4th Gen Girl Groups lack a mid tier

    It's hard to say if it's interesting or concerning, but an aspect I've noticed is there's no real mid tier in regards to 4th Gen Girl Groups.


    Either you're top of the mountain or barely getting by. It's a real haves and have nots situation.


    Previous gens there were groups that could chart well, but couldn't sell or sold great but charted poorly and a lot that charted decent and also just sold decent (relatively speaking). But nowadays it feels like either you're top of the charts and selling gang busters, or you can't see the top 100 and struggle to even do 50k.



    Now there are two exceptions. Fromis 9 who sells decent and charts decent and Loona who at least sells decent but two groups doesn't really make a mid tier. It feels like a lot of these groups haven't landed as strongly as they should have.

    Quote from Fluffers

    StayC sells so much more than Loona or Fromis 9 and they chart amazingly.


    They are no Mid tier

    they sell more then loona but less then aespa which is one of the top 4th gen groups so i would consider them mid tier by your standards

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    again rather than rambling on with names of groups and whether one considers a group to be mid or upper or whatever which is all subjective


    the real question is what defines a tier...what is considered top tier or mid tier? is it albums sold? goan points? music show wins? YT numbers? spotify numbers? korean or international? and then deciding on each of their weighting...

    Quote from selfmate

    again rather than rambling on with names of groups and whether one considers a group to be mid or upper or whatever which is all subjective


    the real question is what defines a tier...what is considered top tier or mid tier? is it albums sold? goan points? music show wins? YT numbers? spotify numbers? korean or international? and then deciding on each of their weighting...


    Quote from selfmate

    exactly but how and what and are there more or less or other criteria...

    but I guess those things aren't as fun as just throwing out a name and let the "fighting" commence lol

    I quite clearly stated in the OP charting and album sales.

    Quote from Fluffers

    I quite clearly stated in the OP charting and album sales.

    where? what is the criteria?


    you mention certain things but why that criteria?


    or you can't see the top 100 and struggle to even do 50k.

    and what charting korean charting? melon? gaon? do we rank them? is it longevity vs peak?

    what makes a group hit "top tier" instead of mid tier? what makes a group considered mid tier and not bottom tier...

    why not international? does spotify or YT make a difference?


    you see where I'm getting at my friend?

  • AllKill VIP
    Quote from bobsyouruncle

    the STAYC erasure :pepenomad:

    STAYC isn't mid tier tho

    they are top tier

    even RUN2U outpeaked ASAP on Melon Chart and young-luv.com has something about 250k sales on GAON


    if you think about 4th gen groups which 'still are managing'/'already are able' to chart songs well those are:


    (G)I-DLE, STAYC, aespa and IVE


    groups like Kep1er, NMIXX, might have sales on their side but they need good song to 'crack' those charts as well

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    But when the best selling groups sell over 200k albums. Can find their songs in the top 30 of every korean chart for at least a month and every other GG can't hit 100k, hell a lot of them can't even reach half of it, or the top 100 for any amount of time.


    Maybe it's too obvious to me what the difference between who's big and who isn't is.


    But hey, maybe it's not readily evident to everyone else.

    you keep mentioning the numbers but not the reason why those numbers

    why is 200K the cut off in your opinion my friend?

    why not 100K or 150K for example?


    top 30 of every chart? why? and why for a month? why use that particular criteria and that particular time frame?

    and again why only K charting? again does spotify or YT views contribute anything (or nothing?) why/why not?


    you keep mentioning big vs not big - my question is to define criteria (in yours and other's opinions) to ascertain what is considered big and why that's considered big...or what is considered good charting vs "average charting" vs "poor charting" and again why one considers it so...


    and then one hasn't even gone on to determine well what if a group does well in one criteria aka charting and not so well in another - how does that rank in terms of "top vs mid teir"


    for example Gidle - tomboy multiple PAKS top song but they didn't sell much compared to say Nmixx who sold 2 or 3 times Gidle (I think) so where does that leave Nmixx compared to Gidle...


    you see where I'm coming from my friend?

    Edited once, last by selfmate ().

    If only Korean chart matter why album sales matter? You can buy albums outside from Korea and inflate those numbers.

    They're not the cut off point cause there's nobody around that point. It's why I highlighted the miles wide birth between the top and the bottom. Since folks are so willing to dismiss the placement of Fromis 9 and Loona, that gap just becomes all the more obvious.


    The usage is because it's common. Every big group is doing something similar to that number. The criteria is constants, averages. If a collection does something similar to each other repeatedly, then it's clearly the norm for a collection of groups.


    Any major site, reviwer or historian would call SNSD, Kara, T-ara, 2ne1 and WG top tiers of the gen 2. Same with Red Velvet, Black Pink, Twice and Mamamoo of Gen 3. Are their numbers effectively the same? Hell no But their averages were so far beyond the other contemporaries that it's obvious that they were top tiers and other groups were not

    Quote from Fluffers

    StayC sells so much more than Loona or Fromis 9 and they chart amazingly.


    They are no Mid tier

    The only top tear gen 4 groups are Aespa Gidle and Ive.


    Midtear StayC, Itzy


    Low tear and nugu, that is to be debated.

    It will become more clear in the following years. I doubt all these so called top groups will stay the same. Maybe yg gg or ador can shake things up but rn yes it does seem like there’s not many groups who are obviously midtier. Rn aespa, IVE and maybe itzy seem like they will stay top groups but not sure about the rest.

    Ps: stream young-luv.com album by stayc

    Quote from Kairina

    There are tho kep1er,loona,stayc,billlie,everglow,nmixx,purple kiss,weekly :pepe-notes:

    Girl did you just put Stayc who charted at number 3 on melon, sold 280 k copies of their album and accumulating 7 music show win with their latest comeback in the same category as purple kiss, Everglow and weekly ???? :huuh:

    Also the gap is too huge between Billlie, Purple Kiss, Everglow, weekly and Nmixx, Kepler, Loona and StayC

    Also listing Nmixx as mid tier most be a jock

    Quote from nana18

    Girl did you just put Stayc who charted at number 3 on melon, sold 280 k copies of their album and accumulating 7 music show win with their latest comeback in the same category as purple kiss, Everglow and weekly ???? :huuh:

    Also the gap is too huge between Billlie, Purple Kiss, Everglow, weekly and Nmixx, Kepler, Loona and StayC

    Also listing Nmixx as mid tier most be a jock

    nmixx is definitely mid tier, the only thing that isnt mid tier about them would be their music ranking at low tier :pepe-tea:


    they are talented, just saying based on sales and charting.

    LAFBL0s.gif

    let us gather around for the lord’s prayer:

    Nævis we love you. You are the one who protected me when i was in trouble. MY victory, one SYNK DIVE. I know your sacrifices. Let’s meet surely after the resurrection.

    Æmen

    :pepe-pray:

    Edited once, last by bobsyouruncle ().

    Stayc - Mid tier, their peak on melon was 7 with run2u but its lacking longevity, its not going over 200m on gaon, and their biggest hit ASAP has about 460m. YT and Spotify is not good, at most 60m in both

    Kep1er - Mid tier, don't have a great charting in sk, wadada only made it to top70 on melon and has like 50m on gaon, international stats are better, but nothing way too surprisive, 100m on YT and 80m on spotify

    NMIXX - Mid tier, peak was similar or worse than Kep1er on melon and on Gaon have like 30m I believe, international numbers are similar to Stayc

    Less Serafim - Mid tier for now, Fearless is peaking at 14, if it goes to top10 still need another comeback, but ain't joining the tops groups

    Loona - semi mid tier, have worst stats in both domestic and internationally, but their fame is likely bigger than names above.

    These are mid tiers, Physicals sales are nothing to brag considering the kpop boom sales, but even with that they have similar stats except for loona. All of them did 240k+ and only NMIXX with multiple fancalls grew to 470k, next comeback will prove how many sales they get without the fansign and not cheaper albums

    mid tier can be tricky, but this is what I would do

    top tier/popular:

    - Kepler

    - Nmixx

    - Ive

    - Aespa

    - StayC (would do high mid tier but they're have good domestic popularity and good int popularity)

    - (G)I-DLE

    - Itzy

    - Le Sserafim? (any group from hybe is popular tbh)

    higher mid tierish

    - Loona

    - Fromis_9

    - Billlie (they've been gaining popularity though )

    - Weekly

    - Purki

    - Tri.Be

    - Secret Number (?)

    mid kinda lower mid tierish

    - CheBul

    - Woo!Ah

    - Rocket Punch

    - Lightsum

    - WeMe

    - Bugaboo

    nugu. just nugu sadly.

    - Fanatics

    - Nature

    - Blackswan

    - Purplebeck

    - Cignature

    - Ariaz

    - BlingBling

    - Ily:1

    - Majors

    - Saturday

    - Pink Fantasy

    - Dreamnote

    - 3YE

    - Pixy

    - H1KEY

    - Botopass

    - Rocking Doll

    - Skyle

    - I'Chillin

    - Red Square

    - Grey-Ish

    much more, if I named all of them I would run out of space

    Quote from Fluffers

    They're not the cut off point cause there's nobody around that point. It's why I highlighted the miles wide birth between the top and the bottom. Since folks are so willing to dismiss the placement of Fromis 9 and Loona, that gap just becomes all the more obvious.


    The usage is because it's common. Every big group is doing something similar to that number. The criteria is constants, averages. If a collection does something similar to each other repeatedly, then it's clearly the norm for a collection of groups.


    Any major site, reviwer or historian would call SNSD, Kara, T-ara, 2ne1 and WG top tiers of the gen 2. Same with Red Velvet, Black Pink, Twice and Mamamoo of Gen 3. Are their numbers effectively the same? Hell no But their averages were so far beyond the other contemporaries that it's obvious that they were top tiers and other groups were not

    then why mention 200K then which also begs the question of again what is the cut off point for determining top vs mid vs bottom and is there one at all?


    what is common about top 30? why not top 25 or top 10 or top 50? how is it common? common to whom? according to what standard is it common? you mention every big group does it? or the fourth? or another generation? are you saying you've averaged out the numbers and it comes to 30 being the cut off rank over a month?


    and again it begs the question what chart are we looking at? all of them? melon? and why that and not goan for example?


    well I'm neither a reviewer or historian I'm merely asking questions a lot of which I don't have the answers for...

    you mention those groups and the question is what were their sales like? how well did they chart? on average is that what we're looking at?

    when you say averages what are we averaging? their sales? average sales for each group? average sales across the "top groups"?


    shouldn't the criteria determine who is in what tier as oppose to the other way around or are you claiming that once we know who the top groups are then we use that grouping of top tier to determine the criteria?

    You're really god damn pedantic with these numbers as if my statement is set on those as if it's a hard and fast rule. It's a gauge of averages.


    And yes, I am saying it's about relativity. You're the kinda dude who goes "Oh man, how can we know 20 isn't close to 2, I mean it's further from 100 than it is from 2." You're saying nothing, you're offering no alternative. You're not even offering a stress test of a devil advocate. You're just going why like we're supposed to do this like a peer review. It's unproductive engagement at best and just really god damn annoying at worst.

    Taking into account the following arbitrary factors; stats - charting (KR&Int), album sales, MV views, awards & wins and intangibles - hype (kr&int), recognition, brand endorsements, viral clips etc


    In no particular order;

    Top Tier (at the top of most metrics above): Aespa, Ive, Itzy, Gidle


    B Tier (lacking a few metrics above) : StayC, Le Sserafim, Kepler, Nmixx


    C Tier (good in around half the metrics above): Fromis9, Loona, Weeekly, Billie


    D Tier (good in one or two metrics): Secret Number, Purple Kiss, Rocket Punch, Cherry Bullet, Lightsum


    Nugu Tier (sorry): everyone else I dont know


    Mid can be B-D or C-D imo.

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