RE: IVE would be a flop without wonyoung

The songs themselves would hard carry any group tbh, they're that well-written. But having an It girl brings you lots more popularity and some longevity too

they would be nugu without wonyoung

I mean Wonyoung could've joined the group and gone down the Suzy route

The fact that the IVE is popular and not just Wonyoung speaks volumes imo. They still would've been at LEAST upper mid-tier without her

The way Korea works, having an it-girl and another popular member doesn't equate to three hits in a row

I doubt that they would be a flop without her

Quote from selfmate

really? that is a very interesting perspective...

why do you say that?

do you think that any nugu or lesser known group would have done just as well as IVE did with say Love Dive?

Yeah, I genuinely think any group going from Eleven to Love Dive in a row would get quite a lot of GP attention, they're just that catchy. Maybe not Melon #1's, but at least some music show wins and decent digitals

but to clarify, it would probably NOT do exactly as well as IVE did (the WY factor)

Quote from KpopJop

Yeah, I genuinely think any group going from Eleven to Love Dive in a row would get quite a lot of GP attention, they're just that catchy. Maybe not Melon #1's, but at least some music show wins and decent digitals

but to clarify, it would probably NOT do exactly as well as IVE did (the WY factor)

Let's be honest, if IVE didn't have the izone members, eleven and other songs wouldn't have gotten GP attention. Lots of catchy songs never make it to the GP's attention.

It could go either way. But ive most probably wouldn't be as big as they are atm.

Also just like wonyoung is helping the group so is ive helping her popularity. Her popularity has grown way faster since eleven than before. Mind you she was always a popular girl but her popularity exploded after eleven.

They are know bc of her(an yj to a lesser extent)

I don't think ifans understand how trendy she was before Ive was even announced, she was one of the few izone members that keep trending after they disbanded

People looked forward to Ive debut bc they have WY(and yj)

Quote from selfmate

interesting perspective...

what say you to the proposition that nugu/lesser known group singing 11/LD would be received less purely because the GP wouldn't pick up on such a song because of the group?

i'd say the proposition reflects reality

but i also think that the songs are strong enough that they'd make their way to public knowledge one way or another

Meaningless assertion. The same can be claimed of many idols and many groups.

It can also be claimed the WY would have fizzled without IVE.. after all many of Produce fame - either the groups failed or the solos aren't hitting big leagues either.

There is no way such things can be proved or disproved, hence pointless.

The anon might be some insecure rival fan, who wants some assurance by making such claims.

Quote from selfmate

interesting I understand your perspective...

and would you say the opposite is true that songs that don't make their way to public knowledge just aren't that strong (ie. not good or not good enough) (this is more of a general statement rather than ive specific)

nah, there exist strong songs that have no GP appeal

edit: this was apparently my 1000th post congrats

as wonyoung Stan

I think The sales will not being stable since wonyoung fanbase contributed 60% in sales china for after like also without wonyoung this is hard they need one most popular 4gen female idol(this is wonyoung)but they will not become mega popular if wonyoung wasn't here

All the 6 members re well known together but kpop stans trying dont care about others members

yujin did better than chaewon in individuels sales in china*hybe privilege is non existant when chaewon was underrated members in izone..yujin is known members tho.

I remember the wizones wish boycotted ive debut but luck ive eleven is hit

I remember the kpop stans know ive with oversatured favorism thing when all the members get solo schedules .

Wonyoung and Yujin helped bring the group initial attention but starship has played the rest quite well to the point where their current popularity isn't just wonyoung

Quote from bbgc

Meaningless assertion. The same can be claimed of many idols and many groups.

It can also be claimed the WY would have fizzled without IVE.. after all many of Produce fame - either the groups failed or the solos aren't hitting big leagues either.

There is no way such things can be proved or disproved, hence pointless.

The anon might be some insecure rival fan, who wants some assurance by making such claims.

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this is why I avoid trying to argue with hard data about something as immaterial as music

just pick a fave and assert dominance

Quote from 0ppar

Let's be honest, if IVE didn't have the izone members, eleven and other songs wouldn't have gotten GP attention. Lots of catchy songs never make it to the GP's attention.

Sistar was the first Starship group and had 9 consecutive #1s on MelOn without an it girl and fandom, it's more than possible IVE would do well without WY though WY helped. If Wonyoung wasnt in the group, yall would say its thanks to Yujin etc.

Quote from catzi

Sistar was the first Starship group and had 9 consecutive #1s on MelOn without an it girl and fandom, it's more than possible IVE would do well without WY though WY helped. If Wonyoung wasnt in the group, yall would say its thanks to Yujin etc.

agreed, people forget about how solid the Sistar songs were. True GP queens of summer

That’s true in a way. But would WY be THAT successful without IVE? She wasn’t that huge during Izone, and Izone was still less popular than IVE.

I can name a lot of idols who are so much huge and their groups are still nugu. So this drag is funny to me.

They would be like StayC with out her.

Quote from catzi

Sistar was the first Starship group and had 9 consecutive #1s on MelOn without an it girl and fandom, it's more than possible IVE would do well without WY though WY helped. If Wonyoung wasnt in the group, yall would say its thanks to Yujin etc.

Sistar had the vocal powerhouse hyolyn

Quote from killthisfenty

That’s true in a way. But would WY be THAT successful without IVE? She wasn’t that huge during Izone, and Izone was still less popular than IVE.

I can name a lot of idols who are so much huge and their groups are still nugu. So this drag is funny to me.

Wonyoung was always popular in izone esp korea and china .

Her popularity have grow up much since ive cause ive songs have international appealing sounds

She was always trending in izone.

well...I can't disagree with this lol

I think they would be at the same level of Wjsn, maybe a bit more popular because of Yujin even if her popularity can't match Wonyoung

Quote from vivaliberta

Wonyoung was always popular in izone esp korea and china .

Her popularity have grow up much since ive cause ive songs have international appealing sounds

She was always trending in izone.

Yup she definitely was popular before. She was already getting innisfree cfs and chaumet sponsorships even before ive. Also I guess she was already doing miu miu too before ive.

But she has just become way bigger since ive debut.

Quote from killthisfenty

That’s true in a way. But would WY be THAT successful without IVE? She wasn’t that huge during Izone, and Izone was still less popular than IVE.

I can name a lot of idols who are so much huge and their groups are still nugu. So this drag is funny to me.

People really forget that Wonyoung gained +3m followers since her debut in IVE

Quote from Bpsosoro

I beg Kpop stop acting like having WY and YJ is some big 4 privilege. They couldn’t carry Ive this far with name only, people like the whole group.

If Suzy that come from big3 and is the most legendary it girl couldnt its crazy that kpop stans think WY and YJ could

if one single popular girl would bring this popularity, Gugudan wouldn't flopped this much

There is a lot of things which contributed to IVE's popularity, between them is Wonyoung too but is not the only thing, the group could had flopped with her in too (like i said see Gugudan) but the biggest contribution is their music, without it they would surely wouldn't done as good, even if wonyoung was in the group

edit: i think starship played their cards well too, their promotion was top notch

Quote from bbgc

after all many of Produce fame - either the groups failed or the solos aren't hitting big leagues either.

Pre IZ*ONE pretty much everything Produce related except for Chungha flopped. Chungha is considered a success but her sales have declined over the last few years. Her last release sold about 10k.

Now consider that the 'least' successful IZ*ONE solo has 120k sales in the first year. Even the least successful one is comfortably a top tier female soloist, easily the most successful act Woollim currently has. Yena has 250k sales so far in 2022. She's basically one step below Taeyeon and IU. So while I agree with your main point, the IZ*ONE name obviously carries a different kind of power just based on how the soloists are doing. I would never compare them to previous produce groups.

Quote from SunnySun

if one single popular girl would bring this popularity, Gugudan wouldn't flopped this much

This is probably the perfect argument to disprove it, Sejeong was HUGE at the time. Could easily be called an IT girl. IOI also received a lot of attention during their short promotion time. Still, Gugudan flopped extremely hard with 2 IOI members.

Need to give Starship some credit, everything regarding IVE has been done well.

Quote from trollacc

Pre IZ*ONE pretty much everything Produce related except for Chungha flopped. Chungha is considered a success but her sales have declined over the last few years. Her last release sold about 10k.

Now consider that the 'least' successful IZ*ONE solo has 120k sales in the first year. Even the least successful one is comfortably a top tier female soloist, easily the most successful act Woollim currently has. Yena has 250k sales so far in 2022. She's basically one step below Taeyeon and IU. So while I agree with your main point, the IZ*ONE name obviously carries a different kind of power just based on how the soloists are doing. I would never compare them to previous produce groups.

The obvious response to this comparison with is IOI was given less than an year as group, could build no fandom nothing, whereas Izone was given 2.5 years..

Physical sales simply is fandom, therefore ex-Izone Solo physical sales are hardly the reflection of their true popularity. How are they doing in digital charts - that is it the true test of being top tier - for anybody GG, BG or Solos.

Yena.. I don't know if she is just one step below.. but if she is.. then that step is a giant step.

Physicals sales are fine for profits, not for impact.

Sejeong, Somi and Chungha have had very successful careers over the past 6 years, of course they have had highs and lows.. their lows alone can't be compared with the short careers of the Izone soloists.

So in that sense none of this is comparable.

They would have been successful, but not as successful without her

A flop is a reach, cause starship is pretty well known company that would have pushed ive on varieties here and there, would they be this big no I don't think so , but even with WY in IVE if their songs did not appeal they wouldn't have had 2 huge hits back to back. Starship played their cards right with this group

Also I hate the "if" questions. like what do you gain from asking these, it is not a downplay to IVE at all

An previously famous IT girl while very beneficial, is not an absolute necessity for success.

From Starships' own Sistar to recent NewJeans, many groups have debuted with no existing famed member and achieved fantastic success.

The opposite case also exist, the immense fame of Suzy can be cited as the reason for the eventual failure of Miss A, the popularity of Sejeong is cited as the reason gugudan failed.

Nobody knows the dynamics of such things,

groups succeed without a famous member

groups fail with a famous member

Of course - fail without a famous member and succeed with a famous member

Quote from bbgc

The obvious response to this comparison with is IOI was given less than an year as group, could build no fandom nothing, whereas Izone was given 2.5 years..

Physical sales simply is fandom, therefore ex-Izone Solo physical sales are hardly the reflection of their true popularity. How are they doing in digital charts - that is it the true test of being top tier - for anybody GG, BG or Solos.

Yena.. I don't know if she is just one step below.. but if she is.. then that step is a giant step.

Physicals sales are fine for profits, not for impact.

Sejeong, Somi and Chungha have had very successful careers over the past 6 years, of course they have had highs and lows.. their lows alone can't be compared with the short careers of the Izone soloists.

So in that sense none of this is comparable.

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You make sense and I cannot refute anything. I couldn't see clearly through my WIZ*ONE goggles. Thank you for the high effort post, user.

Smiley did chart very well (#21 on Circle annual atm) but it does seem like it was a one off, her 2nd release failed to chart anywhere near that level. It is a huge wall separating IU and Taeyeon from the rest if you consider they do this with every single release.

Quote from trollacc

You make sense and I cannot refute anything. I couldn't see clearly through my WIZ*ONE goggles. Thank you for the high effort post, user.

Smiley did chart very well (#21 on Circle annual atm) but it does seem like it was a one off, her 2nd release failed to chart anywhere near that level. It is a huge wall separating IU and Taeyeon from the rest if you consider they do this with every single release.

It is ok.

You should join BlackpinkHouse who also uses physical sales to project fantastic performance by ex-Izones.. but I think physicals are entirely driven by fandoms.. good for profits etc., but they are siloes and true popularity is to transcend fandoms.. which is better reflected by digital charts and ULs.

I have nothing for or against Izone.. hopefully they will do increasingly better.

Izone has a very solid and loyal fanbase. But without hits the soloist at one certain point will become stagnant or even have downfall in sales as their music is not reaching a bigger audience.

Now ive and lsf are reaching a bigger audience and gaining more fans.

No izone solo has anywhere near the popularity of chungha had during 2019.