Nominations for Inductees into the K-pop Hall of Fame

Op why shinee and why not beast /2pm/ infinite????

For female groups, there are a bunch of possible alternatives that may need further consideration:

- Baby VOX (1997) - expansion into China

- Brown Eyed Girls (2006)? - longest-lasting active girl group

- KARA (2007) - expansion into Japan

- T-ara (2009) maybe?

Bringing up first gen is respectful but they don't really resonate with Ifans.

Quote from wsoet

Yeah I definitely considered all three when putting together my list.

They weren't included simply because I decided to limit myself to 10 artists. If I had 15 slots to work with, they probably would have been included.

It also seems like Shinee's a bit more impactful than Beast/2PM/Infinite. For example, the group has higher physical sales than all three groups, and also has more music show wins. I'd wager that they have the best digital charting and Japanese performance as well.

Now a question to you: Which boy groups would you remove to include Beast/2PM/Infinite?

Display More

I would replace shinee with beast.

2pm was and is still famous in japan.

SHINee, Sechskies, and NCT Dream won 1 daesang each. There has to be a tiebreaker imo

I'll replace Mamamoo with KARA tbh. Shinee seems a bit weak as well compared with others on the list, personally I'll replace them with Sechskies Ig.

Blackpink is greatest girls group of all time. Easy question.

Quote from wsoet

Recently, it seems like I've been seeing a lot of forum posts along the lines of "Who are the top girl groups currently?".

The problem with this is that people have different definitions of what "currently" actually means. Is the proper time horizon one month, one year, five years, or something else?

Thus, what I'd like to consider here is: Who are the greatest K-pop groups of all-time?

Imagine that there's a K-pop Hall of Fame opening in Seoul this year. 10 boy groups and 10 girl groups will be selected as the first members of this Hall of Fame.

Who should be chosen? Here are my selections, presented in order of debut:

BOY GROUPS

• Seo Taiji and Boys (1992)

• H.O.T. (1996)

• Shinhwa (1998)

• g.o.d (1999)

• TVXQ (2003)

• Super Junior (2005)

• Big Bang (2006)

• Shinee (2008)

• EXO (2012)

• BTS (2013)

GIRL GROUPS

• S.E.S. (1997)

• Fin.K.L (1998)

• Wonder Girls (2007)

• Girls' Generation (2007)

• 2NE1 (2009)

• Sistar (2010)

• Mamamoo (2014)

• Red Velvet (2014)

• Twice (2015)

• Blackpink (2016)

I'm pretty comfortable with these options. For each list, I think you could argue about one or two of my picks at the most. Thoughts?

Display More

I feel like KARA and/or T-ARA could be on the girl group list, Mamamoo and SISTAR seem less solid than the other 8 girl groups.

KARA has a huge legacy in Japan for a K-pop group, arguably top 5 of all-time (up there with TVXQ, SNSD, BTS, & TWICE). Plus they have hits like MR., STEP, Pandora, etc.

T-ARA has Lovey Dovey, Bo Beep Bo Beep, Sexy Love, and the massive Roly Poly; as well as a huge fanbase in China.

SISTAR is the weakest physically of all of them. And SoYou it seems had the most lucrative solo career of the members, but outside of an OST and Some, it was short-lived.

Mamamoo could stay on the list, but their physicals were only good for Reality in BLACK and TRAVEL, they lost their Chinese fans and are back to selling 50k on Hanteo with their recent album. Plus their hits are not as big as most of the other 3 groups' hits. I'd say HIP, Decalcomanie, and Starry Night are the only ones that can hold up.

Quote from wsoet

Yeah I definitely considered all three when putting together my list.

They weren't included simply because I decided to limit myself to 10 artists. If I had 15 slots to work with, they probably would have been included.

It also seems like Shinee's a bit more impactful than Beast/2PM/Infinite. For example, the group has higher physical sales than all three groups, and also has more music show wins. I'd wager that they have the best digital charting and Japanese performance as well.

Now a question to you: Which boy groups would you remove to include Beast/2PM/Infinite?

Display More

I feel like SHINee and Beast had bigger hits than 2PM and INFINITE (i.e. Lucifer, Sherlock, Ring Ding Dong, View, Replay for SHINee/Fiction, Good Luck, Shock, Breath, On Rainy Days, 12:30, Beautiful Night for Beast).

SHINee has lasted longer than Beast, and always had stronger physical sales. Beast was hit too hard by leaving Cube and they never really recovered.

Quote from wsoet

Yeah it definitely seems to me that 2PM and Infinite were a notch below in terms of digital charting, which is why I opted to not include them in my list.

Now I do feel that Beast was a bit more consistent as far as digitals are concerned compared to Shinee. However, they're also a bit weaker in other key areas, which gave the edge to Shinee.

Yeah, Beast (as HIGHLIGHT) even had Plz Don't Be Sad as a hit in 2017.

But SHINee always had bigger tours and better physicals, plus a decent Japanese fandom to boot.

Quote from MassiveKpopFan

I feel like SHINee and Beast had bigger hits than 2PM and INFINITE (i.e. Lucifer, Sherlock, Ring Ding Dong, View, Replay for SHINee/Fiction, Good Luck, Shock, Breath, On Rainy Days, 12:30, Beautiful Night for Beast).

SHINee has lasted longer than Beast, and always had stronger physical sales. Beast was hit too hard by leaving Cube and they never really recovered.

I see it the other way round.

2PM's peak/biggest hits were bigger than Shinee and Beast's. I think Heartbeat and Again & Again is bigger than any of the songs you've listed. 2PM had a good 2/3 years where they were everywhere alongside SNSD in SK with Taecyeon even picking up the Nations son-in-law title, whilst also leading to the creation of the "beast idols" title that is still used today. They were 3rd on Gallup in 2009 and 2nd in 2010. Feel like their impact was larger than both in SK despite their peak not being as long as others.

Quote from stan12345

I see it the other way round.

2PM's peak/biggest hits were bigger than Shinee and Beast's. I think Heartbeat and Again & Again is bigger than any of the songs you've listed. 2PM had a good 2/3 years where they were everywhere alongside SNSD in SK with Taecyeon even picking up the Nations son-in-law title, whilst also leading to the creation of the "beast idols" title that is still used today. They were 3rd on Gallup in 2009 and 2nd in 2010. Feel like their impact was larger than both in SK despite their peak not being as long as others.

2PM won a daesang or two, right?

bts and seo taiji & boys definitely. Don't know about others.

Quote from MassiveKpopFan

2PM won a daesang or two, right?

Yeah I think so

Quote from wsoet

Ah, a variation of the classic "peak versus longevity" argument arises again. It'll be interesting to see how 2PM's upcoming comeback does, as we might we to revisit this debate once we see their results.

If the peak is large and impactful enough I'd personally rank it above a smaller peak and a pretty average consistency. With 2PM, Nickhun's drink driving incident really screwed them over.

The 2nd gen for bg's is an interesting one. As it started with TVXQ back in 2003 and lasted a good 10 years through to EXO's debut. Within that TVXQ's sudden break and subsequent split basically opened the game up.

Feel like it's an underrated what if in kpop. TVXQ released Mirotic which is their biggest song, with said album also selling 500k which was massively impressive at the time and hadn't been done by a kpop bg in years. That release ended up being their last Korean release as a full group as they had the legal issues not even a year later.

Their sales were still increasing at the time and they had just had their biggest digital hit so if they hadn't split they would have been the best selling group every year for a few more years. How many records/stats does that take away from other 2nd gen groups if it happened that way? Big Bang were obviously around at that point and loved by the public (but also having years where they never released) but you still had the biggest boy group overall essentially disband suddenly. Imagine how weird the 3rd gen would be if BTS/EXO had some sudden issue that caused a massive split right after their biggest releases. The vacuum that would leave.

A lot of 2nd gen groups got lucky with that. SM Town concerts used to be played in stadiums/Domes all around Asia mainly stemming from that early dominance TVXQ bought about but then their split allowed groups like Super Junior and SNSD to be the best sellers which is a big part of their legacy.

OP, who would your top 5 groups be for each gender?

EXO, without a shadow of a doubt.

Hard to choose, there’s been so many iconic groups in ten years as a fan.

Quote from wsoet

When putting together the list, I was actually thinking of replacing Mamamoo with Kara and Shinee with Sechs Kies myself.

By your estimation, what do you think gives Kara/Sechs Kies the edge over Mamamoo/Shinee?

KARA bcs of Japan, their legacy in Japan alone is enough to put them inside top 10 imo.

For Sechs Kies, they used to be H.O.T direct rival during both groups peak, while Shinee never been a main rival for other 2nd gen BG on the list (TVXQ, BB, SJ). Also, I feel like Sechs Kies hit song are more recognizable than Shinee's in Korea, 'Sechs Kies-Couple' alone is bigger than any Shinee songs combined imo (I don't really have number/data to back up this claim tho).

Quote from stan12345

I see it the other way round.

2PM's peak/biggest hits were bigger than Shinee and Beast's. I think Heartbeat and Again & Again is bigger than any of the songs you've listed. 2PM had a good 2/3 years where they were everywhere alongside SNSD in SK with Taecyeon even picking up the Nations son-in-law title, whilst also leading to the creation of the "beast idols" title that is still used today. They were 3rd on Gallup in 2009 and 2nd in 2010. Feel like their impact was larger than both in SK despite their peak not being as long as others.

Beast had a bigger peak/hits than either 2PM or SHINee, Just look at these numbers. When people say that Beast was second only to BIGBANG, when it comes to GP & Digital sales, they're not exaggerated. Tho these 3 groups have their own strong points like SHINee Physical sales are 2x bigger than 2PM/Beast. 2PM Individual members are much more popular than SHINee/Beast.

Beast was an Anomaly. Won 3 Daesangs at the time when "The Golden Era of KPOP" (as most people said) happened. Too bad that Beast had no "backed up" from a big company/seniors, and pretty much doesn't have a company stans to keep them Relevant in the past years.

BEAST.png

2PM.png

Quote from LeMinerale

Beast had a bigger peak/hits than either 2PM or SHINee, Just look at these numbers. When people say that Beast was second only to BIGBANG, when it comes to GP & Digital sales, they're not exaggerated. Tho these 3 groups have their own strong points like SHINee Physical sales are 2x bigger than 2PM/Beast. 2PM Individual members are much more popular than SHINee/Beast.

Beast was an Anomaly. Won 3 Daesangs at the time when "The Golden Era of KPOP" (as most people said) happened. Too bad that Beast had no "backed up" from a big company/seniors, and pretty much doesn't have a company stans to keep them Relevant in the past years.

BEAST.png

2PM.png

Beast were big no doubt and had a great 2011 but they're not fair comparatives.

Those show Gaon streaming positions and Gaon only came into existence in 2010. 2PM's peak you'd say was 2008-2010 so is basically completely missed by this.

Beast were an anomaly digitally and as mentioned had a great 2011 but lets not forget that YG were beefing with Melon so were not getting Daesangs in 2012. The general reaction to the 2012 win was more an obvious snub by Melon of YG artists and non-kpop groups.

It was a golden generation but it was also marred by multiple boycotts throughout by SM and YG of various award shows at different times which scattered awards around.

2pm's peak was being the most popular bg in the country for 2 or so years. Not sure how Beast match that in terms of peaks.

KARA impact on Japan shouldnt be forgotten

Quote from wsoet

I'd probably go with something like this:

BOY GROUPS

• Seo Taiji and Boys (1992)

• TVXQ (2003)

• Big Bang (2006)

• EXO (2012)

• BTS (2013)

GIRL GROUPS

• S.E.S. (1997)

• Girls' Generation (2007)

• 2NE1 (2009)

• Twice (2015)

• Blackpink (2016)

Cutting out half my original list wasn't easy. For example, I *really* want to include H.O.T. and g.o.d up in there

Display More

the reason I rank H.O.T above EXO and g.o.d is because H.O.T was clearcut top group of their gen while EXO had to compete with BIGBANG and BTS. I'm open to reasons why they are not top 5, though.