pretty good for an unknown, irrelevant group!
That group has 23 members there is bound to be a bunch of filler members cope
I doubt two users who constantly shade a group can give unbiased opinions about their line-up, talents, sales and recognition. your opinion about something you dislike isn't a fact.
filler members are usually members public doesnt recognize or care about as far as i know
or all visuals will be filler members but they are far from it
Taeil,the main vocal you left out, has an OST released this year with over 1m ULs on melon, if he's a filler what could we said about the rest of idols then
SM just don't/can't align with US tastes, so they're either ignorant or incapable, judging by the fact that they've tried and not stuck the landing on multiple occasions
Even the whole SM system and sense of artist management is so antithetical to what appeals to most of the west. They've got:
- scandals and controversies galore (across lines of race, nationality, gender, age, contract disputes)
- SM artists not contributing to the creation process
- a fixation on lipsyncing
All of these thing make sense to people who have grown up knowing this process but it's much harder to explain that to the US audience, who do care about backstories and the artist's journey so to speak. It's just a much less appealing narrative
Like the groups with biggest success in the US haven't done the same things you listed multiple times? literally all big companies have such cases. hybe, yg, jype, all their top groups were part of the controversies you point out, so how it does prevent SM groups from being super big in the US when it has allowed others to be successful there?
All this talk is just a big amount of generalizing that is always negative when it comes to SM idols. How can anybody put SHINee and lipsync or nct and lack of participation in the same sentences? Each group under SM has different qualities just like not everyone under HYBE is as involved in their music like BTS or everyone in YG as popular individually as BP.
Really can't believe how much how racist and xenophobic vibes I can get from some users here just when the topic Is about SM groups. Don't like their music or groups in general? Okay, ignore them then.
But is it necessary to think about reasons why others don't like them and link it to common racist tropes like "asians are cloned" "USA taste is superior than China's" "koreans are plastic" "they dance like robots, can't write their own music, they are puppets"
Like you guys also stan korean idols and advocate for less asian hate yet act like the usual ignorant racist who thinks all asians are the same when it comes to SM groups. Leave your company stan behavior behind and see what's wrong with your way of thinking.
Not even 1 group in sm gives me western appeal. From members having cloned faces, experimental music, groups having several members, the concept, perfect persona, by the book complex dance, not much artistry, etc.
This isn't a bad thing though since they were the first ones to open kpop and many of their traits was adapted by others but they really shouldn't try too hard on making it to the west when they're the opposite of what westerners like. Maybe focus on their target audience which is mainly the Asian audience. Too bad China banned idols entering in their country, they could have gained so much $$$ there even without western money.
Now why is cloned faves used to drag SM groups, that's such a weird comment and gives racist vibes.
And it's clear you don't know what you are talking about because SM groups have very different appeals and what you describe as a particular SM group attribute is very false. Many members? Aespa, RV fx, SHINee have 4-5 members. They are very different from nct and suju.
Perfect persona act is just so dumb, every single idol IS trained to be perfect in public yet many break that image once they aren't rookies anymore. It was never exclusive to SM or do you ignore all these idols talking about how their companies forced a certain image on them, the dating bans, the perfect boyfriend act etc in fact sm idols like suju and SNSD were the first ones to get popular in variety shows due to their relatable and funny personality which broke the idol image.
Artistry? The nct members have been more involved in their music this year than some of these "popular groups in the US" have been in their whole careers, be serious.
This whole "westerners have superior taste and they like real artists" is such a big lie, can't believe how people still have that mentality of anything western related=better or superior.
Like the above comment said I'm pretty sure this isn't about tour because dream has zero solo concerts this years, they only did festivals. This list is very inaccurate tbh like I'm sure none of the companies have released their mid-year reports yet
was she in charge of "ice cream cake"? because a lot of the mv shots and styling were questionable. I remember it happened in the same year as IU's huge lolita controversy with "twenty-three" (even tho she was already an adult) and when people tried to point out the double standards of underage yeri in "ice cream cake" those people were dog piled. so min heejin (or maybe just red velvet fans) def had her defenders back in 2015 along with the critics.
She was in charge of early red velvet too? Because the ice crean cake era had MHJ vibe and I don't mean it as positive. I guess there's a reason why I couldn't stan SM groups back then now I'm a nctzen and love aespa + some of their other groups recent concepts. Sherlock was such a great song and the performances were A+ but these concept pics were TOO much for 13-years-old me. Something about Pink Tape/Shadow mv track was very interesting but also had too grown vibes for me
The group with a sold out US tour
Second highest 4thgen GG sales
Second highest GG sales in 2022
Second fastest kpop GG (and fastest JYPE artist) to hit 60M youtube views in 2022 (and 4th overall)
First Jype GG to surpass 400k sales on Hanteo in 1 week
Incredible social engagement
Continual praise for their stage performance skills
are FIGHTING to save their failed, collpased, DESTROYED careers. They will be begging for scraps on the street by end of 2022
Yes, absolutely, Sneakers under-performed badly and a course correction is needed, but "save their careers"? Their careers are fine dear.
I also dont get how hanteo can be more than Gaon.
Gaon - track shipment
Hanteo - track customer sales
Hanteo > gaon means more customer bought than label shipped.. it is weird unless label shipped to non-gaon certified stores which is hanteo certified (confusing @.@)
it's really weird because in all my time as kpop fan i have only seen it happening few times but the numbers on gaon grew bigger after a few weeks, like with baekhyuun latest album. if g-idle album indeed had more hanteo than gaon for months it's really a curious case and funny how nobody ever questioned it lol
Smaller groups also match. I feel you should probably cast a more extensive net before making absolute statements.
No. Hanteo is hanteo certified sellers selling direct to customer. Gaon certification is shipping - SM store is Gaon certified. They sell to say Ktown4u (as just a general example), and that's a Gaon sale. Ktown4u has yet to sell that to the customer. It's possible to have Hanteo above Gaon.
There are Hanteo certified customers outside of Korea. They're a completely separate entity measuring direct sales.
Funnily enough, all the commentary now that this has been pointed out is "oh everyone always knows". Funny that pointing out what "everyone knows" is getting a pretty hostile reaction.
It's not about your faves, it's simply that labels are using stock sales or production runs as "pre-orders" both *technically* true in the sense they are order to be shipped, but disingenuously presented as sales when they are yet to be such. I'll say the same no matter who group is, but this is probably the most recent example and honestly, the most egregious.
Isn't it really weird for a group to have more hanteo sales than gaon? I remember cube being suspected of sajaegi when 4minute volumen up had bigger sales on hanteo than gaon. If anything g idle having such numbers is the fishy thing here
can't wait to ilegally stream it
Yeah I only didn't add them because I wasn't sure if they were considered 3rd or 4th gen, considering their units lol
that's how it's for nct, either they are too old to be considered competition to the newer groups or they are too new to be mentioned with 3rd gen groups
Soon we will have argumentos about them being 5th gen lol
Maybe it doesn't feel that way because people use current album sales or digital streaming numbers as measures of a group's overall popularity but most SM groups have had HUGE international fanbases at one point or another.
I'm sure I'm missing some but all of those groups, when they were very active, had huge international fanbases. It's a lot easier to understand the scale if you look at how the group was received at their peak. Mind you, many of these groups were the first in SM to sell a certain number or get certain achievements at the time that they were super active.
Nct is also 3rd gen you can't mention RV having big international fanbase but not them like...
aespa are also breaking SM ggs records on international charts like Spotify, billboard, etc