I think you need to read again because I never said which one should be more important, everyone is free to follow whatever chart they want but dragging fans and artists because of it is what I don't agree with, especially when it goes to the conspiracy territory of fake sales and fraud.
And it's very interesting you went to the SM stans part first, says a lot about how you see the issue
That's if SM ever gives us the world tour dates, it's been a year since they announced it and only Japan got dates...
I think the tour numbers are definitely interesting and more fun that streams, I was looking at a twitter account that shares the amount of tickets sold and the money they earn, and i was surprised at some kpop groups doing very small venues like 1k-3k capacity. I wonder how much money they made out of that vs physical sales, digitals etc
I feel like people who joined the kpop community after a certain point have only been in and around the "you must have x amount of spotify streams/youtube views" mindset to the point that they think it's the only metric. Like I've seen it pop up a few times (with 4th gen fandoms especially) where someone will make a case for their 4th gen group being more relevant than a 2nd or 3rd gen group solely because of streams.
And when they are faced with the reality that these 3rd gen acts with low Spotify numbers make more money than their faves with much bigger numbers ...
True, they don't need to match to be successful but streams are still the most relevant metric in the streaming era of music.
At the end of the day kpop groups make the most money out of tours and cfs, Spotify streams aren't going to get them more of these than melon charts and physical sales already do.
So it isn't a big deal imo but everyone is free to trust whatever chart they prefer.
because it's hard to believe that an artist has reached million seller status through international sales without any kind of consumption on international platforms
Some acts do reach million seller status with domestic fanbase alone tho. International platforms aren't a requirement for that.
I don’t think anyone questions if the sales are fake per say but I think it’s fair to wonder who is buying the albums if the streaming numbers aren’t matching anywhere or how dedicated or inflated the sales if you don’t see corresponding streams.
The answer is pretty simple : this is the streaming era so people will wonder where the streams are.
I think there's a difference between arguing if sales are inflated due to many reasons (versions, price, distribution, etc) and directly saying a company is faking sales for mediaplay and all these million copies are not sold. The later is what I'm adressing with this thread.
I don't think my faves have 1+ million fans in korea buying their albums. Most of the fanbase there is probably buying more than 5 copies each and why it happens is another topic. What I don't agree with is people denying the existence of these fans and the albums they bought.
BTW i want to say once touring stars I think people start talking less about these numbers Kekekek. Just wait till then OP
It has already started for some groups and the talk continues.
127 has a sold out dome tour and two dates at Tokyo dome yet their physical sales still get dragged, I don't think it will change much tbh
I mean those are the biggest streaming services on the planet making up for the most % of on demand users, ofc they are the most relevant (youtube also). Melon and all the korean charts have very little amount of users in comparison.
Not that I'm saying low streams always means fake sales but it really makes you wonder and just shows sales are inflated to no end in kpop
but it's possible to have a mainly korean fanbase and sell millions just like the LYW case, and these groups aren't like the trot singers, they also have a fair amount of fans in the countries that consume albums the most. I think a big domestic fanbase + supportive i-fanbase does explain their million sellers without the need to match the Spotify streams
Display Moretbh the fanbase isn’t “massive” but just comparatively bigger than other BGs. If you have a large enough Korean fanbase you should be able to comfortably chart for multiple months (5-6 months or more) on the Gaon digital chart. (I’m not talking about charting #1, but just in general)
Even NCT or 17 who are better than all the other BGs still don’t really have notable Korean impact the gap with their GG counterparts is just enormous. Where as if you see the 4th gen GG Vs BG Spotify say txt or SKZ Vs itzy and ive… it feels more level. At least much more level than Korean charting.
Spotify or international platforms is a much better level playing field so when BGs lack there it’s much more prominent.
But I mean I agree it’s not more important than Korean charting but I can understand why people neglect Korean charting in general for BGs.
I don't think they are at the massive level bgs like Wanna one or exo were back then, where it managed to get the on top of digital charts, but I think it's big enough to show how they can sell around 1M on first week and more later without there being any doubt of the legitimacy of their sales.
That's my point.
Summary for ppl who don't read: why are physical sales of million sellers doubted just because they didn't get high streaming numbers on international platforms when it's proved a massive kfanbase can get you numbers as high as 1m+ of sales and there's also a big fanbase on countries like Japan and chinese supporting them?
By international kpop fans.
It seems like the new drag for many kpop groups but I just don't see why is a chart where you can't make any big amount of money held in such a high regard?
Don't get me wrong, I don't use it but I know tons of ppl do and it's kinda cool to see artist breaking records there and it does give an accurate representation of what's trendy rn.
But I do have a problem when it's used as argument to imply a group or company (you all know which one) is faking sales and mediAplaYinG.
According to some ppl, if you have low (in comparison to other acts) Spotify streams that means you can't be a real million seller or be anything else than a fraud product of mediaplay and chinese bots.
You can't grow a fandom without Spotify or Apple music they say.
All other metrics don't matter.
Recently nct dream got some comments like that because glimo did worse than hot sauce on international streaming charts. So that must mean they are SM frauds. Nothing else matters?
But at the same time they are performing at sold out venues full of their fans, debuted for first time in bb200, sold their best numbers ever on oricon, performed in Germany where they were the act w most fans, surpassed hot sauce longevity on korean charts, got a couple of international cfs, grow their engagement on social media by a lot, etc. All of that shows how big their fanbase became since last year and there isn't even that much difference in physical sales (both HS and GM sit with around 2.1M copies sold) but people are still speculating they faked sales because streaming didn't went as well?
Yeah it must mean they lost casuals and ifans don't stream that much but how can that erase everything else where they grew? A fandom that can get a solo statiton and an OST to chart like this on first hour isn't big?
Why isn't their massive and growing korean fanbase taken into account when it comes to their physical count?
Other bgs can't chart for a single day on melon daily but sell millions, that's fine bc they got a international fandom that streams. Dream can chart for around 2 months on melon daily and get 1M ULs and they sell millions but that's bad because the Spotify streams weren't big? I don't get that logic, considering kfans have the easiest access to albums and they are one of the biggest buyers,so having a massive kfanbase easily explains why you can sell tons of albums while not doing as well on international streams.
Like LYW didn't manage to sell more than a million albums thanks only to korean people... Do his low Spotify streams mean he's faking sale too?
This was meant to be a response thread to anons but I think it fits better in this section since it isn't only anons thinking like that and I would live to see other opinions. I don't think this controversy has any other explanation but if you are part of the conspiracy you are free to share your opinion.
And this isn't only about a group. The same applies not only to dream but all other groups facing the same accusations.
Around 45k audience and almost all of them were nctzens. Guess Lee Soo Man paid a lot of people to act like fans 
Justforfun,in case mnet got big budget and contacted Seventeen, winner, exo or bts solo/unit members and old legends + nct, my ideal line up would include most of the members mentioned: shotaro and sungchan because they need to do something, jungwoo, haechan and xiaojun as vocalists, jeno and yangyang as rappers and maybe 1 or 2 new members.
people overstimate their faves. they think they know better than companies and unless it's something crazy like txt performing on very small venues or g-idle 1k capacity, I don't get why they think their faves could easily sold out a 10k+ venue. i'm pretty sure the companies and the agency organizing the shows know how much demand there is and calculate the venue capacity based on that expectation
There's no reason to count them together, they report sales of individual albums, the cumulative sales of groups are released in company reports and are relevant for some award shows
Anything their faves lack is irrelevant and fake.
Korean charts, YouTube views, cbar sales, total album sales, etc are
Congrats to the dream members and their fans, it's been a hard cycle of promos for them but they did great with their support.
1.5m copies sold for a repackage is crazy, imagine if they had more time between releases...
Can't wait to see what's next for then
I don't think i have seen any active idol that does not care about fans, I follow updates for many and all of them are very attentive towards fans: releasing content, doing lives, chatting on apps, even visiting fan cafes etc. Some of them like karina make their own thing, like creating her monday fairy nickname, dropping bubbles each monday with tons of content
My nct bias are also very caring w fans especially doyoung who makes it his job to talk daily with fans, give special gifts like covers and lives concert from time to time, etc
