I dont understand how ppl say Ive is weak internationally

  • Wonyoung is without a doubt the most popular 4th gen gg member overseas and After Like debuted straight to #23 on spotify global chart when released without any big playlisting.

    This cb did worse than AL in comparison but I AM still is on spotify global chart after a month and 2 weeks


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    Are they really weaker than other ggs internationally or that's a lie spread by company stans that they hope to repeat until it becomes true?

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  • They are popular but their fandom is really weak, they rely almost completely on casuals.


    The day they release a song iFans do not like they will tank hard, Kistch has only 50 million streams, this is a huge downgrade from After Like


    People here say (desonestly and unfailry) Aespa streams sucks, but every track in My World EP (average of over 150k streams a day) will soon outstream every track in I Am (average 30k streams a day). That's because Aespa has a true core audience to stream them

  • honestly idkk, personally it think it might have to do with the fandom size or just that they don't do as well as other ggs comparatively but still do REALLY WELL. i would def not say ive is weak internationally tho

    Its not fandom that makes the difference, but company stans that hype groups based on the companies they come from rather than their actual content

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  • fact is that if this would be eng single

    whole US will be vibin to it

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  • because multiple group doing well or decently well on international chart is a really hard concept to understand for kpop fans


    ifans are so obsess with always wanting 1, and only 1 group to do well internationally

    that the moment group 2 start to do better better than Group 1 internationally (even if group 1 is doing well)

    it can only means that now Group 2 is doing well, and if one group do well the other group can only flop

    ✩We Born with the X-Gene✩

    #aespa from GOMAWO TAEYEON #aespa from GOMAWO TAEYEON #aespa from GOMAWO TAEYEON

  • majority of loud ifans are company stans and that what IVE is lacking


    Starship is trying some family concerts and stuff, maybe they can foster their own brand of company stans?


    Another smart idea would have been to stick them with SM groups and do some joint promos since they are under Kakao umbrella.

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  • You should go into the other threads and read line by line what has been posted.


    It is mainly their growth has slowed down a lot in comparison with other groups which are still growing at the very quick rate. All groups have already peaked or almost peaked in Korea, so it means that they are not growing as fast for whatever reason(s) globally as the other groups. Who really knows what the exact reasons are, and its most probably multiple reasons.


    Also 1 great stan attractor is good, but 4+ good stans attractors is better. BP is all elite. Twice is all elite. You can say that about the other groups too.

  • Based on my observation of music show votings the core fandom has grown massively. Love Dive was the turning point and now most recently in I AM era the voting has been on a new level. IVE would get utterly destroyed last year in votings that didn't heavily bias Korean votes (eg. MCountdown) but this time around it was quite different.


    The votes that are completely online and not restricted to Koreans depend heavily in international core fandom size. While Spotify charting also depends on that there are quite a lot of other factors. For example, what core fandom did Fifty Fifty have? Same can be said for Love Dive last year, there was no core fandom worth mentioning at the time and it did super well long term on Spotify.


    Full album streaming is a valid point I guess since that would mostly be streamed by core fans. I have a ton of streams for Aespas album though because I always listen to the full album as it's only 5 songs. For IVE I'm rarely listening to all 11 songs in one go :pepe-shrug:


    There's also the whole playlisting and pay-for-autoplay that we simply don't know the real impact of but it's undeniable at this point that companies are resorting to both - which I can't fault them for, it's effective marketing.

  • To be honest I think they should focus on promotion in Asia for now and let things run their course. They could increase fandom size and sales in SEA/China in my opinion and I guess that's why they are doing a SEA tour next. I'm usually not a fan of these 'forced' US promotions, it makes sense once the demand is already there, eg. NewJeans.

  • give it a time, ive is doing good, ppl say they need to promote more in int, but is it really easy to do that? starship is almost have zero presence in int(public int) , except prob monsta x(even this i'm not sure), like it or not the diff betwen big 4 and other is the foundation they build, nowdays everything need connection, even to be in good playlist you need connection, the only exemption prob if you have viral song like fifty fifty

  • They are popular but their fandom is really weak, they rely almost completely on casuals.


    The day they release a song iFans do not like they will tank hard, Kistch has only 50 million streams, this is a huge downgrade from After Like


    People here say (desonestly and unfailry) Aespa streams sucks, but every track in My World EP (average of over 150k streams a day) will soon outstream every track in I Am (average 30k streams a day). That's because Aespa has a true core audience to stream them

    I think aespa is bad comparison, because aespa released some kind of music video by every track they have on the album. IVE did not promote that much their b sides.

  • Aespa streams do suck for their title tracks, they’ve got a fanbase but their title tracks are nugu level. They peaked with savage and declined since I fear


    Having just casuals isn’t even a drag tbh when at this pace it’s only a matter of time that ive grows a bigger fandom then aespa anyways. :iconpepe:

    In my opinion having a big fandom is much more important than having casuals. Aespa streams don't suck, their streams are good actually and better than Ive's, title track is not the only bing that matters


    I'm not sure about Ive growing bigger fandom than Aespa, Aespa last album sold more and also grewn more too. Aespa charted more song on Melon and got better streams for their b-sides. They have a big and healthy fandom, and mind you Aespa came from a bunch of flop title tracks, Ive came from a smash hit

  • They are popular but their fandom is really weak, they rely almost completely on casuals.


    The day they release a song iFans do not like they will tank hard, Kistch has only 50 million streams, this is a huge downgrade from After Like


    People here say (desonestly and unfailry) Aespa streams sucks, but every track in My World EP (average of over 150k streams a day) will soon outstream every track in I Am (average 30k streams a day). That's because Aespa has a true core audience to stream them

    So 1.5m casuals bought their full album? :/

    Interesting. All of these ggs sell around the same number and Ive is the only one with weak fandom?

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  • So 1.5m casuals bought their full album? :/

    Interesting. All of these ggs sell around the same number and Ive is the only one with weak fandom?

    Streams on Spotify come mostly from western fans and SEA fans, generally speaking when people say internationally I'm inclined to understand "western" if you're including China, Japan and SEA on internationally then I agree the claims about Ive been weak are unfounded, they are strong internationally

  • Savage EP have great streams and the songs have no MV. Aespa b-sides get MVs because the company see value in them, not the other way around

    aespa barely got any music during savage episode so a lot of casuals listen to their music during that era. If you look at Girls episode, only songs that got music video or got some kind of special promotion reach over 10m streams.

  • Streams on Spotify come mostly from western fans and SEA fans, generally speaking when people say internationally I'm inclined to understand "western" if you're including China, Japan and SEA on internationally then I agree the claims about Ive been weak are unfounded, they are strong internationally

    IVE was the first 4th gen gg to chart in US.

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  • aespa barely got any music during savage episode so a lot of casuals listen to their music during that era. If you look at Girls episode, only songs that got music video or got some kind of special promotion reach over 10m streams.

    True. Still Aespa last album has more streams on Spotify than YT, I'm sure most of people who listened to their last album didn't even watched the MVs (I personally didn't). The fact they can keep a stable influx on streams for their b-sides implies they have a stable and big fandom

  • IVE was the first 4th gen gg to chart in US.

    With what song? Curious because I genuinely had no idea


    Their last album only reached 57 in top album sales chart. Sure they lack US distribution, but still pretty weak


    I think they have many casual listeners in Japan and west, but not a big fandom. They have a very big fandom in Korea and China. They might have a big fandom in SEA, I don't follow their stats there

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    AL had way more hype so it did better initially but I AM is showing good longevity so far. Aside from NJ, no 4th gen group really does well internationally.

  • With what song? Curious because I genuinely had no idea


    Their last album only reached 57 in top album sales chart. Sure they lack US distribution, but still pretty weak


    I think they have many casual listeners in Japan and west, but not a big fandom. They have a very big fandom in Korea and China. They might have a big fandom in SEA, I don't follow their stats there

    I dont remember, but I do remember a thread on akp about it. As you can see in these stats, they have strong interest in the west and these are just examples.


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    I mean no offense, but the problem is people like you that don't even bother searching and verifying the truth before spreading misinformation based on "me thinks".

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    AL had way more hype so it did better initially but I AM is showing good longevity so far. Aside from NJ, no 4th gen group really does well internationally.

    That's wrong though lesserafim antifragile really do great on Spotify the song charted more than 100 days on global Spotify that makes them the fifth group done this feat and unforgiven still charting on Spotify too.

  • because multiple group doing well or decently well on international chart is a really hard concept to understand for kpop fans


    ifans are so obsess with always wanting 1, and only 1 group to do well internationally

    that the moment group 2 start to do better better than Group 1 internationally (even if group 1 is doing well)

    it can only means that now Group 2 is doing well, and if one group do well the other group can only flop

    And even the reasons they are doing well can be questioned. Tokkis can say all they want, but Attention going straight to TTH when it was just released when BP, BTS and even Cupid took much longer is extremely questionable no matter how I may sound saying this. It's the truth.


    Before people twist what I say I dont mean that NJ doesnt deserve credit, I just think they had an incredibly strong push compared to other groups.

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    Edited once, last by catzi ().

  • Stop mentioning Asia, everyone knows that internationally means US only because I dunno white people or something maybe something along that line US superior Asia BOOOOOOOOO NUGUUU


    ;judgingpepe:

    US is the biggest music market and kpop groups usually chart better if you exclude them from the competition but it's an interesting debate as country artists are huge there and nugu everywhere else

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  • US is the biggest music market and kpop groups usually chart better if you exclude them from the competition but it's an interesting debate as country artists are huge there and nugu everywhere else

    Country artists all sound the same to me I said what I said


    ;judgingpepe:


    Like you could put 5 white guys wearing some straw hat in some checkered shirt ask them to sing to me 5 different songs and I wouldn't for the life of me differentiate them

  • That's wrong though lesserafim antifragile really do great on Spotify the song charted more than 100 days on global Spotify that makes them the fifth group done this feat and unforgiven still charting on Spotify too.

    Antifragile did really well, yeah but Unforgiven isn't. I AM is doing better than it on Spotify. Here are their streams 3 weeks after release.


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    Even if you compare I AM current numbers(1.2M), Unforgiven is only ahead by 100k streams which isn't that big of a difference considering I AM was released weeks before it.

  • All those stats are about singles and title tracks. I still see no evidence they have big fandom outside Korea and China.


    Take Les Serafim, they have nothing bigger than Love Dive or After Like, but Unforgiven album debuted with streams 57% higher than Ive full album. That's because LSRF has a very strong fandom too, just like Aespa

  • Unforgiven was badly received. Just that. LSRF have a big fandom, look at Antifragile and Fearless b-sides, they are really strong. Of course nothing on NJ level, but they are showijg very promising signs nonetheless

  • All those stats are about singles and title tracks. I still see no evidence they have big fandom outside Korea and China.


    Take Les Serafim, they have nothing bigger than Love Dive or After Like, but Unforgiven album debuted with streams 57% higher than Ive full album. That's because LSRF has a very strong fandom too, just like Aespa

    no, lesserafim's streams mostly come from hybe stans, just like nj's streams. those groups don't have strong fandoms of their own, only company stans, bc they come from hybe, duh :flirt-pepe:

  • no, lesserafim's streams mostly come from hybe stans, just like nj's streams. those groups don't have strong fandoms of their own, only company stans, bc they come from hybe, duh :flirt-pepe:

    Seems indeed like the narrative Dives are strongly trying push here :skull:


    Enhypen debut was really good too, and so was Seventeen's, so they might think they have a point


    Fortunetly Boy Next Door will bomb hard time and will dismantle this idea


    Feel bad for the guys because I loved their first song. Rest assure BND, your sacrifice won't be in vain

  • no, lesserafim's streams mostly come from hybe stans, just like nj's streams. those groups don't have strong fandoms of their own, only company stans, bc they come from hybe, duh :flirt-pepe:

    So? That doesn’t change anything. Yes being in a bigger company gives you a bigger fandom. The point is a fandom is someone who will give you streams across the album instead of just the TT. This is actually not a wrong assessment.


    Personally I don’t know IVE’s exact stats so I won’t comment on it. But the assessment of itself is not a wrong/incorrect metric.

  • These two things need not be mutually exclusive tbh. A good song released from HYBE will receive higher streams than a good song released by someone else. Doesn’t mean that every single HYBE release and group is going to be great and all perform the same.

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