I don't see how anyone (especially SONE) could support SNSD post 9/30

I felt the same after Jessica was kicked out, my interest in the group since then changed a lot.

It' s sad and all what happened, but I really didn't care that much tbh

It was a surprise at first.

I always took it as there was a really good reason as to why she was kicked out. I don't believe that a company would make a decision to kick out one of the most popular members for no reason. Especially as they were at their peak.

Jessica was also one of my two or three least favourite in the group, and she had a reputation of being lazy.

So bye!

If it was Taeyeon, Tiffany, Yuri or Seohyun instead maybe I'd feel differently.

What actually happened actually? Give me a TL/DR version please.

Quote from Drew_B

Waiting for harambelives . User only posts in SNSD threads lol

I was really upset with Jessica gate at the time especially the insinuation that the members themselves kicked her out. My love for SNSD was rocked at the time.

But soon there were so many rumours and insiders saying this that and the other that nothing was believable anymore. I mean the only thing we knew for certain was Jessica was kicked for something about her business but people were saying ridiculous things like Taeyeon was an evil mastermind, Tiffany wanted to be the only American, others wanted her lines and so on. I thought that was worse how SNSD was dragged through the mud for things nobody could confirm so I stuck with them because I still really liked them.

And it was the right choice. SNSD still had all the qualities I liked when I first saw them (their music, top talent, fun personalities, tons of content etc) and I'm still a huge fan to this day.

There's still Jessica to discuss. After Jessica gate I still tried to keep up with her activities but I didn't really like her music and had no interest in fashion. My interest in her waned over the years to the point where I didn't keep up with her but never fully went away. I would've been open to the idea of ot9 reunion.

That was until her books. I thought the idea of them was going open a can of worms especially how she said they had Easter eggs of truth to them so if course no matter how much she stressed out was fiction there was always going to be people coming up with theories on which character is who and how they are BTS. I never read them but from what I gather the 1st book was nothing out of the ordinary, a couple incidents here and there. However the 2nd book was basically demonizing the other characters and thus implicating SNSD for being generally bitchy towards her self insert character including a fucking poison attempt which never happened - that happened to Yunho. It's already one thing to appropriate someone else's almost tragedy for yourself but then use that as fire against other people who had nothing to with it was messed up. Cue everyone on Twitter and AKP trying to figure out which member tried to poison Jessica (I think the final consensus was Sooyoung lol). It was then I completely dropped Jessica and have zero interest in her. Now I'd be against ot9 reunion.

Quote from Drew_B

Damn! Never heard about Jessica being lazy. But I didn't follow them that closely.

She admitted it herself. Even apologised to Taeyeon on a variety show for not singing the chorus parts as part of the vocal line. You watch their variety content and she had this persona as the Ice Princess/Queen. Her motto was literally never run even if you are late.

Quote from Drew_B

I believe it was mostly about Jessica trying to start a fashion label while still being a member of SNSD. The other members and even their parents rebelled to have Jessica kicked out of the group for trying to use her popularity to make money outside the group.

This is one of the theories, but let's be real. Does anyone really think that this is the only reason she got kicked out? She was one of the most popular members at the time. Even if every member and every parent agreed (which I think is bizarre), you think SM would agree knowing how much backlash they would get? Also, to get kicked out for that after 7 years in the group seems overkill.

For me, after Sica gate, Snsd was very different. It was no longer about the group.

It was only about individual careers from then on.

Snsd as a group is for Sone, only the fans care about the group, the members now only care about their solo careers.

It was so obvious after they became 8.

But, Jessica is killing it so it's ok.

I wonder if they ever feel guilty for not fighting for her if they indeed voted her out.

it's been almost ten years. get over it.

Quote from sonemariam

For me, after Sica gate, Snsd was very different. It was no longer about the group.

It was only about individual careers from then on.

Snsd as a group is for Sone, only the fans care about the group, the members now only care about their solo careers.

It was so obvious after they became 8.

But, Jessica is killing it so it's ok.

I wonder if they ever feel guilty for not fighting for her if they indeed voted her out.

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Saying SNSD suddenly changed to only caring about solo careers after Jessica gate makes no lick of sense. If we assume as has always been the case that Jessica was kicked out was for something relating to her business then clearly it shows Jessica at the very least was already looking for individual careers over group. That’s BEFORE they were 8.

Naturally of course they would have to focus on individual careers anyway if they still want to continue their work years down the line. I don’t see why why you imply its a bad thing. Taeyeon wouldn’t be a top soloist today if she moped around and never focused on her music, Yoona wouldn’t be getting big roles or acclaim if she never continued with bigger acting roles, Hyoyeon might have no career at all if she didn’t focus on music and become a variety idol, Tiffany would have no career in Korea (or worse) if she took all the abuse and hate and did nothing and so on with others.

Them focusing on their careers has enabled them to last much much longer than 99% of their peers of 2G ggs and still remain successful as individuals. Over the 5 year hiatus their activities kept the SNSD name alive and created the hype and nostalgia for SNSD 15th anniversary.

Quote from harambelives

Saying SNSD suddenly changed to only caring about solo careers after Jessica gate makes no lick of sense. If we assume as has always been the case that Jessica was kicked out was for something relating to her business then clearly it shows Jessica at the very least was already looking for individual careers over group.

Naturally of course they would have to focus on individual careers anyway if they still want to continue their work years down the line. I don’t see why why you imply its a bad thing. Taeyeon wouldn’t be a top soloist today if she moped around and never focused on her music, Yoona wouldn’t be getting big roles or acclaim if she never continued with bigger acting roles, Hyoyeon might have no career at all if she didn’t focus on music and become a variety idol, Tiffany would have no career in Korea (or worse) if she took all the abuse and hate and did nothing and so on with others.

Them focusing on their careers has enabled them to last much much longer than 99% of their peers of 2G ggs and still remain successful as individuals. Over the 5 year hiatus their activities kept the SNSD name alive and created the hype and nostalgia for SNSD 15th anniversary.

Where do I imply that it is a bad thing?

3 members left SM knowing that it would reduce their chances of ever promoting as Snsd again.

Sunny is clearly done with music.

The remaining 5 don't promote as a group but forcus on their individual careers. They would rather become YouTubers, djs, actresses, variety show experts, soloists or anything but promote as a group.

They used to do a lot of solo stuff even before Jessica left which means they can do both but now, they choose solo work over the group.

I'm not even mad at it but it's the truth.

I mean I wasnt there so I’m not going to personally judge the group members, but i definitely liked their sound with Jessica more than without (however Party and All Night are hands down the best SNSD songs in existence)

Quote from Drew_B

People will get over it once the truth is revealed!

then why doesn't jessica reveal what actually happened? explicitly, too. not these weird accusations that she included in her books like being drugged out of jealousy or whatever. her career is toast in south korea so what does she have to lose?

Quote from sonemariam

Where do I imply that it is a bad thing?

3 members left SM knowing that it would reduce their chances of ever promoting as Snsd again.

Sunny is clearly done with music.

The remaining 5 don't promote as a group but forcus on their individual careers. They would rather become YouTubers, djs, actresses, variety show experts, soloists or anything but promote as a group.

They used to do a lot of solo stuff even before Jessica left which means they can do both but now, they choose solo work over the group.

I'm not even mad at it but it's the truth.

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Your entire post basically implied it’s bad

Quote from sonemariam

For me, after Sica gate, Snsd was very different. It was no longer about the group.

It was only about individual careers from then on.

Snsd as a group is for Sone, only the fans care about the group, the members now only care about their solo careers.

It was so obvious after they became 8.

But, Jessica is killing it so it's ok.

I wonder if they ever feel guilty for not fighting for her if they indeed voted her out.

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SNSD is a group for Sone.

Yeah no shit. Every group is primarily aimed for fans.

Only the fans care about SNSD.

Again, fans are the primary audience. Plus We saw their 15th anniversary on the charts and tv appearances public care.

The members only care about their solo career.

The fact that they regular kept in touch and even appeared on shows together in small groups showed SNSD was still part of them. SM was willing to only give them a single but they all fought for a full album, why be so assertive over something they don’t care about? They were planning a cb since last year (delayed due to coivd and 15 sounds better than 14 lol), why plan a cb at all if they only cared for themselves?

And you’re still putting them down for choosing solo work. Being an actress, DJ, tv host etc is useless according to you even though that’s their passions and pathways to navigate the entertainment industry. You say Sunny is done with music, of course she is, she's literally said herself she doesn't want to go the route of solo music and much prefers TV. Like I said they are still active and relevant today because of their solo careers. In comparison many of their peers form yesteryear have faded into the background both as groups and individuals.

I don’t get why you think having solo careers is a bad thing when it’s the key reason why they’re still around to this day. Like I mentioned if a member like Tiffany caved into to all the hate and fucked off into a hiding hole and only appeared for any SNSD related activity guess what, she’d have zero career. She wouldn’t have appeared on a ton of shows, she wouldn’t have new cfs, she wouldn’t have a musical, she wouldn’t be an actress. Her being proactive attitude rejuvenated her career to where she can stand on her own 2 feet and to top it off she still promoted with SNSD. In your ideal world she’d be alone twiddling her thumbs and fully reliant on SNSD to save her or keep her relevant . That’s pathetic.

The jessica case broke me. I hated everything from SM and went on an anti SM phase for a few years whilst being a devoted golden star (Jessica fan name). I couldn’t hate SNSD members no matter what so I followed them regularly but not like before but I shifted that rage to the label ie never checking anything from SM at all. In fact I pretty much gave up on all kpop at the first year of Jessica’s departure because everyone else made her name a taboo. I remember following Kris 🤢 and even Seungri 🤢 *barf* for awhile because they’re one of the few idols who interacted with her on camera and didn’t pretend she didn’t exist. I understood that she was kicked out with members agreement due to a conflict but what made me upset was not the conflict but the fact they never addressed her and never explained their side properly which just fueled my anger.

Over the years I just couldn’t not fangirl on SNSD’s activities forever because they’re just that good. I was less upset because it’s unfair to hold a grudge over it for that long. It’s not like they bullied her or committed a crime. It was an ugly fight but I got over it as a fan and I could see both Jessica and SNSD members moved on with their careers so no point in feeling mad anymore. I kept thinking maybe one day they will reconcile and all the conflict will be in the past so I just followed SNSD members careers again as a fan (and tbh Jessica hadn’t put out anything for a while so…).

Although I was fangirling over SNSD, there were moments that disappointed me and I was loud in voicing them like that time Taeyeon corrected that person saying she was almost an SNSD member or that time Sooyoung corrected the Sone that answered number 9 as an important number for SNSD. And I still stand by that but I don’t feel as strongly about Jessica’s case as I was before.

What made me change my entire mindset is ironically Jessica’s book explaining the incident of her forced departure because she was getting on the members’ nerves for awhile by skipping rehearsals and prioritizing her brand at that intense time and then getting an ultimatum which she broke and eventually what got her kicked out.

Idk it felt like someone telling a normal friends fight story from their perspective only. Moments like x character folding her arms, y character rolling her eyes… etc. But nothing about the main character aka the victim’s attitude because they themselves don’t realize it and only focus on the other characters’ attitude. If it were an omniscient narrator, you would see the bigger picture on how that main character was acting when x character was rolling her eye and the likes.

It just hit me that not only we had only one side of the story, but the whole conflict kinda made sense and wasn’t an exaggerated villains vs victim story like I imagined. Not that I think they were right to kick her out but it wasn’t as bad as I believed especially since it was from her perspective only. Maybe the members’ silence that I hated all these years was wise of them.

my 2 cents. snsd messed up real bad. they kicked jessica out to keep the group going longer only for tiffany, seohyun and sooyoung leaving for reasons like scandals or lack of attention from sm. It must have been awkward for taeyeon. Jessica was just ahead of her peers. 7 years is more than enough in a kpop group.

Quote from harambelives

Your entire post basically implied it’s bad

SNSD is a group for Sone.

Yeah no shit. Every group is primarily aimed for fans.

Only the fans care about SNSD.

Again, fans are the primary audience. Plus We saw their 15th anniversary on the charts and tv appearances public care.

The members only care about their solo career.

The fact that they regular kept in touch and even appeared on shows together in small groups showed SNSD was still part of them. SM was willing to only give them a single but they all fought for a full album, why be so assertive over something they don’t care about? They were planning a cb since last year (delayed due to coivd and 15 sounds better than 14 lol), why plan a cb at all if they only cared for themselves?

And you’re still putting them down for choosing solo work. Being an actress, DJ, tv host etc is useless according to you even though that’s their passions and pathways to navigate the entertainment industry. You say Sunny is done with music, of course she is, she's literally said herself she doesn't want to go the route of solo music and much prefers TV. Like I said they are still active and relevant today because of their solo careers. In comparison many of their peers form yesteryear have faded into the background both as groups and individuals.

I don’t get why you think having solo careers is a bad thing when it’s the key reason why they’re still around to this day. Like I mentioned if a member like Tiffany caved into to all the hate and fucked off into a hiding hole and only appeared for any SNSD related activity guess what, she’d have zero career. She wouldn’t have appeared on a ton of shows, she wouldn’t have new cfs, she wouldn’t have a musical, she wouldn’t be an actress. Her being proactive attitude rejuvenated her career to where she can stand on her own 2 feet and to top it off she still promoted with SNSD. In your ideal world she’d be alone twiddling her thumbs and fully reliant on SNSD to save her or keep her relevant . That’s pathetic.

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Lol! It's not that deep, it's just the truth. I'm not trying to put them down, I just mentioned it how it is.

Quote from sonemariam

Lol! It's not that deep, it's just the truth. I'm not trying to put them down, I just mentioned it how it is.

You say it's not that deep but you are the one that came up with a completely fictional theory and doubled down on it.

Quote from harambelives

You say it's not that deep but you are the one that came up with a completely fictional theory and doubled down on it.

What's fictional about anything I've said?

I just said it how it is, obviously, it's not like how you want it to be but everything I've said is true.

Quote from sonemariam

What's fictional about anything I've said?

I just said it how it is, obviously, it's not like how you want it to be but everything I've said is true.

Dude I've already posted twice explaining why your theories and assumptions are flat out wrong based on very obvious and the simplest observations on the members, the group and the kpop landscape.

Quote from Drew_B

Everyone please calm down lol. I didn't expect SONE to be fighting amongst each other in this thread.

Quote from harambelives

Dude I've already posted twice explaining why your theories and assumptions are flat out wrong based on very obvious and the simplest observations on the members, the group and the kpop landscape.

Even Hyoyeon confessed to the girls having a different heart about promoting because they are no longer rookies and became too big. They no longer go back to the basics.

I know it's hard to hear but it's the truth.

Quote from sonemariam

Even Hyoyeon confessed to the girls having a different heart about promoting because they are no longer rookies and became too big. They no longer go back to the basics.

I know it's hard to hear but it's the truth.

That's not part of what you initially said or what I'm countering against. That's just an unrelated quote (though surprise I think you got it wrong as Hyoyeon made a comment like because she was joking that are didn't want to perform with a rookie mindset because Sooyoung did and was annoying to work with during practices).

Look, you either spout crap that don't even understand like a Trump looney does or you're trolling. Whatever the case re read your posts and my replies. That's your point and my answer. I'm not going to rewrite it again.

Quote from harambelives

SNSD is a group for Sone.

Yeah no shit. Every group is primarily aimed for fans.

im not sone. only learned about kpop long after jessica gate etc.

its still the famous snsd no matter if its past their prime or not.

They deserve to be supported. i liked their last comeback.

In these situations I normally side and come to the defence of the Majority over the Individual

Majority of T-ARA

Majority of AOA

Majority of SNSD

Majority of APRIL

With the caveat that there is always some truth to the grievances of the Individual

Like I have zero doubt all the individuals there felt like they were done wrong in some way, but people when this stuff comes to light have a tendency to double down on even the small things and almost feel they have to tie themselves to this new victim identity to even survive partly because the Public response to these things can be explosive

SNSD's case seems one of the most Transparent to me, the remaining 8 Girls all get along still even after several have no longer been with the company for years