Why do people leave out NCT Dream in 4th gen competition

The group introduced their first unit, the rotational NCT U, on April 9, 2016 with the double digital single "The 7th Sense" and "Without You". It was followed by the Seoul-based unit NCT 127 on July 7, 2016 with their eponymous extended play and later the then-teenage only unit NCT Dream on August 24, 2016

They debuted in 2016 a month after 127, and we're not gonna sit here and say 127 is 3rd gen and Dream is 4th.

Yes the Dreamies are in the same age range as popular 4th gen groups, but they debuted way before before them.

More examples: ASTRO, Victon, Pentagon, and SF9 aren't gonna be called 4th gen either, are they?

Nothing but facts here. For how little they have been promoted and how little content they have even if they debuted on 2016, their sales are scary. It's funny because as you said nobody talks about them as a "4th gen leading group" when they are the same age of those that are put on the conversation but are selling more and could probably become million sellers on this next comeback. Dream is like 127 level of fandom on Korea and China but with the oldest member being born on 1999. Debuting them as pretty much teens was actually brilliant.

nct dream is not 4th gen.

Quote from Tic_tac_toe

Dream is the biggest competition for TXT/Enhypen/Treasure once 3/3.5 gen start fully enlisting. You can’t just... leave them out eye-

This is true.

MX and NUEST aren't pulling the biggest numbers anymore, and idk what the fuck is going on with GOT7.

Due to their concept, NCT Dream will possibly outlive all these groups and many other groups to come. So idk if it's really important to put them into a generation.

Could they be considered transgenerational?

Quote from MassiveKpopFan

They debuted in 2016 a month after 127, and we're not gonna sit here and say 127 is 3rd gen and Dream is 4th.

Yes the Dreamies are in the same age range as popular 4th gen groups, but they debuted way before before them.

More examples: ASTRO, Victon, Pentagon, and SF9 aren't gonna be called 4th gen either, are they?

I think you are misunderstanding the point, NCT Dream is not a 4th gen group but their competition realistically is 4th gen group for a lot of reasons. We are not gonna act like Dream and 127 are at the same point of their careers just because they debuted on 2016.

Quote from Tic_tac_toe

My dude read the post.

Still don't agree.

Yes they are 4th gen's competition, but they're a 3rd gen group. Literally every unit besides WayV is a 3rd gen group.

Quote from JustWhatIThink

I think you are misunderstanding the point, NCT Dream is not a 4th gen group but their competition realistically is 4th gen group for a lot of reasons. We are not gonna act like Dream and 127 are at the same point of their careers just because they debuted on 2016.

Then I did misunderstand the point, my bad.

I've actually been thinking for months that the next hurdle for 4th gen BGs (outside of each other lol) is Dream.

They are a 3rd gen group technically - but strong 4th gen contenders.

Quote from Mark-Lee

Due to their concept, NCT Dream will possibly outlive all these groups and many other groups to come. So idk if it's really important to put them into a generation.

Could they be considered transgenerational?

NCT as a whole is what will be transgenerational but Dream supposedly won't have the graduation system anymore

I want, and think NCT dream will hit very big

Quote from Tic_tac_toe

The question is literally “why is Dream being left of 4th gen competition” and they should not be excluded.

It’s not about generations exactly.. generations are arbitrary and stupid anyway. People are leaving our actual active competition which is silly.

Now I get your point. Then yes, I'm in agreement.

Quote from MassiveKpopFan

Then I did misunderstand the point, my bad.

I've actually been thinking for months that the next hurdle for 4th gen BGs (outside of each other lol) is Dream.

No problem, it's more about them being left out on the "leading 4th gen convos" than "top 4th gen groups" if you know what we mean, technically they are obviously not 4th gen.

Maybe because many people always said 2017 is the start of 4th gen? and if 2016 also count as 4th gen then BP also should be labelled as 4th gen.

I also don't know how this gen actually works, but yeah NCT Dream power has been growing. I guess some might confused about NCT as a whole. You know only the fandom knows how the system works as a whole.

People who leave Dream out of 4th gen discussions are in for a rude awakening for sure

Age doesnt matter at all

For instance Shinee members are at average the same age as EXO

Onew is the same age of Xiumin. Suho and Lay same age of Minho and Key. Taemin same age as Kai

Doesn't mean they belong to the same generation, just means debut debuted young

Do you know Irene is as old as Yoona?

Quote from JustWhatIThink

NCT as a whole is what will be transgenerational but Dream supposedly won't have the graduation system anymore

Yeah they'll be most likely a sporadic sub-unit now, but I don't think SM will give up on the name once the current members leave the group altogether. The "NCT Dream" sub-unit could be given to other trainees.

Regardless of age, NCT Dream was debuted early than their peers

I think the biggest downside is they are not SM fave out of the subunit

Moreover SM has plans to debut new BG this year (you know the drill..)

Well let's see if SM prove me wrong

Spitting fact i see

NCT as a whole tend to be ignored and it's such a shame. I agree that Dream can be one of the biggest competitor for 4th gen bgs. But their future is also uncertain. If it's true that sm will debut new bg soon, sm will care even less than now. But i still can see them pulling big numbers even with new sm bg.

Quote from Icaro_Ribeiro

Age doesnt matter at all

For instance Shinee members are at average the same age as EXO

Onew is the same age of Xiumin. Suho and Lay same age of Minho and Key. Taemin same age as Kai

Doesn't mean they belong to the same generation, just means debut debuted young

Do you know Irene is as old as Yoona?

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The start of 3rd gen pretty much came up with EXO that was like the #1 BG since debut. This is not the case of any 4th gen group at all. Age does matter on the korean idol industry where you have to enlist at a certain point (for bgs). And realistically Dream's competition won't be Monsta X, Seventeen or NCT 127, but 4th gen boygroups that have debuted until now. Dream has a huge ass future ahead if SM plays their cards right.

I think nct will never join these discussions unless you ask who’s the top groups in kpop.. nonfans don’t care for the units stats and 4th gen fans will add smnbg to the competition...

I agree.

Yeah, we all know they debuted in 2016, but, why does that mean that they have to be ignored and not taken as a competition?

If we talk about "4th gen" meaning this actual era, then they will be here when other 3 or 3.5 gen groups will be in the army.

And some groups like Stray kids and Ateez (as I remember) debuted just 2 years after Dream, and actually Dream average age is younger than them.

Dream is like Shinee debuting in a gen closer to Suju's than Exo's but still being as young and more popular than a lot of other groups of EXO'S gen.

Also most 4th gen debuted groups are aiming for 500k while Dream's goal is 1 million and still their average age is like 20, so they'll be there for a long time..

Quote from quark12395

"not the favorite subunit" literally makes no sense. I know it's used in regards to comebacks, but I think people just don't understand the subunits.

NCT 127 and WayV are fixed units. They debuted that way and they've always been that way.

NCT Dream was essentially a project unit with a graduation concept until 2020. The members were intended to only temporarily be a part of NCT Dream. I don't think it's a coincidence that they're getting their first full album after becoming a fixed unit.

What I mean is SM won't be giving the extra attention, promo, better MV production, etc you name it.

It could impact the results you know. Especially with the upcoming NBG (you know how SM works).

For example: Make A Wish vs 90's love vs Work It

You know which you got the better result, promo, and MV production right?

Therefore i think you can conclude yourself

* I'm not trying to create fanwar between the units I just take this example to explain to you better"

they debuted in 2016 they are 3rd gen

Quote from Tic_tac_toe

It’s not about generation. It’s about competition. Shinee and pretty much all of 2/2.5 gen was no competition for anyone top in 3rd gen. So there was no need to include them in the conversation.

For example leaving out EXO from 3rd gen competition because some think 2013 is the start of 3rd gen would be wrong.

I'm confused about what you are deeming as competition. If it's about disputing the same market space i.e. disputing the same amount of kpop fans to convert into fans, buyers or at least casual customers of the group then I must say idols age is nowhere near as important as activity period

Hence a group debuted in 2016 impact over a rookie group debuted from 2021 onwards will be VERY slim, especially in kpop industry where most groups starts peaking on their 4th year. Point, NCT Dream fanbase is mostly shared across all NCT units so it's disingenuous set them apart only because they will enlist later, as far I'm concerned Dream is just as much as "red competition" for 4th gen Boygroups as NCT 127 and Seventeen

If your are talking about worthless rankings, awards, titles, and things kpop industry create to estimulate fans spending and engagement into mindless wars, voting galore and social media flood then I must say every active group is already a potential treat and competition to any 4th gen group, including older ones like BTS or EXO. And well 4th gen stans ignore them mostly because they are aware of their achievements being mostly uneventful compared to older ones. Once their numbers starts to come even slightly closer to 3rd gen you will see 4th gen stans acknowledging 3rd gen groups as competitors, NCT Dream included