Posts by bbgc

    I don't think we were aware that you hadn't seen the MV which is very clear about it and I think that is where most were coming from cause honestly, after the MV, you'd kinda have to be blind not to see it. But now I realize that it makes more sense that you hadn't seen it, saying what you did.

    Either way, this doesn't need to get heated. I think we all felt attacked and we didn't need to let it get to that.

    Unfortunately lot of discussions here, and regd BTS is always dealt in attack-counter attack mode.

    In this thread I had replied that MV, Choreo, sets are less relevant to the longevity of message, than music and most importantly lyrics.

    Lennon's Imagine or the Indian song lyrics stand valid even after decades for the 'universality' of their message and the culture they represent.

    In that sense I still think BTS has better songs than PTD in Korean and of lyrical depth.

    Still if they were specifically requested for a Pandemic specific performance, then I guess it would be PTD.

    Anyway it is already done. Hopefully they may have other chances to showcase at such levels in future.

    When you are criticizing them for it, of course that deserves response. And if you watched the MV, it was clear the song was about overcoming the pandemic. This is NOT an opinion. There were people taking off masks in it and well as a newspaper that point black talked about the pandemic and also this:


    Those are the letter scrambled. It is very clear it is about the pandemic. Perhaps you are the one jumping to your interpretation without a bit of research? Consider that.

    I wasn't aware of the scramble.. Thanks.

    Nice one.

    My response was to the other user who jumped to accuse me of 'bad faith'. Instead of simply giving me such info.

    If ignorance of such clues, is enough to cause ARMY to allege bad faith, then such behavior would make for ArrogantRMY than AdorableRMY.

    What? You really can't see the themes of spreading positivity and overcoming the pandemic in PTD? At that point that's not an opinion, it's just bad faith.

    PTD is not about rebellion at all. It seems like you just read the title of the song and formed your opinion of the lyrics on it.

    Art is subject to interpretation, if some one does not interpret the same way as you do, they don't become an actor of bad faith.

    It is this sort of jumping to conclusions that taints ARMY's reputation.

    But still to answer - positivity, yes in general.

    Pandemic - I don't see any specific content.

    Again subjective takes.

    But guess some can't handle any opinion about the subject.

    I will stop.

    Well it is subjective.

    As motivational pep talk.. sure.

    But ONLY my opinion and based on preceding performances in UN - perhaps greater themes of humanity/universalism would be apt - like Spring Day and its Omelas reference.

    Anyway, these are subjective opinions, it is fine if you think it is fine. They have made their choice and done.

    The main resonance of this year event was Youth, Generation, overcoming the pandemic, Climate change, spreading positivity, upliftment of humanity.

    Permission to dance precisely covered all these topic with lyrics, choreo, theme, sets.

    Of course, BTS won't perform Blood, sweat & tears or Fake Love or Boy with luv or Black Swan.

    Or I am missing something though? :whatb:

    Or I might be missing something, I could not read those themes "Youth, Generation, overcoming the pandemic, Climate change, spreading positivity, upliftment of humanity." in the lyrics of PTD.

    Unless Youth is equated with rebellion and not needing permissions.

    Choreo/theme/sets will not survive for posterity as much as lyrics and music. And lyrics alone will carry any messages.

    Edit: Also another reason is PTD is English, even outside the debates around Kpop groups doing English, UN as a specific case was an opportunity to represent S.Korea/Korean.

    Still minor cribs, massive recognition.

    Congratulations to BTS.

    I only wish that they had performed some of their more meaningful songs than PTD. Really does not suit the occasion or the forum.

    Shakira performed Lennon's 'Imagine' - talks about a world without borders, about peace, without greed etc.

    Indian legend MSS performed Sanskrit "Maitreem Bajatha' - foster friendship, reject war, restraint and compassion etc.

    Beyonce 'I was here' - life, love, leaving a mark

    Compared to such, PTD does not seem the best choice, from even BTSs own body of work.

    But anyway, it is done.

    And two months from now, will put new releases eligible for the next award season, rather than compete with Lilac songs.

    To correct myself,

    IU seems to have never cared much about award-eligibility periods, best timing so that song can hit #1 etc.

    She is more interested in the sentimental value - important dates to herself/Uaenas. Or the suitability of the song.

    Best example is 'Autumn Morning', released with nearly no promotion, Monday early morning - outside chart ranking times and that too when BTS had announced a release - all bad commercial considerations,

    but she still dropped it because it was her debut anniversary, the song was about morning, the season was autumn.


    IU is probably the closest exception to the rule tbh. Her digital run is insane.

    Maybe she should be assessed by her own standards. But even so, since kpop market has been continuously expanding, her every subsequent release would have outsold the previous, just by that expansion.

    I am not sure about this, but perhaps Chat-shire underperformed by her own standards?

    But since 2017.. She has been unstoppable.

    Dream schedule got postponed to 2022, so I am hoping for something substantial, and as others mention,

    A Flower Bookmark 3.

    But she is sitting on bunch of unreleased works, like her own songs which she excluded from Lilac.

    And two months from now, will put new releases eligible for the next award season, rather than compete with Lilac songs.

    So ok

    Hamasaki Ayumi is indeed an apt singer to compare IU with.

    And that is not just on this "earnings" criteria. But on other more pertinent factors, like

    #1. Immense success because of lyrical-emotional depth, than vocal abilities or dance/performance skills

    #2. High degree of creative control over their works.

    #3. Childhood with grandmothers, than typical 2 parent household

    As to earnings, I am betting that IU owns some percentage of Kakao M, whose IPO valuation is 18 billion USD. Even if it is 0.1%, that would be 18 million USD.

    But it is not ok to judge singers by such things. The only earnings that matter are album sales and royalties.

    Things like real estate, stock ownership, advertisements, acting etc. even if they bring in more wealth, are not the primary aspect they are known for or their skill.

    Kpop is about emotional investment.

    And competition shows, people are invested in individual competitors. It never was going to translate well, putting those individual favorites in a temp group, or to expect that fame to carry when they are put in other groups.

    Emotional investment can't be reconfigured that easily.

    Chugha being the most successful, was because she avoided that and continued solo after I.O.I.

    Somi and Itzy are better off without each other, but Somi got some time wasted, but still has great prospects.

    Sejeong and others, had to waste precious time in groups - where their Produce success was often counter-productive than useful. Jellyfish should have pitched only SeMiNa and kept others as a separate group.

    Kang Mina seems completely out of singing, while Sejeong seems to have the 'all-rounder's' jinx - decently successful in multiple fields, but the massive break-out always elusive.

    Kang Daniel was smart to break out and go solo.

    It does not matter how large the lineup are. The dynamic would still impact them.

    There are three ways to answer this,

    Subjective - personal preference - Mine there are many -IU, Kwon Jin-ah, Wendy, Sejeong

    Statistical - chart performance - IU leads by a large gap, in contemporary times, when it comes to Kpop and Korea.

    Skill/technique - Well I am not an expert to judge this. but if competitions like Mask Singers can used - blind test, then Solji of EXID, Sohyang, Son Seung-yeon, have proved their abilities.

    can you not have this conversation on this thread? the main reason I made this thread is to ask a question and get an answer, not have people fight whoever I tagged no matter the reason. this'll make people not want to answer. go dm WhyKnock instead

    Sure, I will stop here.

    But if you had questions for specific users and not want a conversation, then you could have dm them directly, right?

    Taken your own advice?

    Public posts can't be expected to be your private space.

    Still I won't continue. Have fun.

    Answering this question accurately will take a book.

    In short I think she significantly hindered the rise of Kpop around the world by making her style of sleep ballads hot once again, and by making all the singers having to watch their back.

    I would read the book, just for the historical comparisons you make :)

    But here is my simple riposte to the premise,

    #1. Do you have any quantitative metric to prove that Kpop's rise has been hindered?

    #2. Even if you have, do you have evidence that IU was a factor and then a factor significant enough to hinder?

    #3. Finally even if all the above is true "SO WHAT?"

    Nobody including IU is under any obligation to a 'vague' entity such as K-pop industry, and even more vague 'rise', to give up on their own talents, interests and success. Neither are the listening audience of Korea or elsewhere, subject their tastes to some imagined requirements.

    You 'speculation' is purely an intellectual or rather fictional exercise - like that of conspiracy theorists. It is fun reading it most times, but sometimes distasteful.

    Otherwise 'meh'.

    3 measurable factors and 1 non-measurable.

    1. Visual

    2. Dancing

    3. Vocal


    4. Screen presence/charisma/personality/story

    If the have the 4th, then for the first three, they need to be just above average - then training, plastic surgery, make up, costumes, camera angles, auto tunes and lip synch will take care of the rest.

    Between the three- Visual/Vocal/Dancing - the importance keeps fluctuating as the tastes change, as the markets change.

    Currently yes, it does seem that Visual is the most important, then dancing ability and finally vocals.

    If they have bad vocal ability, can't hold a pitch at all - then they can't make the cut.

    But they need not be exceptionally good either.

    Kpop is not about 'art', it is about 'popularity' - art is incidental.

    Hence 'idols' and not 'artists'

    Though fans would like to pretend that their fav is a great vocalist or dancer, because merely being a visual/idol, while entertaining, does not seem to feed the need for 'substance'

    There are innumerable better vocalists than kpop idols, outside kpop in korea itself.

    The background dancers of many Kpop groups, would be better dancers than the idols.

    The professional models/actresses often are better visually appealing than idols.

    But as a package - idols are in the spot between the three primary attributes and bring a distinct flavour to the entertainment business.

    Vocals become important for true soloists -i.e. those who don't rely on bunch of other features like dancing etc. e.g. Somi-Dumb Dumb. And matters far less for groups.

    Vocals are important for live solo singing, than MVs - but more consumption is via screens than stages, so again become unimportant.

    Given that majority of Kpop is groups, dance based, screen delivered, it is understandable that Vocals have gone down in significance.