Are girlgroups not talented enough to produce their own song?

(G)I-DLE?

There are girlgroups/members of girl groups which have composed, wrote songs, etc. But overall, it's a mixture of the two . (Boy groups probably face the same problems, just to a lesser extent.)

Quote from uknowwhat

Can you name one from 3rd gen?

I'm not into girl groups much, you should ask someone else.

the company or industry just don't give them enough artistic freedom.

Restrictions on freedom + lack of training and support since it's not seen as a selling point for GGs as much as it is for BGs(at least currently)

A company is 100% more likely to support a male idol considering both male and female idol have the same willingness and interest in learning this.

Also depends on how much what the female idol wants to convey aligns with the image the company wants to convey for the members which is basically just restricting freedom.

maybe they want to write or compose or produce but are scared or don't have the company support

I think it depends on the label, whether they encourage their artists and train them for song writing or not

For example, since the beginning, RM and Suga were the only ones that has experience in song writing and producing (mainly Suga). But over the years, Bighit got this system where the boys have to write songs and compose them and then share with Bang PD and other producers who will choose the best ones.. So it’s not surprising the earlier works are more of RM and Suga (and then J-hope). But now we are enjoying songs composed by other members even in their albums. Before, Bighit let them share their composition on Soundcloud, for their artistic growth, so there will be no problem with their songs not matching the group’s current concept.

I wish other labels would emulate this so that the artists will experience themselves the ups and downs of song writing and composing. Because otherwise, how will they grow?

As for GGs, I’m sure there are many idols that have the talent but not given the right tools to excel in song writing or composing. I love that Soyeon set the bar high and show everyone that girls are capable too

Soyeon alone beats your faves combined

My impression is women in general inclines to be less interested in music composition.

This has psychological support. Psychological/psychiatric studies suggests that women incline to be more interested in interpersonal job. Music composition job is mostly about of spending time with yourself and the computer machine/music instrument.

On the other hand, I find women more likely to be interested in choreography and companions are needed to design the dance formation.

Lyric writing is another creative job women prefer. Language itself is interpersonal tool so, by average, women are more interested in language than men.

Quote from uknowwhat

Can you name one from 3rd gen?

Mamamoo

Especially sm is just so strict with their idols and they thrive for perfection always. They rarely ever let even their older acts to produce songs

In 4th gen (G)I-DLE & Purple Kiss are here too.

Stan these talented women

I'll give my opinion as someone who stans the two biggest extremes on JYPE when It comes to that. Stray Kids has production and/or writing credits in all the songs of their discography and ITZY didn't compose any of the songs of their albums yet.

Earlier this year, Stray Kids was invited to a japanese program to get interviewed about production. During this show, Chan explained he had his first experience with production during training when he and other trainees were showcasing their skills on performances and he decided to edit the music for that. Changbin explained he auditioned to JYPE with simple raps and beats he made, but with a lot of interest to learn more. They were just teenagers with 0 experience to master this skill, but a lot of interest and potential, so of course, there weren't as professional as they are nowdays. So JYPE, seeing that, offered for Chan, Changbin and Han classes on producting and arranging software.

While ITZY, I've never seen the girls talking about such a thing. NEVER. They've talked about their training period, but their routine had nothing to write and production. I've never seen they saying they had interest or If they don't, If it was offered opportunities for them to develop a skill or not. Sometimes It makes me reflect If they just didn't show interest. But then I remember TWICE's Chaeyoung case where she openly show interest for composition and probably didn't have bigger opportunities since her training. So, sometimes, I think that even if they wanted, the agency seems to have a different plan and vision for their female idols anyway.

More like KPOP is a sexist industry much like the music industry in general.

One thing that needs to be said is boy groups dont rely on public support so they can release any bad song while girl groups rely on general public so need better songs that appeal to the general public.

YG for example had CL basically locked up until the last album writing wise and she wrote some amazing songs on Crush.

CL was lead writer on 4 songs and second writer on another , main producer on 3 song, before that she wasnt really allowed to put her songs on the album so it just shows how sexist in general YG is.

BEG, EXID Mamamoo, Idle...

Why r some of you so obsessed with self producing? The songs just don't become great because of self production.

Anyway, what I wanted to say is that I don't think It's right to automatically link It to lack of talent, but maybe some opportunies might be inexistent.

Quote from nevermindmejin

I think it depends on the label, whether they encourage their artists and train them for song writing or not

For example, since the beginning, RM and Suga were the only ones that has experience in song writing and producing (mainly Suga). But over the years, Bighit got this system where the boys have to write songs and compose them and then share with Bang PD and other producers who will choose the best ones.. So it’s not surprising the earlier works are more of RM and Suga (and then J-hope). But now we are enjoying songs composed by other members even in their albums. Before, Bighit let them share their composition on Soundcloud, for their artistic growth, so there will be no problem with their songs not matching the group’s current concept.

I wish other labels would emulate this so that the artists will experience themselves the ups and downs of song writing and composing. Because otherwise, how will they grow?

As for GGs, I’m sure there are many idols that have the talent but not given the right tools to excel in song writing or composing. I love that Soyeon set the bar high and show everyone that girls are capable too

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I think this isn't something complex or some big no freedom etc thing, this most likely is just a simple thing about interest. This is just like the stem field argument why there isn't xyz girls in this or that when the plain reality is men have a higher interest in wanting to do that over girls.

Just like there's more male producers,djs and lyricist is the same thing with why there's more male scientists than women. Because guys on average want to tinker with shit, women on average just don't care for doing that stuff even when they are presented the same education and opportunity. The same reason there's more male mechanics today, most women don't like the idea of carrying heavy shit, lugging around tools and being covered in dirt, oil and grease and stuck in tight spaces all damn day

Because company don't provide them a pen and a paper.

Twice Chaeyoung write the lyrics for The Feels, the first english song but I dont know if it means self producing?

They're either not talented enough or don't have the desire. I don't believe in the lack of opportunity excuse. If the girls can write and produce good songs then why would their companies not release them?

I'm sure some of them are

Quote from uknowwhat

Can you name one from 3rd gen?

Mamamoo are involved in their songs production as well as for the lyrics, BEG for the second generation, EXID for the 2,5 generation, Purple Kiss too for the 4th generation.

For JYPE in general the artists don't get a lot of creative freedom in the music they want to release. I remember this was a point of contention for GOT7 too...

Quote from Minazuki

They've talked about their training period, but their routine had nothing to write and production.

Itzy talked about it, Chaeryeong said she's practicing writing songs.

tbh even most male artists their "self-producing" is more marketing than actual substantial contribution. 90% of male groups who supposedly write their own songs always have like 4 or more other songwriters credited. Who's to say how big their contribution really was? Once these idols start producing songs for other artists without substantial contribution from others (e.g. Zico and Suga), then I start to believe in their production prowess.

Quote from citron-icy

Itzy talked about it, Chaeryeong said she's practicing writing songs.

Really??? But now after the debut or during training? That's nice to know they have interest

Quote from atropos

The songs just don't become great because of self production.

I agree with you.

However, a song produced and written by the artist actually becomes more personal and sometimes gives more meaning to the song, and strengthens the bond between the audience and the artist.

Quote from Minazuki

Really??? But now after the debut or during training? That's nice to know they have interest

She spoke about it at the beginning of the year, in the video where they take their English lessons.

Quote from citron-icy

She spoke about it at the beginning of the year, in the video where they take their English lessons.

No, Icy, I was asking If she said she is practicing now or since the pre debut

SNSD has called out SM several times for rejecting their songs & lyrics lol

Tiffany shared, “We tried to write our own songs, but the company rejected all of our songs.” The added, “We think we should add the lyrics ‘an unknown world’ or ‘goddesses of fortune’ to our songs,”

This was from Sketchbook where she performed bits from 'Bittersweet & Crazy' , her self-written songs that got away by time lol

Outside of SM I think Jessica Jung wrote all her lyrics and co-produced all songs , except for Fly which she wrote herself

Idk about the rest lol, Soshi members are more into writing lyrics thanks to SM who keeps rejecting their songs

Quote from nevermindmejin

I think it depends on the label, whether they encourage their artists and train them for song writing or not

For example, since the beginning, RM and Suga were the only ones that has experience in song writing and producing (mainly Suga). But over the years, Bighit got this system where the boys have to write songs and compose them and then share with Bang PD and other producers who will choose the best ones.. So it’s not surprising the earlier works are more of RM and Suga (and then J-hope). But now we are enjoying songs composed by other members even in their albums. Before, Bighit let them share their composition on Soundcloud, for their artistic growth, so there will be no problem with their songs not matching the group’s current concept.

I wish other labels would emulate this so that the artists will experience themselves the ups and downs of song writing and composing. Because otherwise, how will they grow?

As for GGs, I’m sure there are many idols that have the talent but not given the right tools to excel in song writing or composing. I love that Soyeon set the bar high and show everyone that girls are capable too

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Yes, indeed. TXT talked about how they were trained on songs writing and producing. Company also encourage them to write tons of songs, composing, producing and pushing their passion more into music.

It makes me curious if they debut a GG, would they receive similar training like BG?

Also, about the conversation of If the self-producted song being good or not, this is relative. It may not me good to me, but It's for someone else. Just like a song made by other producers may be good to me, but not for others. Simply cause there's not objective answer for music and It's quality. This shouldn't even be discussed, because It's obvious atp. The only objetive stuff here is producing or not producing.