Nominations for Inductees into the K-pop Hall of Fame

  • Recently, it seems like I've been seeing a lot of forum posts along the lines of "Who are the top girl groups currently?".


    The problem with this is that people have different definitions of what "currently" actually means. Is the proper time horizon one month, one year, five years, or something else?


    Thus, what I'd like to consider here is: Who are the greatest K-pop groups of all-time?


    Imagine that there's a K-pop Hall of Fame opening in Seoul this year. 10 boy groups and 10 girl groups will be selected as the first members of this Hall of Fame.


    Who should be chosen? Here are my selections, presented in order of debut:


    BOY GROUPS

    Seo Taiji and Boys (1992)

    H.O.T. (1996)

    Shinhwa (1998)

    g.o.d (1999)

    TVXQ (2003)

    Super Junior (2005)

    Big Bang (2006)

    Shinee (2008)

    EXO (2012)

    BTS (2013)


    GIRL GROUPS

    S.E.S. (1997)

    Fin.K.L (1998)

    Wonder Girls (2007)

    Girls' Generation (2007)

    2NE1 (2009)

    Sistar (2010)

    Mamamoo (2014)

    Red Velvet (2014)

    Twice (2015)

    Blackpink (2016)


    SOLOISTS (added June 26)

    Kim Gun-mo (1992)

    Park Jin-young (1994)

    Yoo Seung-jun (1997)

    BoA (2000)

    Psy (2001)

    Kim Jong-kook (2001)

    Rain (2002)

    Lee Hyori (2003)

    IU (2008)

    G-Dragon (2009)


    I'm pretty comfortable with these options. For each list, I think you could argue about one or two of my picks at the most. Thoughts?

    Edited once, last by wsoet ().

  • Op why shinee and why not beast /2pm/ infinite????

    Yeah I definitely considered all three when putting together my list.


    They weren't included simply because I decided to limit myself to 10 artists. If I had 15 slots to work with, they probably would have been included.


    It also seems like Shinee's a bit more impactful than Beast/2PM/Infinite. For example, the group has higher physical sales than all three groups, and also has more music show wins. I'd wager that they have the best digital charting and Japanese performance as well.


    Now a question to you: Which boy groups would you remove to include Beast/2PM/Infinite?

    Edited 2 times, last by wsoet ().

  • I would replace shinee with beast.

    2pm was and is still famous in japan.

  • Yes, all of them were on my radar as well. I think we have a similar situation as the post above yours where the four groups would have been included had I given myself 15 spots to work with instead of 10.


    Now which girl group(s) from my list would you remove? Mamamoo is probably the most questionable entrant, but I gave them the edge given their atypical focus on vocals and de-emphasis of visuals, which bucks the trend for girl groups.

  • Bringing up first gen is respectful but they don't really resonate with Ifans.

    I agree about the lack of resonation with international fans. However, I feel that part of the purpose of a Hall of Fame is to educate its visitors, so First Generation groups need to be represented.

  • I would replace shinee with beast.

    2pm was and is still famous in japan.

    Yeah I can understand replacing Shinee with Beast, since it does look like Beast has better digital charting. Though on the other hand, Shinee does have an advantage in physicals, music show wins, and Japanese performance.


    As for 2PM, I agree about their presence in Japan. I'm just concerned that their digital charting strength is a bit spottier than Shinee's.

  • I'll replace Mamamoo with KARA tbh. Shinee seems a bit weak as well compared with others on the list, personally I'll replace them with Sechskies Ig.

    When putting together the list, I was actually thinking of replacing Mamamoo with Kara and Shinee with Sechs Kies myself.


    By your estimation, what do you think gives Kara/Sechs Kies the edge over Mamamoo/Shinee?

  • I feel like KARA and/or T-ARA could be on the girl group list, Mamamoo and SISTAR seem less solid than the other 8 girl groups.


    KARA has a huge legacy in Japan for a K-pop group, arguably top 5 of all-time (up there with TVXQ, SNSD, BTS, & TWICE). Plus they have hits like MR., STEP, Pandora, etc.


    T-ARA has Lovey Dovey, Bo Beep Bo Beep, Sexy Love, and the massive Roly Poly; as well as a huge fanbase in China.


    SISTAR is the weakest physically of all of them. And SoYou it seems had the most lucrative solo career of the members, but outside of an OST and Some, it was short-lived.


    Mamamoo could stay on the list, but their physicals were only good for Reality in BLACK and TRAVEL, they lost their Chinese fans and are back to selling 50k on Hanteo with their recent album. Plus their hits are not as big as most of the other 3 groups' hits. I'd say HIP, Decalcomanie, and Starry Night are the only ones that can hold up.

    Is he.....you know?

    투모로우바이투게더 방탄
    레드벨벳엑소샤이니에이티즈

    Edited once, last by MassiveKpopFan ().

  • I feel like SHINee and Beast had bigger hits than 2PM and INFINITE (i.e. Lucifer, Sherlock, Ring Ding Dong, View, Replay for SHINee/Fiction, Good Luck, Shock, Breath, On Rainy Days, 12:30, Beautiful Night for Beast).


    SHINee has lasted longer than Beast, and always had stronger physical sales. Beast was hit too hard by leaving Cube and they never really recovered.

    Is he.....you know?

    투모로우바이투게더 방탄
    레드벨벳엑소샤이니에이티즈

  • I agree that Mamamoo is the most questionable of my picks, especially with their recent digital under-performance. I was very close to replacing them with Kara given Kara's very strong legacy in Japan, so I'm good with that substitution.


    I'm a bit more comfortable with Sistar, though I also agree that I would probably remove them next after Mamamoo. For Sistar, it's their record-setting string of nine consecutive Gaon Digital #1 hits that put them over the top for me.


    For T-ara, I recognize their strength in China and their iconic songs, though that's tempered somewhat by their comparatively weak charting later on in their career. That being said, I wouldn't have a problem including them in the Hall of Fame either.

  • I feel like SHINee and Beast had bigger hits than 2PM and INFINITE (i.e. Lucifer, Sherlock, Ring Ding Dong, View, Replay for SHINee/Fiction, Good Luck, Shock, Breath, On Rainy Days, 12:30, Beautiful Night for Beast).


    SHINee has lasted longer than Beast, and always had stronger physical sales. Beast was hit too hard by leaving Cube and they never really recovered.

    Yeah it definitely seems to me that 2PM and Infinite were a notch below in terms of digital charting, which is why I opted to not include them in my list.


    Now I do feel that Beast was a bit more consistent as far as digitals are concerned compared to Shinee. However, they're also a bit weaker in other key areas, which gave the edge to Shinee.

  • Yeah it definitely seems to me that 2PM and Infinite were a notch below in terms of digital charting, which is why I opted to not include them in my list.


    Now I do feel that Beast was a bit more consistent as far as digitals are concerned compared to Shinee. However, they're also a bit weaker in other key areas, which gave the edge to Shinee.

    Yeah, Beast (as HIGHLIGHT) even had Plz Don't Be Sad as a hit in 2017.

    But SHINee always had bigger tours and better physicals, plus a decent Japanese fandom to boot.

    Is he.....you know?

    투모로우바이투게더 방탄
    레드벨벳엑소샤이니에이티즈

  • I feel like SHINee and Beast had bigger hits than 2PM and INFINITE (i.e. Lucifer, Sherlock, Ring Ding Dong, View, Replay for SHINee/Fiction, Good Luck, Shock, Breath, On Rainy Days, 12:30, Beautiful Night for Beast).


    SHINee has lasted longer than Beast, and always had stronger physical sales. Beast was hit too hard by leaving Cube and they never really recovered.

    I see it the other way round.


    2PM's peak/biggest hits were bigger than Shinee and Beast's. I think Heartbeat and Again & Again is bigger than any of the songs you've listed. 2PM had a good 2/3 years where they were everywhere alongside SNSD in SK with Taecyeon even picking up the Nations son-in-law title, whilst also leading to the creation of the "beast idols" title that is still used today. They were 3rd on Gallup in 2009 and 2nd in 2010. Feel like their impact was larger than both in SK despite their peak not being as long as others.


    WFC7Px3.png

  • I see it the other way round.


    2PM's peak/biggest hits were bigger than Shinee and Beast's. I think Heartbeat and Again & Again is bigger than any of the songs you've listed. 2PM had a good 2/3 years where they were everywhere alongside SNSD in SK with Taecyeon even picking up the Nations son-in-law title, whilst also leading to the creation of the "beast idols" title that is still used today. They were 3rd on Gallup in 2009 and 2nd in 2010. Feel like their impact was larger than both in SK despite their peak not being as long as others.


    WFC7Px3.png

    2PM won a daesang or two, right?

    Is he.....you know?

    투모로우바이투게더 방탄
    레드벨벳엑소샤이니에이티즈

  • 2PM's peak/biggest hits were bigger than Shinee and Beast's. I think Heartbeat and Again & Again is bigger than any of the songs you've listed. 2PM had a good 2/3 years where they were everywhere alongside SNSD in SK with Taecyeon even picking up the Nations son-in-law title, whilst also leading to the creation of the "beast idols" title that is still used today. They were 3rd on Gallup in 2009 and 2nd in 2010. Feel like their impact was larger than both in SK despite their peak not being as long as others.

    Ah, a variation of the classic "peak versus longevity" argument arises again. It'll be interesting to see how 2PM's upcoming comeback does, as we might we to revisit this debate once we see their results.

  • 2PM won a daesang or two, right?

    Yeah I think so

    Ah, a variation of the classic "peak versus longevity" argument arises again. It'll be interesting to see how 2PM's upcoming comeback does, as we might we to revisit this debate once we see their results.

    If the peak is large and impactful enough I'd personally rank it above a smaller peak and a pretty average consistency. With 2PM, Nickhun's drink driving incident really screwed them over.


    The 2nd gen for bg's is an interesting one. As it started with TVXQ back in 2003 and lasted a good 10 years through to EXO's debut. Within that TVXQ's sudden break and subsequent split basically opened the game up.


    Feel like it's an underrated what if in kpop. TVXQ released Mirotic which is their biggest song, with said album also selling 500k which was massively impressive at the time and hadn't been done by a kpop bg in years. That release ended up being their last Korean release as a full group as they had the legal issues not even a year later.


    Their sales were still increasing at the time and they had just had their biggest digital hit so if they hadn't split they would have been the best selling group every year for a few more years. How many records/stats does that take away from other 2nd gen groups if it happened that way? Big Bang were obviously around at that point and loved by the public (but also having years where they never released) but you still had the biggest boy group overall essentially disband suddenly. Imagine how weird the 3rd gen would be if BTS/EXO had some sudden issue that caused a massive split right after their biggest releases. The vacuum that would leave.


    A lot of 2nd gen groups got lucky with that. SM Town concerts used to be played in stadiums/Domes all around Asia mainly stemming from that early dominance TVXQ bought about but then their split allowed groups like Super Junior and SNSD to be the best sellers which is a big part of their legacy.

  • When putting together the list, I was actually thinking of replacing Mamamoo with Kara and Shinee with Sechs Kies myself.


    By your estimation, what do you think gives Kara/Sechs Kies the edge over Mamamoo/Shinee?

    KARA bcs of Japan, their legacy in Japan alone is enough to put them inside top 10 imo.


    For Sechs Kies, they used to be H.O.T direct rival during both groups peak, while Shinee never been a main rival for other 2nd gen BG on the list (TVXQ, BB, SJ). Also, I feel like Sechs Kies hit song are more recognizable than Shinee's in Korea, 'Sechs Kies-Couple' alone is bigger than any Shinee songs combined imo (I don't really have number/data to back up this claim tho).

  • Thanks for bringing this up. It's an interesting "what if" scenario that I'd actually never really thought about before. I'm wondering if TVXQ would've had their eventual level of legendary success in Japan had the group stayed together.

  • I see it the other way round.


    2PM's peak/biggest hits were bigger than Shinee and Beast's. I think Heartbeat and Again & Again is bigger than any of the songs you've listed. 2PM had a good 2/3 years where they were everywhere alongside SNSD in SK with Taecyeon even picking up the Nations son-in-law title, whilst also leading to the creation of the "beast idols" title that is still used today. They were 3rd on Gallup in 2009 and 2nd in 2010. Feel like their impact was larger than both in SK despite their peak not being as long as others.


    WFC7Px3.png

    Beast had a bigger peak/hits than either 2PM or SHINee, Just look at these numbers. When people say that Beast was second only to BIGBANG, when it comes to GP & Digital sales, they're not exaggerated. Tho these 3 groups have their own strong points like SHINee Physical sales are 2x bigger than 2PM/Beast. 2PM Individual members are much more popular than SHINee/Beast.

    Beast was an Anomaly. Won 3 Daesangs at the time when "The Golden Era of KPOP" (as most people said) happened. Too bad that Beast had no "backed up" from a big company/seniors, and pretty much doesn't have a company stans to keep them Relevant in the past years.


    BEAST.png

    2PM.png

  • Beast had a bigger peak/hits than either 2PM or SHINee, Just look at these numbers. When people say that Beast was second only to BIGBANG, when it comes to GP & Digital sales, they're not exaggerated. Tho these 3 groups have their own strong points like SHINee Physical sales are 2x bigger than 2PM/Beast. 2PM Individual members are much more popular than SHINee/Beast.

    Beast was an Anomaly. Won 3 Daesangs at the time when "The Golden Era of KPOP" (as most people said) happened. Too bad that Beast had no "backed up" from a big company/seniors, and pretty much doesn't have a company stans to keep them Relevant in the past years.


    BEAST.png

    2PM.png

    Beast were big no doubt and had a great 2011 but they're not fair comparatives.


    Those show Gaon streaming positions and Gaon only came into existence in 2010. 2PM's peak you'd say was 2008-2010 so is basically completely missed by this.


    Beast were an anomaly digitally and as mentioned had a great 2011 but lets not forget that YG were beefing with Melon so were not getting Daesangs in 2012. The general reaction to the 2012 win was more an obvious snub by Melon of YG artists and non-kpop groups.


    It was a golden generation but it was also marred by multiple boycotts throughout by SM and YG of various award shows at different times which scattered awards around.


    2pm's peak was being the most popular bg in the country for 2 or so years. Not sure how Beast match that in terms of peaks.

  • the reason I rank H.O.T above EXO and g.o.d is because H.O.T was clearcut top group of their gen while EXO had to compete with BIGBANG and BTS. I'm open to reasons why they are not top 5, though.

  • KARA bcs of Japan, their legacy in Japan alone is enough to put them inside top 10 imo.


    For Sechs Kies, they used to be H.O.T direct rival during both groups peak, while Shinee never been a main rival for other 2nd gen BG on the list (TVXQ, BB, SJ). Also, I feel like Sechs Kies hit song are more recognizable than Shinee's in Korea, 'Sechs Kies-Couple' alone is bigger than any Shinee songs combined imo (I don't really have number/data to back up this claim tho).

    Yes, you make some worthwhile points, and I'm good with your substitutions. I guess DSP Media deserves some more recognition. :wink:

  • the reason I rank H.O.T above EXO and g.o.d is because H.O.T was clearcut top group of their gen while EXO had to compete with BIGBANG and BTS. I'm open to reasons why they are not top 5, though.

    Ah good point. I think I'm comfortable including H.O.T. in the top 5. Now what about EXO versus TVXQ? Indeed, EXO had to compete with Big Bang and BTS, though one could also argue that TVXQ had to compete with g.o.d early on and Big Bang later on.

    Edited once, last by wsoet ().

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