Why is there not many KPOP coed groups?

Kard gets so much shit from shippers and from "fans" that keeping pitting the only two girls against each other. Despite having a pretty successful debut, they couldn't keep the momentum in Korea despite being one of DSP's biggest acts abroad.

Part of kpop is to sell a parasocial relationship to fans. Can't really do that well if fans think you're getting hetero with your bandmates

Is this a deja vu? I swear I saw a similar thread a while ago

Too risky maybe???

Quote from Freddie235X

What about risky?

Too risky for companies I think. Sure, co-ed groups get traction overseas, but it's hard for co-ed groups domestically, and for K-pop companies, it's better establishing a domestic footing before swimming across any seas. That's my take on it though.

Quote from Freddie235X

I dont know there was a similar thread

so whats your opinions ?

I'll just copy what I said there.

"They be afraind to be in a 3-5 min shipping videos "

Most companies have a hard time marketing/selling co-ed groups, and honestly, they would naturally want to go with the easier route of just making more bg and gg since that's safer and will sell better.

Quote from Freddie235X

that would be my wonder

why is coed groups seem rather difficult to market , is this a Korean thing?

Well, I can't say for certain but I'm guessing...

1) Since co-ed groups market to both genders, perhaps it's difficult to find concepts that would appeal to both genders as opposed to one.

2) Dating. Part of the marketing of Kpop is the illusion of that these idols could be your bf/gf. Obviously that's not the case, but I do think companies can play into that kind of marketing to sell more. That's why dating in kpop can become a huge scandal due to how much "fans" invest themselves in this illusion. They invest themselves to the point of sheer possessiveness.

So companies might not want to risk that idea or decrease that part of the groups' marketability. "Fans" would have a harder time self-inserting themselves into a relationship if they see their idols being friendly with the opposite sex.

Like, one of the biggest co-ed groups Triple H for instance, did get involved in a dating scandal so I don't think that puts a great impression on companies making co-ed groups going forward.

I did you see mention "shipping" with bg/gg. But that's tends to be a bit different. I think that kind of thing is a similar psychology to how irl men might be homophobic but still view lesbian p*rn as sexy or something. These "fans" don't see same-sex shipping as threat and rather enjoy it or get invested in it themselves. So that's why sometimes companies might play into the "shipping" aspect of a boy/ girl group's marketing.

Quote from bunnyviolet

2) Dating. Part of the marketing of Kpop is the illusion of that these idols could be your bf/gf. Obviously that's not the case, but I do think companies can play into that kind of marketing to sell more. That's why dating in kpop can become a huge scandal due to how much "fans" invest themselves in this illusion. They invest themselves to the point of sheer possessiveness.

That's definitely a factor especially as a majority of Idols debut as Minors

Coed groups were actually fairly popular in the beginning days of K-pop (i.e. 1990s and early 2000s).

I'm talking about groups like Cool, Koyote, Roo'ra, Sharp, Two Two, and UP.

I'm not sure what changed, though.

In my opinion, co-ed group is ambiguous marketing wise. The concept must have to be compromised as men and women are different. So, the group may not have a clear color polarizing in a certain spectrum.

From men's perspectives, girl group is meant to be refreshment and the existing of male members is a big let down. Imagine you be a guy and you see male members among your female faves "saranghae" and fly heart to you. That will be very uncomfortable. If men root for boy idols, they like very manly macho ones. And, boys in co-ed group cannot perform very powerfully as they must compromise.

From women's perspectives, women love intimate relationship and, the relationship may be not as intimate when they are both male and female members. Men should never witness the sleeping or bathing habit of their female teammates and vice versa. Also, women won't dare to do skinship as much with male friends around. Something will be different in term of interaction when there is strong present of the opposite sex and the dynamic of the group is effected.

In term of management, co-ed group can be more costly and challenging. All girl group members can share 1 apartment suite and 1 changing room, all co-ed members cannot. The music for co-ed group is more difficult to find and the composition will be more complicated. The choreography will be more challenging too.

Quote from russianvelvet

Sure, co-ed groups get traction overseas, but it's hard for co-ed groups domestically,

Where is this "overseas"? Co-ed group will surely be harder to market in most parts of the world.

Quote from wsoet

Coed groups were actually fairly popular in the beginning days of K-pop (i.e. 1990s and early 2000s).

I'm talking about groups like Cool, Koyote, Roo'ra, Sharp, Two Two, and UP.

I'm not sure what changed, though.

Because those groups were not "idol".

Quote from bzzz

Where is this "overseas"? Co-ed group will surely be harder to market in most parts of the world.

Not South Korea, particularly Western society. And not necessarily: K-pop fans are one of the most dedicated fandoms in the world. Companies don't have to worry hitting it big in particularly countries if they know K-pop fans overseas will just stream and mass purchase albums. In South Korea, companies have to worry about the gp and a fanbase.

Quote from bzzz

In term of management, co-ed group can be more costly and challenging. All girl group members can share 1 apartment suite and 1 changing room, all co-ed members cannot. The music for co-ed group is more difficult to find and the composition will be more complicated. The choreography will be more challenging too.

Yeah these were exact challenges KARD faced in their early days. The girls had to share dressing rooms with the boys, and frankly that was uncomfortable for them... thankfully that changed.

Additionally, KARD had a hard time finding producers and choreographers to work with since they weren't making things with co-ed groups in mind. That's a big reason why BM stepped up and took a larger role in making music for KARD.

If one of the Big4 companies makes a coed group it has a chance to grow big and start a new trend among the new groups. But as people said, this is risky, it's too challenging and it's hard for smaller companies to do that. Small companies rather go the safer route and have at least a decent chance of getting money and success through a girl or boy group while coed one could bring them more losses than anything.

I don't see a reason as to why the big4 don't try this though. They have the money, the resources, the chance and the company stans to at least make the group perform decently.

It’s harder for a group like that to have a clear identity (you have to find music, choreo and a concept that will fit both the boys and the girls) and that makes it harder to market them

Quote from russianvelvet

Not South Korea, particularly Western society.

Which Western society exactly? Since all legendary groups from the west are either boy or girl. And, it is skeptical how many white girls are into girl idols.

Quote from reina-en

I don't see a reason as to why the big4 don't try this though. They have the money, the resources, the chance and the company stans to at least make the group perform decently.

How? Can you not see why they have been separating boy and girl trainees?

Quote from Freddie235X

Dating bandmates of opposite sex in a group is not acceptable, dating members of opposite sex groups is tolerable?

Kpop stans fetishize homosexuality so much it's not even funny

Quote from Freddie235X

Dating bandmates of opposite sex in a group is not acceptable, dating members of opposite sex groups is tolerable?

Quote from zuzuhhaa

i think relationship scandals can potentially happen and/or it can get uncomfortable for the members, and as kard mentioned before its also harder to choose choreography and concepts that fit both genders.

i don't see how this could be a big problem, don't a lot of bgs and ggs have overlapping concepts already? like there's quite a lot of bgs who did cute/fresh concepts similar to ggs while ggs who do girl crush it's kinda the same concept as bgs who have dark edgy hip hop concepts like ateez.

It just isn't 1st gen anymore.

No demand

Quote from nochutae

i don't see how this could be a big problem, don't a lot of bgs and ggs have overlapping concepts already? like there's quite a lot of bgs who did cute/fresh concepts similar to ggs while ggs who do girl crush it's kinda the same concept as bgs who have dark edgy hip hop concepts like ateez.

Quote from zuzuhhaa

their words, not mine, there's probably more to it than we know. i don't think that's as big of an issue these days either but idk

BM also said its hard to find producers that'll work with Coed groups, so he had to start producing for them at some point.

Cause if that happens we will prob get awkward shit like this

I remember this like 11 or so people big group from 12-13 years back... I don't remember how they disbanded but people had a lot rumors till the point where apparently a member was in prison or something and that the group was freaked by some members who had dated eachother or something, IDK but seriously there were sooooo many rumors about them and it was said that especially cause all the shit people were talking about that group other agencies didn't wanted to make co-ed groups for a long time

Quote from nochutae

i don't see how this could be a big problem, don't a lot of bgs and ggs have overlapping concepts already? like there's quite a lot of bgs who did cute/fresh concepts similar to ggs while ggs who do girl crush it's kinda the same concept as bgs who have dark edgy hip hop concepts like ateez.

They can be differences how girls and boys execute cute or fierce concept. Can you imagine boys doing something like TT or Ah Choo? Girl groups may cover songs like Crown, Chewing Gum but, it won't look that girly. Loona is unarguably one among the top of dance for girl group yet, the group has to tone down few moves covering boy groups' songs.

Because of different physiques, boys and girls execute dancing differently. Girls emphasize more on posture while boys focus more on power/acrobat.

It will be also the problem for singing. Girl groups songs these days already sound very high that it is difficult for most girls to sing. No way boys can sing in that range. The key of music must be compromised.

The song can't be flirty without the feel that fellow members are flirting each other. The lyric about stereotype/discrimination against femininity or the song about trashy boyfriend will be awkward when there are boys in the team. The subject to write the lyric on will be more limited too.

bcoz kpop thrive in parasocial activity

Quote from bzzz

Since all legendary groups from the west are either boy or girl.

ABBA and Fleetwood Mac are the two exceptions that come to mind.

Cause the big 3 labels are too afraid to try it. SM debuts a co-ed group and suddenly they'll be popping up out of nowhere

Quote from wsoet

ABBA and Fleetwood Mac are the two exceptions that come to mind.

The Carpenters

The B-52s

Paramore

No Doubt

Blondie

Black Eyed Peas

I forgot wich producer but there was someone, I think the one who makes most stuff for KARD who said that he was too afraid of making CO-ED group songs since it is hard to make songs who suit male and female voices and dances together and so he feared the songs they would make could flop since people might not like the style used in these songs to fit both genders

And I guess this is a point why some companies do not make co-ed groups

Quote from Hopkinz

Cause the big 3 labels are too afraid to try it

Thats wrong

SM:

Some NCT member did a song with Yeri of Red Velvet

There existed a project where different male idols as example ex. EXO Luhan and SNSD Hyoyeon were in (I forgot the name of that project)

Tripple T-Project where Hyoyeon, JYP and 2 other people were in a song together

YG:

AKMU

Quote from SomeoneLovesEXO

Thats wrong

SM:

Some NCT member did a song with Yeri of Red Velvet

There existed a project where different male idols as example ex. EXO Luhan and SNSD Hyoyeon were in (I forgot the name of that project)

Tripple T-Project where Hyoyeon, JYP and 2 other people were in a song together

YG:

AKMU

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But still, none of those SM projects were actual permanent groups. Everything co-ed SM did was just a fun collaboration.

YG has AKMU but they're siblings who got popular because they competed on a survival show and won. They're not the typical "idol" group

I'm still waiting for a AAA group in Korea they've been for so long and even if they aaren't the #1 group they still have a big fanbase that supports them and makes them tour succesfully

they are still my fave jpop group