Lack of song success is the reason why Seventeen doesn't feel all that big in popularity?

I guess

It may contribute but in the grand scheme of things it mainly comes down to the geographical spread of their fans.

Album sales for groups such as Seventeen mainly comes down to their popularity in SK, Japan and China than they do anywhere else (these 3 you'd say are the biggest album buying countries along with the US now for kpop). Therefore it's also not surprising for example that their Spotify numbers do not correlate with their album sales as Spotify is tiny in SK, only recently growing in Japan and I don't even know if it exists in China. These countries are also not going to be a big presence on English speaking media which is how most international kpop fans will get exposure to hype and discussions, which then forms opinions on how large a group is.

Whereas Stray Kids for example you'd say are not that popular in SK, Japan or China, but their spread of fans is more western therefore their sales correlate with Spotify more. They also therefore have more fans on the media that forms international fans opinions. It's perception. if you were on Korean forums I don't think Seventeen would feel small compared to a bunch of other groups.

People used to say the same similar things about Twice too. Twice would comfortably outsell BP for years whilst BP were nearly always seen as the more popular group, the common drag from BP fans and a bunch of others about Twice was their sales were only in a few places and that they were a "local" group. Twice obviously were not local but their anomalous sales early on did mainly stem from their absolute dominance in SK and Japan, which early on in the 3rd gen was the key market to sell big (unless you were EXO with China or BTS in the west).

Seventeen's Youtube views in the last 12 months looks like this and really I find it pretty rare to find a kpop group with Japan and South Korea as the top two, yet alone being so close as well. SEA countries usually drive this for most kpop groups, countries which SK is pretty small against.

This is Stray Kids in the last 12 months, a mix that much more leans towards countries that will use English speaking media/forums and whatnot.

Quote from quarkie

Which 4th gen groups with high Spotify streams have more hits than Seventeen?

I wouldn't call them hits but skz txt and enhypen are doing better than svt on spotify. they debuted later but have more songs over the 100 million streams. And more monthly listeners too

Quote from quarkie

They also have fandoms obsessed with being the fastest group to do X on Spotify. Not every fandom consumes music like it's their job.

weird take

you're so petty and for what

NCT is also another good example for that. I think it's because they are large groups.

Quote from quarkie

They also have fandoms obsessed with being the fastest group to do X on Spotify. Not every fandom consumes music like it's their job.

excuses

Quote from Bpsosoro

Nobody was saying bp was more popular than twic eback in the day expect for toxic blinks. Everyone in 2019,2018 and back saying that twice was overrall more popular but bp was just more popular internationally while twice has Japan and Korea in lockdown

And doesn’t these YouTube stats show skz is more popular than svt, seem s,Ike they have more views.

Svt never had a big hit, closest thing is aju nice which did well but I wouldn’t call it a hit.

Ah suddenly you stan Blackpink

Quote from quarkie

So then answer my original question: which 4th gen groups with higher Spotify streams have more hits than Seventeen?

the other user already answered

you're only saying all of this because you're an nct stan

spotify is one of the biggest streaming platforms worldwide. Ofcourse it somewhat matters. You should never look at one thing only anyways.

just stop

Quote from quarkie

So then answer my original question: which 4th gen groups with higher Spotify streams have more hits than Seventeen?

If you’re talking about GG well it will be easy to respond for BG fever, Polaroid, god menu are quite popular. Also Spotify is one of the biggest streaming platform in the world ofc it’s a metric of success

Quote from quarkie

The other user literally said they weren't hits.

I never said it's about hits? and it's kpop we're talking about. only bts and blackpink really have worldwide hits

I responded to you saying spotify is irrelevant

I think SVT & NCT are similar cases. They’re considered top groups because they have the sales & fanbase, but they don’t really have any memorable hit or hits amongst the GP so they won’t be considered in the upper echelons like Exo/BTS who are always amongst previous top tier boy groups.

Are you saying this is the reason they aren’t placed along side twice and exo or are you saying this is why they aren’t recognized within other comparable BGs like NCT or other 4th gens?

If it’s first part yeah it goes for all current BGs not just seventeen none of them are considered at that level without a GP hit.

If it’s the second part it’s because their fans are less loud on the international platforms. But I personally would put them up there.

Quote from quarkie

It's popular in many countries, but it's not the most popular in every country. If Seventeen is more popular in countries where other music platforms are more dominant then of course their streams are going to be impacted. This has been explained before.

It means absolutely nothing SVT 2nd biggest markets is Japan where Spotify is huge huge plus I’m sure they have a big following fanbase in SEA and Spotify is quite popular here too but I agree with your first point I think also the fact carats aren’t as loud so they will not throw their achievements down to everyone throats but also I don’t think they have that obsession to streams as much as other groups.

Quote from Bpsosoro

Nobody was saying bp was more popular than twic eback in the day expect for toxic blinks. Everyone in 2019,2018 and back saying that twice was overrall more popular but bp was just more popular internationally while twice has Japan and Korea in lockdown

And doesn’t these YouTube stats show skz is more popular than svt, seem s,Ike they have more views.

Svt never had a big hit, closest thing is aju nice which did well but I wouldn’t call it a hit.

It definitely wasn't just BP fans.

Define popular - for arguments sake lets say Seventeen had 10m fans combined but they were all based only in China, Japan and South Korea with decent recognition in all three, whereas Stray Kids had 8 million but dispersed worldwide in smaller clusters but there's not any specific locations where they're big. Who's more popular? Their numbers on different platforms will vary due to the geographical concentration of their fans.

It's perception and how you define popularity, especially when you look outside of the biggest groups.

Quote from quarkie

I'm not being petty. 4th gen fans consume music different and plenty of them are obsessed with achievements.

It's already been well established in multiple threads on this site that Spotify streams are not a decent metric for popularity.

They are gonna boo you but you are right.

Blackpink, Seventeen and NCT have to compete with BTS, so even all three did great, their achievements are overshadowed by this one big shining star. Blackpink at least can claim for GGs but not for the other two. Exo and Twice have cemented their status before BTS blew up so they have no problem.

People usually look at the best so being second or third made acts seem less popular but they are not.

They got their pysical sales. Many (I mean it by many) korean singers/ idols wish to have seventeen physical album sales. And they don't have SM/ JYP/ HYBE/ YG kind of resources to back them up. It's fine.

Nct can't catch a break even on threads about Seventeen

Quote from atropos

First part. I always see people say how svt is underestimated and i feel no hits is the reason.

No people don’t really say the first. Not even seventeen fans themselves. An all round success across Korean digitals and physical sales was always the standard for a “top group”

A GG without physical sales and BG without Korean hit usually don’t get the coveted “top group” title.

Absolutely,u need a representative song

Yes. I know seventeen but I don't know any song or their, literally.

Yeah they don't have hit level of hits but which current active top 3rd gen/4th gen bg does besides bts anyway. Also i guess for bgs, album sales and touring power factor in way more

Quote from atropos

I guess between the two options the first one was closer and not really the absolute reason. But it's mostly why people still don't really consider svt as a popular group as they are arguably #2 among bgs after bts. Why they are doing well but people don't consider them as a big shot.

That’s for every BG not just seventeen like I said. These group need to have a hit in their home country. That’s always been the standard.

Whatever the case, I think Seventeen/their team should consider adapting a JYPE/Twice "multi-regional strategy". They should consider doing at least a mini-album every so often specifically targeted for "western listening inclinations" and/or sprinkle at least a quarter of these styled songs consistently in their K-Pop albums. Plus, they have two members from the East and West Coast of the US. That could make recording and promo of any English-language tracks breezy.

It's not like they would have to start from scratch. They have existing songs with this kind of appeal in 'Heng:garæ', 'An Ode', 'Semicolon', and 'You Make My Day'. Woozi and Bumzu already worked with Wonderkid and can do so again.

If they need to, they can mindmap Seventeen's "sound" and any musical inspirations for potential "ideational-jump points".

I think bcoz they're a fandom driven group so they're only popular among fans but not with the GP

That's just me