current crop of Teddy groups.

  • AllKill VIP
  • AllKill VIP

    To be fair, Drip and Sheesh rose on the melon charts in Korea (peaking at #11 and #9 respectively on melon daily) so there’s that…


    BUT their 2025 releases (Hot Sauce and now We Go Up) have had lukewarm reception in korea.


    That being said, I think what’s holding them back as of now is the fact that they’re currently missing 1 member, blackpink released a song this year, and the competition in 5th gen is starting to rev up (Hearts2Hearts, KiiiKiii, Meovv, etc). Not to mention there’s 2 Hybe girl groups set to debut next year as well.


    If there’s no more music from Blackpink in 2026 and if Rami comes off hiatus, I could see them bouncing back and dominating. But if the opposite happens, I can see BM staying at a steady level that isn’t getting bigger or smaller while the other groups continue to rise.

  • AllKill VIP

    It's always about music.


    There's no kpop acts since 1st gen considered "reached the potential" without at least some widely recognized tracks.


    We need to bring back chart relevance. These days many kpop fans dismiss the significance of chart, distract it by other metrics. They act like these metrics represent the popularity better.

  • AllKill VIP

    In contrary of many people i don't have much problem with their music


    But the reason why i struggle to get into them is simply because i don't know who's Babymonster and i think YG himself doesn't know who's Babymonster


    One day they are this girl crush teen gg (batter up / drip / hot sauce)

    Another day they are a full girl crush gg ( sheesh /we go up)

    And another one they are a classy elegant gg (forever)


    And i don't have a problem with groups trying different things, considering that i LOVE t-ara, snsd, red velvet, after school etc....


    But i feel that in comparison of Red velvet who even if they tried different things every era all their era had this common thread linking them to each other with their quirky/creepy vibe

    So it was easy to understand who's Red velvet as a group, becoming attach to their image and sound and pushing me to want to know who's the member


    But Babymonster feel like a different group everytime with different aesthetic, different sound and no common thread linking each other

    So i'll be obsess with 1-2 comeback of them (batter up / sheesh) still like their next release but a little bit less ( forever/ drip)

    And then be completely indifferent to their other release (hot sauce / we go up)


    It's hard to want to get to know the members, and want to stan a group and put your money on them

    When you don't even understand who they are as a group


    I think they are still searching for who they are as a group by trying different sound and concept to see what sticks with the public but i don't think it's a great strategy now


    You shouldn't do this you should just present yourselves as the group you want to be and then your public will find you naturally


    That's what happen with 2ne1 and Blackpink and what BM struggle to do


    2NE1 and BLACKPINK debuted with a clear image of the group they wanted to be and be perceive by the public

    They didn't seek the love of the public


    They came into this industry as they are and said " this is who we are, if you like us follow us, and if you don't then move on cuz we'll not change for you"


    And BM came into this industry with the mindset of " this is who we are, if you like us great, if you don't we'll change until you like us"


    It's interesting that these 3 groups come from the same company cuz they seems to have been build with a different philosophy

  • AllKill VIP

    I don't see how they're different from 2NE1 or BLACKPINK in that regard.


    Duality has been a thing in K-pop for the longest time. Almost every group out there has done this.


    It's a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" situation going on here. If they don't diversify their concepts, they'll get slapped with the "YG recycles 2NE1 and BP music" narrative. If they diversity their concepts, people will also hate on them for not having a comprehensive image, calling them inferior to their senior groups.


    I think BAEMON is in a good spot where they get to showcase just how versatile they are. They don't really have much lore going on, but there's no need for that. It's just them and the music. The members' skills speak for themselves.


    I don't think "searching for your identity" really matters all that much in K-pop anyway. Groups are expected to try different concepts all the time, but at the end of the day, their fans love them for the personalities they showcase.


    If we really pinpoint an identity... The members are silly, funny, and casual, but they're going to be "MONSTERS" onstage every time. They don't act like they're exclusive, hard-to-approach idols. That's their whole thing with them. Casual fans might not get it, but Monstiez do.

  • AllKill VIP
    Quote from superyeah

    I don't see how they're different from 2NE1 or BLACKPINK in that regard.

    If you don't see the difference it's clearly that you didn't follow these groups as much as they did

    2NE1 was very distinctive in the way Yg presented them through the message of their song, their visual, their fashion etc...


    And same for Blackpink you can watch all their mv, they all have this BP vibes none of them feel out of place with the others

    Because they had a clear vision with the way BP needed to be presented as a group visually

    And their vision didn't change once in their career


    Quote from superyeah

    Duality has been a thing in K-pop for the longest time. Almost every group out there has done this.


    It's a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" situation going on here. If they don't diversify their concepts, they'll get slapped with the "YG recycles 2NE1 and BP music" narrative. If they diversity their concepts, people will also hate on them for not having a comprehensive image, calling them inferior to their senior groups.

    OMG why all your comment always look like you read half of the comment you responded and then decided to try to give a "lesson"


    At one point did i say duality is a problem in kpop or acted like it's a " damned if you do, damned if you don't"

    I clearly said that i have no problem with duality and a lot of very successfull groups have been able to showcase different side of themselves


    The difference with them and BM is that this group have been able to find the great balance between duality and having a common thread through their entire career


    And i clearly stated that Red velvet was a great example

    Let's just take Psycho who's a dark rnb song

    While russian roulette is a pure kpop song


    Both song are the total opposite from each other but anybody who listen to them or watch them wouldn't feel surprise that it's Red velvet


    Cuz even when they tried different concept they still find a way to incorpore their quirky/mysterious/ twisted brand

    There's some shoot in their MV that are present in most of red velvet MV

    And all of these creates a common thread for a casual listener or a fan to feel like they still have the same group in face of them even if they try to show different side of them


    And there's tons of example like this


    NJ did it with ditto and How sweet, one is more melancholic and the other more hip hop but it still feels like NJ cuz it have this 200's nostalgia vibe in both


    Aespa have been able to showcase a lot of different side of them too but people still find them pretty consistent

    Cuz they have been using the same drum pattern and bass for a lot of songs

    So it makes the listener see a different side but still see aespa through all these changes


    Quote from superyeah

    I think BAEMON is in a good spot where they get to showcase just how versatile they are. They don't really have much lore going on, but there's no need for that. It's just them and the music. The members' skills speak for themselves.

    Who talk about lore ?


    You don't need to have a lore to have an image or branding


    Quote from superyeah

    I don't think "searching for your identity" really matters all that much in K-pop anyway. Groups are expected to try different concepts all the time, but at the end of the day, their fans love them for the personalities they showcase.

    Groups are expected to try different things yes

    But you still need to find a way to balance between trying different things and create an identity for you


    At the end of the day their fans love them for their personalities ?

    YES


    But these fans you're talking about didn't wake up one day and thought " great today i'm gonna stan Babymonster"

    And before loving their personalities like you are saying

    These fans liked their music, and that's what made them want to get into baby monster and get to learn more about the members and their personalities


    Nobody ever said i'm gonna learn about these people personalities before listening to any of their songs


    So music is still the #1 factor before becoming a fan

    And we are back to what i was saying finding balance between diversity and identity


    SO many BM fans disliked hot sauce and lot of them complain about Hot sauce being different from what they like from BM so it's another proof of how branding is important


    A fan can like a group do you really think if this group continue to release 3-4 songs that their fandom consider too different from the sound that made them like this group they'll still stay in the fandom, pay for their album or concert ticket ? NO

    And it's the #1 reason why fans leave a fandom usually, they don't like the song anymore and don't see in the group what they liked at first


    Do you really think that people who decided to stan BM because they liked songs like Sheesh, drip and batter up

    Will still be here stanning BM if tomorrow YG decide that he wants now BM to do music like gee, dreams come true etc...


    NO


    Quote from superyeah

    If we really pinpoint an identity... The members are silly, funny, and casual, but they're going to be "MONSTERS" onstage every time. They don't act like they're exclusive, hard-to-approach idols. That's their whole thing with them. Casual fans might not get it, but Monstiez do.

    Casual fans might not get it but monstiez do ?


    I'm sorry but do you read what you write


    The point of a group and especially a rookie groups is to gain new fans to build a solid fanbase for the future so it go through music before personalities

    Nobody would want to know these girls personalities if they don't like the group or their music first


    And who talk about individual identity of the members , i'm talking about GROUP identity !!!!


    So many people didn't give a f*** abt BM because they dislike batter up

    Then start to like them with sheesh because they were more girl crush and more what they wanted

    And a lot of people lose interest after drip because of how badly Hot sauce was receive


    Which show how identity as a group is important


    You need to be able to show diversity for people to not get bored of your song


    But you also need to have an identity as a group for the people who start to stan you or be interest in your group doesn't give up on you at your next comeback

    Cuz what you did is completely different from the reason they fell in love with you




    I think you have a very naive, childish and blindsided vision of how a fandom works, or how a group gain fans



    If personalities of members was enough to keep people in the fandom, then company wouldn't waste their time to debut new groups cuz it would means that nobody would leave the fandom of the previous groups


    The reason why they still do is because kpop fans expectations evolve

    And a group can't do a 360° shift in their image and brand without losing their current fans to gain new ones, it would be a bet too risky cuz you wouldn't be able to predict if this new image will bring as much fans than the one you had in the past.


    One of the best example is Twice, who had a lot of casual listener supporting them that they could have transform into fans with a bit more cute songs

    But left the ship once they completely shift their brand cuz even if they like the members individually

    The group that twice was becoming wasn't the group they fell in love with


    On the other hand Bp that have been able to maintain an identity

    Have kept a pretty solid fanbase from debut till now, and even solidify through the time cuz casual fans and BLINKS saw through Blackpink, a group in which they could put their money without regretting it after 1-2 comebacks.


    And their fanbase even follow them on their solo work in comparison of Twice members for example

    Cuz even in their solo stuff you can still smell a little bit of Blackpink but they have been able to twisted to fit their individual image and taste



    Kpop market is overwhelmed now

    Kpop fans are too stimulate

    They don't have times and kpop company understood it

    If you do something that makes fans think " oh i don't see what i like about them in the group anymore"

    They'll not stay still and wait there's now hundreds of kpop groups now and another group can offer them what they were looking that they weren't finding anymore in their previous bias and move to another ship


    And will probably be more loyal to this group cuz if this group is able to show different side while maintening their image these fans will never have the impression of having a different group in front of them every comeback and asking themselves " will i like their next cb"


    Identity have become a key now in kpop

    Which wasn't that important in 2nd gen when the market wasn't as oversaturated and fans didn't have much choice of group to stan


    So yeah i stand by my point and i honestly saw no real logical points made in your comment, all i saw was a fan saying " i like their personalities and their personalities is enough " which is very naive and i don't think this type of comment really add to the discussion cuz it doesn't really bring a realistic vision of how kpop or music market works overall

    I think let’s wait a bit to see how this comeback does but in relation to op question imo it’s the music/concept.


    I’m sorry but 2NE1 - BP - BM. People are tired of the same format. You could give al BM songs to BP and it would sound like their songs. YGE are so scared to try different :!: for years they’ve been going on about having a SNSD/TWICE concept for their own only to release a younger BP :!:


    It would help if BP weren’t active but they are! Why would people support BM when BP have been around longer and are more familiar/already great at what they do.


    The members are fine and the talent is there! It’s truly their music and concept. 3rd time is overdone.

  • AllKill VIP

    Since they're a Big 4 group, it must be the music.


    But it doesn't matter if they have Korea as long they can draw from elsewhere and that 200k+ first day sale basically says that they can do that just fine.

    I guess it is about promotional tactics.


    Sheesh rose after their it's live performance

    Drip rose after the Sbs performance.


    Other 5th gen gg's are rising because they are constantly promoting in korea like going to festival performamces. Meanwhile baemon had none. I won't be surprised if meovv burnin up will chart higher than we go up because yg is once again holding back the korean promotions, like they won't appear in the next week's inkigayo.

    I have zero doubts MEOVV will chart higher.


    TBL has had a much stronger year than YG. Arguably, in terms of the success of their music and artists, they've done better than any label in K-Pop this year. Actually, that isn't even arguable.


    All this talk of album sales reads like cope to me. That has never been the calling card nor primary strength of YG girl groups.


    Hell, BP didn't have ANY physical albums you could purchase until 2018, a full two years after their debut

    blackpink???


    I just wanted to throw something out there...


    when BP was around during their heyday - 2ne1 were already on hiatus/disbanded/not in the picture


    when Twice was around during their heyday - miss A were on hiatus/disbanded/not in the picture


    when red velvet was around and during their heyday - both snsd and f(x) were winding down? close to winding down?


    can the same be said of IVE and WSJN? or Gidle and CLC? etc etc


    it would seem if the previous group(s) are/were still very active - it prevents the rise of the following group? maybe????

    Baby monster will grow just fine.

    I am not worried.



    However, as a monstiez:

    I do want them to stick to the dark concept they did for "We Go Up".

    Something like this suits them perfectly.


    A little more stability with their concept would be good.


    I don't wanna see something like "Hot Sauce" ever again.

    That was shockingly awful.

    Yeah, it’s an interesting thing about the gens now.


    When gen 2 came around (my proper introduction to kpop), gen 1 was well and truly over. 2NE1 weren’t going up against S.E.S etc on Inkigayo. It was the same for gen 3 (especially by the time Twice and Blackpink came around). Even if an older group (like Big Bang) had a comeback, it was once in a blue moon and had the feeling of a legendary group returning from retirement.


    Now we have several gen 3 groups riding out the tail end of their prime still, gen 4 groups that only just feel like they’re peaking, and we’re supposedly in gen 5 with all these new groups getting tossed into the moshpit with them.

    YG, obviously. To be fair, their discography is already diverse, but their Title Tracks are not really GP friendly imo. Also, most people only cared about them, because they thought they're gonna be the next Blackpink. It's easy to tell those people already left, because even on Twitter where the idiots are the loudest, Babymon fans are barely doing anything noteworthy in a toxic way.


    Also, I'm sooooo happy they're not overhyped like Blackpink was. That gives them more freedom. Their talent is there, they only need a better company who can hire better producers.


    A slow burn career can only help them in the long-run, but I don't trust in YG at all.

    2NE1 was basically the "female version of Bigbang", and Blackpink was "the pretty version of 2NE1" - YG


    Meanwhile, Babymonster is a diverse group, more diverse than 2NE1 and BP combined. Not only talent but music wise as well. People don't like diverse artists. Especially kids. I've seen so many fools saying: "They don't know what to do, don't have a real concept." etc. Not only about Babymon but other groups as well.


    And funny thing is, the same people saying, their faves are so versatile, real artists etc even tho they keep releasing the same boring music with the same boring lyrics.


    I hate YG, but I like that Babymon was built on their talent first, not the same old boring "SWAG" bullshit. It was lame when Blackpink did it, it was outdated that time already, and it's even worse now. Also, I never felt for one single moment it was authentic for BP at all. It was forced! It wasn't their real persona, and you can tell based on their solo releases.

    Quote from superyeah

    Duality has been a thing in K-pop for the longest time. Almost every group out there has done this.


    It's a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" situation going on here. If they don't diversify their concepts, they'll get slapped with the "YG recycles 2NE1 and BP music" narrative. If they diversity their concepts, people will also hate on them for not having a comprehensive image, calling them inferior to their senior groups.

    Exactly! That's why ITZY lost so many so called "fans" as well. That's why people say, groups like MAMAMOO don't have a concept.


    The funny thing is, YG's new 4 member girl group is probably the "new Blackpink". I already feel bad for them.💀

    Quote from Bottles

    Yeah, it’s an interesting thing about the gens now.


    When gen 2 came around (my proper introduction to kpop), gen 1 was well and truly over. 2NE1 weren’t going up against S.E.S etc on Inkigayo. It was the same for gen 3 (especially by the time Twice and Blackpink came around). Even if an older group (like Big Bang) had a comeback, it was once in a blue moon and had the feeling of a legendary group returning from retirement.


    Now we have several gen 3 groups riding out the tail end of their prime still, gen 4 groups that only just feel like they’re peaking, and we’re supposedly in gen 5 with all these new groups getting tossed into the moshpit with them.


    For 1st gen vs 2nd gen, we have Wonder Girls going up against Jewelry (and lost). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/23rd_Golden_Disc_Awards


    pasted-from-clipboard.png


    3rd gen started in 2012, since then many 2nd gen groups were still competitive.

    Quote from Bottles

    Yeah, it’s an interesting thing about the gens now.


    When gen 2 came around (my proper introduction to kpop), gen 1 was well and truly over. 2NE1 weren’t going up against S.E.S etc on Inkigayo. It was the same for gen 3 (especially by the time Twice and Blackpink came around). Even if an older group (like Big Bang) had a comeback, it was once in a blue moon and had the feeling of a legendary group returning from retirement.


    Now we have several gen 3 groups riding out the tail end of their prime still, gen 4 groups that only just feel like they’re peaking, and we’re supposedly in gen 5 with all these new groups getting tossed into the moshpit with them.

    I think there should be a new thread to see what others think about this idea of the prior group blocking the (I can't say success) but maybe reaching true potential ????

  • AllKill VIP
    Quote from vinslow4

    For 1st gen vs 2nd gen, we have Wonder Girls going up against Jewelry (and lost). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/23rd_Golden_Disc_Awards


    pasted-from-clipboard.png


    3rd gen started in 2012, since then many 2nd gen groups were still competitive.

    Jewelry is a complex situation

    It's a 1st gen group who had multiple change of lineup which blew up only during the 2nd gen of members with seo inyoung etc...

    how?

    BP latest group release was 3 years ago, 2 years before Babymonster debut.

    BP latest solo release under YG was in 2023, 1 year before Babymonster release. They are not release anything in 2024 the year BM debuted.


    BP comeback once every blue moon aka 2-3 years, all of them didnt signed under YG for their solo run. YG didnt even promote JUMP.


    BabyMonster had their first mini album in their debut day. BP had to wait for 2 years for their 1st mini album. BP only had 4 songs in their first year.


    so how?

    well BP is still very much active - I'm not merely talking about releases or frequency of releases

    I'm also not talking about debuts...

    I'm talking I guess more above success...

    and the success of the prior group hinders the following group


    The original argument is what is stopping BM (and I added any GG???) from reaching their true potential

    what is that "still very much active" that you mean?


    I get it if BP comeback every 6 months, so they need every staff in YGE to work for them so they exhaust every resources that BM needed. They don't even have the same main producer.


    So i just wondering, how?

    Quote from trippin

    what is that "still very much active" that you mean?


    I get it if BP comeback every 6 months, so they need every staff in YGE to work for them so they exhaust every resources that BM needed. They don't even have the same main producer.


    So i just wondering, how?

    that they exist, they are touring, they released a single which is pretty successful by most measures


    again I'm not talking about the resources they consume to "deprive" BM of their share so to speak...

    I'm not saying because BP is around BM isn't getting adequate resources for their promotions etc etc


    I'm saying the mere existence and continued existence of an "active" BP and BP's success mean that fans will not (maybe will not is a too harsh word???) fully gravitate towards BM - does that make sense?


    again this is just a thought I had and not limited to BP/BM

    I'm also including other groups such as IVE and KiiiKiii, Gidle and Lightsum, Aespa and h2h, twice and itzy/nmixx??? (maybe to a lesser extent???)

    those other groups that you mention like ive gidle aespa etc, at least have 1 comeback a year or maybe 2 a year when their junior debuted. not a single in 3 years.... so it's not even an apple to apple comparison.


    so the reason is just because Blackpink is still breathing?

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