RE: IVE would be a flop without wonyoung

  • I mean Wonyoung could've joined the group and gone down the Suzy route


    The fact that the IVE is popular and not just Wonyoung speaks volumes imo. They still would've been at LEAST upper mid-tier without her


    The way Korea works, having an it-girl and another popular member doesn't equate to three hits in a row

    out of service

  • The songs themselves would hard carry any group tbh, they're that well-written. But having an It girl brings you lots more popularity and some longevity too

    really? that is a very interesting perspective...

    why do you say that?

    do you think that any nugu or lesser known group would have done just as well as IVE did with say Love Dive?

  • really? that is a very interesting perspective...

    why do you say that?

    do you think that any nugu or lesser known group would have done just as well as IVE did with say Love Dive?

    Yeah, I genuinely think any group going from Eleven to Love Dive in a row would get quite a lot of GP attention, they're just that catchy. Maybe not Melon #1's, but at least some music show wins and decent digitals


    but to clarify, it would probably NOT do exactly as well as IVE did (the WY factor)

  • Yeah, I genuinely think any group going from Eleven to Love Dive in a row would get quite a lot of GP attention, they're just that catchy. Maybe not Melon #1's, but at least some music show wins and decent digitals


    but to clarify, it would probably NOT do exactly as well as IVE did (the WY factor)

    Let's be honest, if IVE didn't have the izone members, eleven and other songs wouldn't have gotten GP attention. Lots of catchy songs never make it to the GP's attention.

  • Yeah, I genuinely think any group going from Eleven to Love Dive in a row would get quite a lot of GP attention, they're just that catchy. Maybe not Melon #1's, but at least some music show wins and decent digitals


    but to clarify, it would probably NOT do exactly as well as IVE did (the WY factor)

    interesting perspective...

    what say you to the proposition that nugu/lesser known group singing 11/LD would be received less purely because the GP wouldn't pick up on such a song because of the group?

    what I mean is certain groups have the advantage of being "known" and thus people even non-fans will give that group's new music a shot because they are a known group

    and thus the opposite is also true...unknown groups are at a disadvantage because no one knows them and thus even if they have a good song the GP or us even as I-fans might not know of it simply because we don't even know the group exists or don't care about about said group to give it a listen?

  • It could go either way. But ive most probably wouldn't be as big as they are atm.

    Also just like wonyoung is helping the group so is ive helping her popularity. Her popularity has grown way faster since eleven than before. Mind you she was always a popular girl but her popularity exploded after eleven.

    °⨳°·..·°⨳°⊹٭ 𝓙𝓞𝓨 ٭⊹°⨳°·..·°⨳°

    e59e7135c19a6341cc1e93725017b2ba7130662a.gifv 6c1d54386949e369c7a401c21503a4af7b66a053.gifv 87421ed4a49499627715cb8666cc133529df9593.gifv 6c1d54386949e369c7a401c21503a4af7b66a053.gifv b2fee2c558a21bd6472498e040b6dad3a40db33e.gifv

  • They are know bc of her(an yj to a lesser extent)


    I don't think ifans understand how trendy she was before Ive was even announced, she was one of the few izone members that keep trending after they disbanded


    People looked forward to Ive debut bc they have WY(and yj)

  • interesting perspective...

    what say you to the proposition that nugu/lesser known group singing 11/LD would be received less purely because the GP wouldn't pick up on such a song because of the group?

    i'd say the proposition reflects reality

    but i also think that the songs are strong enough that they'd make their way to public knowledge one way or another

  • i'd say the proposition reflects reality

    but i also think that the songs are strong enough that they'd make their way to public knowledge one way or another

    interesting I understand your perspective...


    and would you say the opposite is true that songs that don't make their way to public knowledge just aren't that strong (ie. not good or not good enough) (this is more of a general statement rather than ive specific)

  • Meaningless assertion. The same can be claimed of many idols and many groups.


    It can also be claimed the WY would have fizzled without IVE.. after all many of Produce fame - either the groups failed or the solos aren't hitting big leagues either.


    There is no way such things can be proved or disproved, hence pointless.


    The anon might be some insecure rival fan, who wants some assurance by making such claims.

  • interesting I understand your perspective...


    and would you say the opposite is true that songs that don't make their way to public knowledge just aren't that strong (ie. not good or not good enough) (this is more of a general statement rather than ive specific)

    nah, there exist strong songs that have no GP appeal


    edit: this was apparently my 1000th post congrats

  • as wonyoung Stan


    I think The sales will not being stable since wonyoung fanbase contributed 60% in sales china for after like also without wonyoung this is hard they need one most popular 4gen female idol(this is wonyoung)but they will not become mega popular if wonyoung wasn't here


    All the 6 members re well known together but kpop stans trying dont care about others members


    yujin did better than chaewon in individuels sales in china*hybe privilege is non existant when chaewon was underrated members in izone..yujin is known members tho.


    I remember the wizones wish boycotted ive debut but luck ive eleven is hit




    I remember the kpop stans know ive with oversatured favorism thing when all the members get solo schedules .

  • this is why I avoid trying to argue with hard data about something as immaterial as music

    just pick a fave and assert dominance

  • Let's be honest, if IVE didn't have the izone members, eleven and other songs wouldn't have gotten GP attention. Lots of catchy songs never make it to the GP's attention.

    Sistar was the first Starship group and had 9 consecutive #1s on MelOn without an it girl and fandom, it's more than possible IVE would do well without WY though WY helped. If Wonyoung wasnt in the group, yall would say its thanks to Yujin etc.

    narcissistic, my god i love it

    JCsIq3Q.gif

  • Sistar was the first Starship group and had 9 consecutive #1s on MelOn without an it girl and fandom, it's more than possible IVE would do well without WY though WY helped. If Wonyoung wasnt in the group, yall would say its thanks to Yujin etc.

    agreed, people forget about how solid the Sistar songs were. True GP queens of summer

  • That’s true in a way. But would WY be THAT successful without IVE? She wasn’t that huge during Izone, and Izone was still less popular than IVE.

    I can name a lot of idols who are so much huge and their groups are still nugu. So this drag is funny to me.

    Wonyoung was always popular in izone esp korea and china .

    Her popularity have grow up much since ive cause ive songs have international appealing sounds

    She was always trending in izone.

  • Wonyoung was always popular in izone esp korea and china .

    Her popularity have grow up much since ive cause ive songs have international appealing sounds

    She was always trending in izone.

    Yup she definitely was popular before. She was already getting innisfree cfs and chaumet sponsorships even before ive. Also I guess she was already doing miu miu too before ive.

    But she has just become way bigger since ive debut.

    °⨳°·..·°⨳°⊹٭ 𝓙𝓞𝓨 ٭⊹°⨳°·..·°⨳°

    e59e7135c19a6341cc1e93725017b2ba7130662a.gifv 6c1d54386949e369c7a401c21503a4af7b66a053.gifv 87421ed4a49499627715cb8666cc133529df9593.gifv 6c1d54386949e369c7a401c21503a4af7b66a053.gifv b2fee2c558a21bd6472498e040b6dad3a40db33e.gifv

  • That’s true in a way. But would WY be THAT successful without IVE? She wasn’t that huge during Izone, and Izone was still less popular than IVE.

    I can name a lot of idols who are so much huge and their groups are still nugu. So this drag is funny to me.

    People really forget that Wonyoung gained +3m followers since her debut in IVE

    narcissistic, my god i love it

    JCsIq3Q.gif

  • if one single popular girl would bring this popularity, Gugudan wouldn't flopped this much


    There is a lot of things which contributed to IVE's popularity, between them is Wonyoung too but is not the only thing, the group could had flopped with her in too (like i said see Gugudan) but the biggest contribution is their music, without it they would surely wouldn't done as good, even if wonyoung was in the group


    edit: i think starship played their cards well too, their promotion was top notch

  • after all many of Produce fame - either the groups failed or the solos aren't hitting big leagues either.

    Pre IZ*ONE pretty much everything Produce related except for Chungha flopped. Chungha is considered a success but her sales have declined over the last few years. Her last release sold about 10k.


    Now consider that the 'least' successful IZ*ONE solo has 120k sales in the first year. Even the least successful one is comfortably a top tier female soloist, easily the most successful act Woollim currently has. Yena has 250k sales so far in 2022. She's basically one step below Taeyeon and IU. So while I agree with your main point, the IZ*ONE name obviously carries a different kind of power just based on how the soloists are doing. I would never compare them to previous produce groups.

  • if one single popular girl would bring this popularity, Gugudan wouldn't flopped this much

    This is probably the perfect argument to disprove it, Sejeong was HUGE at the time. Could easily be called an IT girl. IOI also received a lot of attention during their short promotion time. Still, Gugudan flopped extremely hard with 2 IOI members.


    Need to give Starship some credit, everything regarding IVE has been done well.

  • Pre IZ*ONE pretty much everything Produce related except for Chungha flopped. Chungha is considered a success but her sales have declined over the last few years. Her last release sold about 10k.


    Now consider that the 'least' successful IZ*ONE solo has 120k sales in the first year. Even the least successful one is comfortably a top tier female soloist, easily the most successful act Woollim currently has. Yena has 250k sales so far in 2022. She's basically one step below Taeyeon and IU. So while I agree with your main point, the IZ*ONE name obviously carries a different kind of power just based on how the soloists are doing. I would never compare them to previous produce groups.

    The obvious response to this comparison with is IOI was given less than an year as group, could build no fandom nothing, whereas Izone was given 2.5 years..


    Physical sales simply is fandom, therefore ex-Izone Solo physical sales are hardly the reflection of their true popularity. How are they doing in digital charts - that is it the true test of being top tier - for anybody GG, BG or Solos.


    Yena.. I don't know if she is just one step below.. but if she is.. then that step is a giant step.

    Physicals sales are fine for profits, not for impact.


    Sejeong, Somi and Chungha have had very successful careers over the past 6 years, of course they have had highs and lows.. their lows alone can't be compared with the short careers of the Izone soloists.


    So in that sense none of this is comparable.

  • A flop is a reach, cause starship is pretty well known company that would have pushed ive on varieties here and there, would they be this big no I don't think so , but even with WY in IVE if their songs did not appeal they wouldn't have had 2 huge hits back to back. Starship played their cards right with this group


    Also I hate the "if" questions. like what do you gain from asking these, it is not a downplay to IVE at all

    ★*★*★*★*★ Fearless, say yes, we don't dress to impress ★*★*★*★*★

    dbbc37ee9b34ecb400d4db7532da1d35482c7371.gifv 3923379cb0fbe44b64145967a41d9516e417f661.gifv 682caaf41fe5214856b2773b89e21a72d129a70d.gifv a5265df948bd48063ce07183be2c0b2db46f9bc7.gifv

  • An previously famous IT girl while very beneficial, is not an absolute necessity for success.


    From Starships' own Sistar to recent NewJeans, many groups have debuted with no existing famed member and achieved fantastic success.


    The opposite case also exist, the immense fame of Suzy can be cited as the reason for the eventual failure of Miss A, the popularity of Sejeong is cited as the reason gugudan failed.


    Nobody knows the dynamics of such things,

    groups succeed without a famous member

    groups fail with a famous member

    Of course - fail without a famous member and succeed with a famous member

  • You make sense and I cannot refute anything. I couldn't see clearly through my WIZ*ONE goggles. Thank you for the high effort post, user.


    Smiley did chart very well (#21 on Circle annual atm) but it does seem like it was a one off, her 2nd release failed to chart anywhere near that level. It is a huge wall separating IU and Taeyeon from the rest if you consider they do this with every single release.

  • You make sense and I cannot refute anything. I couldn't see clearly through my WIZ*ONE goggles. Thank you for the high effort post, user.


    Smiley did chart very well (#21 on Circle annual atm) but it does seem like it was a one off, her 2nd release failed to chart anywhere near that level. It is a huge wall separating IU and Taeyeon from the rest if you consider they do this with every single release.

    It is ok.

    You should join BlackpinkHouse who also uses physical sales to project fantastic performance by ex-Izones.. but I think physicals are entirely driven by fandoms.. good for profits etc., but they are siloes and true popularity is to transcend fandoms.. which is better reflected by digital charts and ULs.


    I have nothing for or against Izone.. hopefully they will do increasingly better.

  • Izone has a very solid and loyal fanbase. But without hits the soloist at one certain point will become stagnant or even have downfall in sales as their music is not reaching a bigger audience.

    Now ive and lsf are reaching a bigger audience and gaining more fans.

    No izone solo has anywhere near the popularity of chungha had during 2019.

    °⨳°·..·°⨳°⊹٭ 𝓙𝓞𝓨 ٭⊹°⨳°·..·°⨳°

    e59e7135c19a6341cc1e93725017b2ba7130662a.gifv 6c1d54386949e369c7a401c21503a4af7b66a053.gifv 87421ed4a49499627715cb8666cc133529df9593.gifv 6c1d54386949e369c7a401c21503a4af7b66a053.gifv b2fee2c558a21bd6472498e040b6dad3a40db33e.gifv

  • This thread contains one more post that have been hidden for guests, please register yourself or login to continue reading.

Participate now!

Don’t have an account yet? Register yourself now and be a part of our community!