My thoughts on kpop relevance and some more things *it's a little messed...*

Quote from icyruios

So many of my faves in this 1 post

Taste!

for real though, i have always felt like the biggest difference between 2nd generation and 3rd generation was that back then the scene was very diversified and balanced. there was no single group or company or group of companies that absolutely dominated everything and left everyone in the dust. even if one group does so much better than everyone else, there would still be a bunch of popular groups that were striving and releasing hit songs and winning weekly trophies and awards.

nowadays, that balance disappeared, it truely became the game of big companies.

Quote from icyruios

Just look at the GG scene (since I'm more familiar with the GG scene)

2nd Gen we have Big 3 obviously, with SNSD/2NE1/Wonder Girls, followed by miss A and f(x)

Outside of that, we have Kara/Sistar. Sistar our digital queens who at some years, could possibly be on par with the top acts, even won Best Female Group MAMA twice in 2012/2014 while fighting against SNSD/2NE!. Kara, who has a huge market in Japan. T-ara as well who were on their way to be maybe even more popular than SNSD but scandal happened.

Not only that, we have other acts who never made it to top tier (like top 5/6 ish), but are popular enough to be remembered. Acts like Apink/AOA/Girls Day/EXID/4Minute/BEG. Even groups like After School/Secret did have some sort of success despite their trash ass companies.

Lets see what we have for 3rd Gen. Big 3 + Mamamoo + Gfriend + Oh My Girl (late bloomer). That's it. Not sure where to put Brave Girls in fact we might even put them in 2nd Gen since they kinda started there. After those groups, probably the next ones are WJSN/Dreamcatcher and then Lovelyz, but they are no way on par with the popularity of the other groups I mentioned in 2nd Gen despite having more physical sales which generally has increased across the entire industry.

For me, it's more because of how KPOP was new back then, and everyone was open to finding out new groups. There isn't as much of a "I stan this group and everyone of your faves suck and do not achieve as much as my faves" mentality. Yes fanwars exist, but it was childish fanwars.

Fanwars now is more of like "my faves outsell you/my faves outchart you"

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LMFAO not that gif

Quote from didi2802

Forgive me if I'm wrong, I'm a K-pop fan since 2019, so I'm not familiar with older acts. However, I kept hearing people talk many times about digitals and how good non-Big 3 groups were before. Or even if they weren't dominating digitally, they still managed to survive the industry.

Groups like : T-ARA, SISTAR, Infinite, BTOB, APINK, EXID, BLOCK B, CNBLUE, F.T. ISLAND (these 2 are K-bands) etc.

Quote from chounim

this is not true at all. there were many more non big3 artists that used to have hit songs and could even be considered digimons 10 to 5 years ago than there are now

T-ara

Sistar / Sistar19 / Soyou

KARA

4minute / Hyuna

A Pink

AOA

Girl's Day

Davichi

BEG / Gain

After School / Orange Caramel

Secret

Rainbow

CN Blue

FT Island

Beast / Highlight

Infinite

Bloc B

not to mention soloists and indie acts

most of these were very prominent names in the kpop industry and fan communities and many of these groups members built individual careers and names for themselves. it seemed like many artists could thrive and succeed regardless of their origin and even compete with big company groups and defeat them in certain aspects.

nowadaysn oversaturation made it more difficult for groups that don't have leverage or company privilege to make a name for themselves. it is even bleeding into groups that do have company leverage.

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Thanks for the input you guys! Tbh I was thinking of early third gen (since I was more familiar with that and the post that I commented talked about current situation). Sounds like 2nd gen is a really exciting time to be a kpop fan.

Quote from monalisalove

Oh, neverJin (I'm joking here kkkk) search about some 2nd gen groups and you will find diversity, quality and great groups!

From what I’ve found, I love Sistar (thanks icy for the recs), 2ne1, 4minute (love their Pussycat dolls vibe), BEG (vocals!!) and Glam (just because of Zinni. Check her out)

I kind of agree with what you said. After 2018, at least for me, it wasn't as "fun" anymore.

The thing about bigger artists getting bigger and smaller artists can't rise is actually very true for me. Since the digital platforms moved into a more UL-based thingy, as well as not promoting new releases *cough* Melon *cough* it is definitely a disadvantage for smaller groups. They might have made amazing songs and no one knows about them.

BLACKPINK, BTS keeps getting bigger internationally. TWICE, EXO, Red Velvet doing pretty stable and are also growing. 4th gen groups are rising, but only noticeable ones. We haven't seen a lot of "fun" lately. Everything is related to achievements, fanwars and toxicity. It is the time when bigger groups get their fans to stream and it's all about achievements, while the quality is barely mentioned.

Quote from nevermindmejin

Thanks for the input you guys! Tbh I was thinking of early third gen (since I was more familiar with that and the post that I commented talked about current situation). Sounds like 2nd gen is a really exciting time to be a kpop fan.

In my opinion, each era has its positive and negative qualities. 2nd generation's best quality was the diversity, there were many groups striving and doing well despite the size of their respective companies, but there was also much more diversity in sound, concept and style than there's now. These two qualities were most definitely related, there was something for all tastes and preferences, there was uniqueness and that's why many groups and artists could carve their own niche market. But in contrast, kpop nowadays is much more clean-cut, friendly and visually appealing, and it offers so much exposure which in itself gives groups opportunity to carve their own markets, the only problem is oversaturation and relying on trends are killing diversity and uniqueness and that's why there are less and less groups from small companies striving.

Quote from chounim

In my opinion, each era has its positive and negative qualities. 2nd generation's best quality was the diversity, there were many groups striving and doing well despite the size of their respective companies, but there was also much more diversity in sound, concept and style than there's now. These two qualities were most definitely related, there was something for all tastes and preferences, there was uniqueness and that's why many groups and artists could carve their own niche market. But in contrast, kpop nowadays is much more clean-cut, friendly and visually appealing, and it offers so much exposure which in itself gives groups opportunity to carve their own markets, the only problem is oversaturation and relying on trends are killing diversity and uniqueness and that's why there are less and less groups from small companies striving.

Fair point

But then maybe kpop has been around for so long and groups have tried so many concepts and sounds that whatever the new groups now do, they will not be as fresh and unique as the earlier gen? Just throwing it out there..

in short 2nd gen era was better

Quote from quark12395

This is true. I was on tumblr during it's early-mid 2010s heyday and while I wasn't a kpop fan, I followed many who were. All of them were multis. People literally created whole layout pages to show off their bias lists. At some point it shifted to where if you're not a group akgae then you're not a "true" kpop fan.

I find this new phenomenon baffling and kinda sad. There is less diversity than before but still so many great acts and music yet people restrict themselves into fandoms and purposefully refuse to listen to other artists because it makes them "less of a fan" with "multi" now being seen as a derogatory word.

V.strange.

Quote from nevermindmejin

Fair point

But then maybe kpop has been around for so long and groups have tried so many concepts and sounds that whatever the new groups now do, they will not be as fresh and unique as the earlier gen? Just throwing it out there..

When I say unique, I don't necessarily mean new or never done before, but just different from others around them. Now since there are way too many groups, and many of them are just following trends and copying what the most successful ones are doing, it seems like most newer groups don't bring anything new to the table, so kpop in general became redundant. I think that's one of the reasons why the general public keeps losing interest in kpop groups.

For example when you look at popular boy groups in the 2nd generation, no one would mistake groups like Super Junior, TVXQ, SHINee, 2PM, 2AM, Big Bang, SS501, Infinite etc for one another and think they sound or look like each other, they each had their own unique sound that worked for them. But now I personally can't name many groups for whom I feel the same way. Except for very few exceptions, it feels like most new groups are just trying to recreate and copy the sound and image of the popular/successful groups. Even if you look at the top boy groups right now (BTS, NCT, SVT) they're different from each other, they have their own flavors that are unique to them and that most definitely is one of the reasons why they're at the top, if for example NCT was a copy of BTS then why would anyone stan them instead of the original? It's because they're not a copy and they offer something different. As long as newer groups keep copying the popular ones, it will be very difficult for them to make it so far. This is also why TXT is the most successful new boy group in recent years, they brought something new to the table.

Quote from icyruios

Anyways, 1 big thing that changed, is the availability of data. Last time you don't have what twitter charts literally stalking the every single minute achievement of groups, or people everyday trying to calculate what ULs?

It was more of getting into the KPOP because it was something new, something different from your regular music. And yes if your faves win music shows or top the charts then YAYYY. People were more open to listen to more variety of groups because KPOP was a new scene and everyone want to listen to a variety of groups.

It's why there are many groups that are popular back then. It isn't just Big 3. We have Sistar/T-ara/Kara/4Minute/AOA/Apink/BEG/Girl's Day/EXID, even groups like Secret/After School. BG we have BEAST/CN Blue/FT Island/U Kiss/MBlaq/Infinite.

Now what groups do you know? It's more like "lets check out who is topping the charts now and I shall listen to this group because it's literally the only group I know".

Everyday it's about stalking achievements. Achievements back then was used to celebrate what great stuff different groups achieved. Nowadays achievements are now just a tool weaponised by fans, to make fans of other groups feel inferior.

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This is exactly what I was going to say. Literally spot on.

Quote from nevermindmejin

I feel the opposite.. before, the acts that dominate the charts mostly came from the Big three. Now, we have OMG and Brave Girl dominating the charts, which was so rare before (non big 3 idols). And they are not one hit wonders too.

And Koreans have always look down on idol groups, you probably only realised it now lol

There are other idol group that took Korea by storm this year (hint 2nd gen), not just aespa’s

I know Korea has always looked down on kpop acts lol. That doesn't mean they don't pay attention to them. Interest in K-pop with the Korean GP has decreased over the years c:

Also, I would disagree with your first point. There are a lot less groups from smaller companies who are becoming popular. But I can see where you're coming from. Just a few years ago, there were multiple companies who were not Big3 (Big 4 now maybe?) level but were famous enough to be noticed for the groups they put out - this isn't really true anymore. Their groups that debuted 2nd/3rd gen are what is keeping them afloat and their newer groups are not getting the same level of success. There are probably rare exceptions.