Companies have to be lying about their album sales

    I know the industry has grown tremendously since 2nd gen but how is every group selling significantly more than their previous album?


    Aespa and Itzy are gonna be selling 2 million an album soon. That's more than S.E.S. And trust me these groups are no where near as big as S.E.S. was.


    Seventeen and Ateez are looking to sell 6 million per album in 2022. I'd love to see someone try and claim these groups are bigger than H.O T.


    Where is this money coming from? Who are buying these albums? If its bulk buyers then where are they storing this worthless crap?


    I swear to god companies be lying their ass off.

    There is literally nothing else for fans to spend money on right now. There are no tours. There are no in person events (well there are a few now.) Even merchandise drops are few and far between.

  • AllKill VIP

    I don't understand why this is so shocking? I really only know the data well for my fave groups, but generally speaking many groups have quietly been increasing their year-over-year sales as part of the Hallyu Wave, which has been show repeatedly in industry tracking over several years talking about the growth of these groups. The pandemic accelerated this growth for many groups as people were either locked down or limited in their entertainment options. So not only did they not have any competition for their discretionary income, they probably paid more attention to releases and kpop in general.


    If you look across consumer trends throughout the global marketplace, there is a lot of data and research around how the pandemic has substantially accelerated many consumer behaviors and trends, including online shopping, home deliveries, cord cutting and overall digital usage. These were trends that were happening to some degree but exploded ahead by 3-5 years and/or a much higher rate than predicted. Additionally, the pandemic disrupted commuter behavior as many offices opted for greater teleworking options due to the shutdowns. This also is creating a shift in what had been a work trend. (You can find all this information pretty easily online from data experts like Nielsen and Deloitte.)


    So instead of purchasing movie tickets or going out with friends to a bar or filling up twice a week, consumers can spend their money on albums and merchandise and stuff. It's not so much an influx of money, but a shift in discretionary spend.


    Just speaking for myself, I don't buy physicals but I know I spent a lot more on online kpop concerts last year than I probably would have if I could have gone to the movies or out to a club or even to a freaking happy hour to get entertainment. Because I've been working from home for over 2 years now, I'm not spending all the money I used to spend on commuting, filling up my car and/or public transport costs. I spend less getting a daily (expensive) cut of coffee on my commute in when I can just roll into the kitchen and make myself one during the day. Additionally, I'm just going to keep stressing that it's not that expensive, depending on where you are, cost of living, etc.


    When I first got into kpop. I could not walk into a Target and buy an EXO album for $12.99. I posted on another thread, but buying the latest NCT album costs me less or about the same as buying a Blu-ray or one movie ticket where I live. Depending on how fancy the club, buying the latest TXT album costs me the same as 1-3 cocktails at happy hour. Even if you take the nicer editions, at $20-30 a pop, that's the equivalent of 3 to 4 fancy Starbucks drinks a week. I know it's not that inexpensive everywhere and I know not everyone makes the same amount of money but there's this ongoing argument that kpop fans are spending lots of money when they aren't necessarily.


    Finally, I'd note that 3rd gen fans are aging up, but not necessarily out of kpop. They are adults earning salaries, which also increases the amount of discretionary income in the kpop marketplace. I can buy an EXO album or an NCT concert in a way that I could not at age 17 or 18 or 19. Some of those adults are also spending with other groups (going back to the more free time and more discretionary income..)

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    Quote from the101

    Finally, I'd note that 3rd gen fans are aging up, but not necessarily out of kpop. They are adults earning salaries, which also increases the amount of discretionary income in the kpop marketplace. I can buy an EXO album or an NCT concert in a way that I could not at age 17 or 18 or 19. Some of those adults are also spending with other groups (going back to the more free time and more discretionary income..)

    buy me albums quark :pleading:

    i'd advise stepping out of the bubble that is assessing popularity based on 1st gen standards.


    if you asked anyone outside South Korea (China, SEA, US) who SES was, literally no one would know. Now with social media allowing for the globalization of K-pop, it is obvious fan-driven behavior would spike sales more than 1st gen standards.


    Aespa sold 100k+ albums from Chinese fanbases alone, which is already 20% of total sales from one country. You can think about how much international recognition and globalization contributes to sales.


    I don't know if your intention is to seriously learn something or just rant like a grandpa about the "good ol' times", so take my info as you will!

    Quote from Drew_B

    Last time you put a CD into it and pressed play?

    no cap it was yesterday.

    my mom found a cd of me from when i was in kindergarten and i wanted to watch it.

    i was such a cute kid :pleading:

    Quote from hruaiic

    Wait, 6 million per album?

    No


    ATEEZ's highest album sale was around 500K if I'm not mistaken. SEVENTEEN's highest was 700K if I remember right. If SEVENTEEN would sell 6 million, than their senior group NU'EST would be at 3 million (wich they are not since NU'EST sells only around half of what SEVENTEEN does). Most groups don't even sell over 20K even if they have high numbers on streaming from Spotify or high youtube-views. MCND for example is the 3rd most watched rookie of 2020 (Ice Age has 27 million views on Youtube) but they barly sold more than 19K on their debut single and their highest sale has only a bit over 29K. If they would sell as claimed in the thread than MCND had allready sold 500K per CD and that won't ever happen.

    A.C.E | ATEEZ | DRIPPIN| MCND | NU'EST | ONF | SF9 | Stray Kids | TFN

    Quote from JiminieKookie

    No


    ATEEZ's highest album sale was around 500K if I'm not mistaken. SEVENTEEN's highest was 700K if I remember right. If SEVENTEEN would sell 6 million, than their senior group NU'EST would be at 3 million (wich they are not since NU'EST sells only around half of what SEVENTEEN does). Most groups don't even sell over 20K even if they have high numbers on streaming from Spotify or high youtube-views. MCND for example is the 3rd most watched rookie of 2020 (Ice Age has 27 million views on Youtube) but they barly sold more than 19K on their debut single and their highest sale has only a bit over 29K. If they would sell as claimed in the thread than MCND had allready sold 500K per CD and that won't ever happen.

    I know they are not even near. Its just me questioning where that no. even came from.

    Quote from JiminieKookie

    No


    ATEEZ's highest album sale was around 500K if I'm not mistaken. SEVENTEEN's highest was 700K if I remember right. If SEVENTEEN would sell 6 million, than their senior group NU'EST would be at 3 million (wich they are not since NU'EST sells only around half of what SEVENTEEN does). Most groups don't even sell over 20K even if they have high numbers on streaming from Spotify or high youtube-views. MCND for example is the 3rd most watched rookie of 2020 (Ice Age has 27 million views on Youtube) but they barly sold more than 19K on their debut single and their highest sale has only a bit over 29K. If they would sell as claimed in the thread than MCND had allready sold 500K per CD and that won't ever happen.

    Seventeen’s highest album sale is 2M+ with Attacca.


    Their 700k was with An Ode’s first week sales in 2019, but even An Ode has surpassed 1.1M sales.

    Quote from SimpforYunkyoung

    Ateez is biggest rarity here. I'm not saying sajaegi! or something like that. But a nugu selling that much really makes you think

    What makes you think they're nugu? They've been popular internationally since they debuted and only gotten more popular over time.

    Kpop is a lot bigger than what it was 2nd generation, the appeal that these groups have is a lot wider than what 2nd generation had. You just have to accept that there are things that 3rd and 4th generations are stronger at in comparison to 2nd generation.


    I don’t see any reason for the companies to be lying about their sales. These groups just have stronger fanbases. Plus, most of the time it’s not even about CDs, the way albums are marketed now is not the same either, it’s about cultivating that fan culture, through pictures, exclusive photo cards, and additional items to promote consumption.


    I don’t really keep much tabs on other groups charts and sales other than the ones I follow, but even then I don’t see why it’s so illogical for the sudden boost in sales especially seeing the effects of Covid-19. It only made sense why the physical market is growing tremendously again.


    Also, just want to point out that your stats in the OP are incorrect. Ateez, Aespa, and Itzy are yet to hit a million, Seventeen’s recent highest is 2M. So, those are some wild predictions.

  • AllKill VIP
    Quote from SimpforYunkyoung

    Ateez is biggest rarity here. I'm not saying sajaegi! or something like that. But a nugu selling that much really makes you think

    This is part of the (very long) point I was making. None of these groups came out of nowhere. They have all been steadily climbing their fanbases. It's just that no one outside of the fans of these groups paid attention until the number was eye catching to them.


    Let's take Ateez:

    They were selling about 23,000 copies in 2018. (This was still good enough to earn 7th place on the Gaon album charts).


    Then their next EP came out and well enough to reach 6th on gaon (I can't see the complete totals and am too lazy rn to go beyond this Ateez Wikipedia page) and 5th on Billboard world album charts. World tour. Buzz. By the next album they were up to 165,479 copies in 2019, enough to earn #1 on the Gaon Album Charts.


    The following album also topped the charts, selling over 179K copies at the beginning of the pandemic. By July of that first pandemic year, they had sold 379K. (During this time, you can also see growth in sales of their back catalog.) Again, intl growth - they were the 5th most tweeted about musician in the U.S. in 2020 and 10th most kpop group in the world.


    The next album reached 500K. Then Kingdom happened. The subsequent album there sold 800K copies.


    More simply, Ateez was already growing and the pandemic accelerated their sales. They went from 165K -> 379 with promos, tours > 500 during pandemic > 800K post Kingdom. This growth happened over 2 years and was already happening..


    If you look at this chart of sales (which is including the totals for back catalog sales through 2021), you will see this growth reflected there..

    Ateez discography - Wikipedia

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    And they sold out their world tour.


    Just Newark Prudential Center has capacity of 19.5K and only 1/4ish is cut off for the stage area based on concert seating chart. Then add in all the floor seats. Well over 13-14K. This is also where BTS, Big Bang, KCON, etc have held concerts. LA is 18K max but only 2/3's + floor seats for concerts so probably 10K+ x 2 days. Chicago is 10K. Atlanta max is 13K but with about 2/3 and floor seats probably 9.5K. Dallas is 6K.


    So Ateez has sold roughly 60K seats in the US alone (and that's based on max capacity less the area reserved for the stage area). And then there is their sold out Europe tour (although postponed). I'm surprised they didn't add more dates since original sale was in 2020 and the fandom has grown a lot after Inception. I know most fans would have attended both days.


    And for record sales, Hello82 counting towards Billboard encouraged a lot more US buyers and motivated more fans who don't buy albums (like me who bought and did giveaways since I didn't want to personally own them). Kingdom was rough for everyone but just like their big surge with Inception bringing a lot more fans in (like me, wasn't even a stan for kpop at the time) they had an increase due to more exposure after Kingdom.


    Obviously they aren't as big as other 4th gen groups based on sales or social media following but they are keeping up as a mid-tier 4th gen group and no sign of stopping as of yet. As for the dip with their latest album, it was a repackage with only 3 original songs so still selling over 400K was impressive to me since there wasn't as strong of a movement to buy buy buy like Fever PT 3 and it was enough to get 2nd Billboard 200 ranking. Stray Kids had a similar dip with their holiday album (not numbers wise because normal sales are much, much higher but meaning the trend of seeing a bit of decrease vs usual sales because it's a special album).

    Where did you even get the 6M from? I would love to see documentation where either group said that because Ateez alone is not that deluded. They are probably feeling pressure if they can even hit 1M.

  • AllKill VIP
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