Why do people leave out NCT Dream in 4th gen competition

  • My dudes they’re the same age as many members of TXT or Treasure. Yeah yeah you can argue they debuted before and its not about age etc etc


    But in terms of competition tho. They’re gonna be competing and being active for pretty much the exact time frame. You can’t talk about who is going to be “big in 4th gen” and then leave out Dream because they’re gonna be a pretty big threat.


    NCT isn’t just NCT 127. Even when the popular members of 127 and seventeen I.e 3.5 gen have to enlist, Dream will still be there.


    Dream is the biggest competition for TXT/Enhypen/Treasure once 3/3.5 gen start fully enlisting. You can’t just... leave them out eye-

  • The group introduced their first unit, the rotational NCT U, on April 9, 2016 with the double digital single "The 7th Sense" and "Without You". It was followed by the Seoul-based unit NCT 127 on July 7, 2016 with their eponymous extended play and later the then-teenage only unit NCT Dream on August 24, 2016

    What does this have anything to do with what I said

  • They debuted in 2016 a month after 127, and we're not gonna sit here and say 127 is 3rd gen and Dream is 4th.


    Yes the Dreamies are in the same age range as popular 4th gen groups, but they debuted way before before them.


    More examples: ASTRO, Victon, Pentagon, and SF9 aren't gonna be called 4th gen either, are they?

    Is he.....you know?

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  • Nothing but facts here. For how little they have been promoted and how little content they have even if they debuted on 2016, their sales are scary. It's funny because as you said nobody talks about them as a "4th gen leading group" when they are the same age of those that are put on the conversation but are selling more and could probably become million sellers on this next comeback. Dream is like 127 level of fandom on Korea and China but with the oldest member being born on 1999. Debuting them as pretty much teens was actually brilliant.

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  • Dream is the biggest competition for TXT/Enhypen/Treasure once 3/3.5 gen start fully enlisting. You can’t just... leave them out eye-

    This is true.


    MX and NUEST aren't pulling the biggest numbers anymore, and idk what the fuck is going on with GOT7.

    Is he.....you know?

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  • They debuted in 2016 a month after 127, and we're not gonna sit here and say 127 is 3rd gen and Dream is 4th.


    Yes the Dreamies are in the same age range as popular 4th gen groups, but they debuted way before before them.


    More examples: ASTRO, Victon, Pentagon, and SF9 aren't gonna be called 4th gen either, are they?

    I think you are misunderstanding the point, NCT Dream is not a 4th gen group but their competition realistically is 4th gen group for a lot of reasons. We are not gonna act like Dream and 127 are at the same point of their careers just because they debuted on 2016.

    Neo got my back


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  • Nothing but facts here. For how little they have been promoted and how little content they have even if they debuted on 2016, their sales are scary. It's funny because as you said nobody talks about them as a "4th gen leading group" when they are the same age of those that are put on the conversation but are selling more and could probably become million sellers on this next comeback. Dream is like 127 level of fandom on Korea and China but with the oldest member being born on 1999. Debuting them as pretty much teens was actually brilliant.

    My point exactly. People are too fixed on arbitrary definition of 4th gen that they forget that NCT dream is just a bunch of kids who debuted a bit earlier. It’s less about “generation” and more about Dream being left out of conversation when it comes to who’s gonna be really big in the wake of majority of 3rd gen enlisting.

  • I think you are misunderstanding the point, NCT Dream is not a 4th gen group but their competition realistically is 4th gen group for a lot of reasons. We are not gonna act like Dream and 127 are at the same point of their careers just because they debuted on 2016.

    Then I did misunderstand the point, my bad.


    I've actually been thinking for months that the next hurdle for 4th gen BGs (outside of each other lol) is Dream.

    Is he.....you know?

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  • Due to their concept, NCT Dream will possibly outlive all these groups and many other groups to come. So idk if it's really important to put them into a generation.


    Could they be considered transgenerational?

    NCT as a whole is what will be transgenerational but Dream supposedly won't have the graduation system anymore

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  • Still don't agree.


    Yes they are 4th gen's competition, but they're a 3rd gen group. Literally every unit besides WayV is a 3rd gen group.

    The question is literally “why is Dream being left of 4th gen competition” and they should not be excluded.


    It’s not about generations exactly.. generations are arbitrary and stupid anyway. People are leaving our actual active competition which is silly.

  • The question is literally “why is Dream being left of 4th gen competition” and they should not be excluded.


    It’s not about generations exactly.. generations are arbitrary and stupid anyway. People are leaving our actual active competition which is silly.

    Now I get your point. Then yes, I'm in agreement.

    Is he.....you know?

    투모로우바이투게더 방탄
    레드벨벳엑소샤이니에이티즈

  • Then I did misunderstand the point, my bad.


    I've actually been thinking for months that the next hurdle for 4th gen BGs (outside of each other lol) is Dream.

    No problem, it's more about them being left out on the "leading 4th gen convos" than "top 4th gen groups" if you know what we mean, technically they are obviously not 4th gen.

    Neo got my back


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  • Maybe because many people always said 2017 is the start of 4th gen? and if 2016 also count as 4th gen then BP also should be labelled as 4th gen.

    I also don't know how this gen actually works, but yeah NCT Dream power has been growing. I guess some might confused about NCT as a whole. You know only the fandom knows how the system works as a whole.

    • Official Post

    Honestly I don't know what is going to happen with Dream in the future.


    Last year when they announced that the graduation concept would be dropped and Mark would return, they said that Dream would promote similar to NCT U (which I assume was done so that Dream could have a full comeback even if Mark and Haechan were stuck on tour with 127). But they also said that the rest of the Dream members would be added to new units. This is also supported by the fact that Jaemin and Jeno were positioned to be front and center in NCT 2020's comebacks which seemed to be reintroducing them to NCT fans who didn't follow Dream.


    With the popularity boost over the last year and the massive numbers that Hot Sauce is doing in pre-orders, I really wonder if they are going to revisit that announcement. As you said, they have a clear advantage of youth like 4th gen groups. (In fact there's still nearly an entire decade before the 00 line of NCT Dream will need to enlist.) I know SM is looking to launch a new boy group in the near future, but honestly I think if they play their cards right that NCT's entire set up will be able to stay relevant and even continue to grow during military hiatus.

  • It’s not about generation. It’s about competition. Shinee and pretty much all of 2/2.5 gen was no competition for anyone top in 3rd gen. So there was no need to include them in the conversation.


    For example leaving out EXO from 3rd gen competition because some think 2013 is the start of 3rd gen would be wrong.

  • i feel like no one understood what you meant ^^

    yeah they're third gen but they should be compared to the 4th gen in terms of music and such because of the age group. i agree.

    but i also disagree respectfully because dream has been around for 5 years now making them more experienced, and more skilled hypothetically. plus these guys have been training since they were like 10.

    • Official Post

    Regardless of age, NCT Dream was debuted early than their peers

    I think the biggest downside is they are not SM fave out of the subunit

    Moreover SM has plans to debut new BG this year (you know the drill..)

    Well let's see if SM prove me wrong

    "not the favorite subunit" literally makes no sense. I know it's used in regards to comebacks, but I think people just don't understand the subunits.


    NCT 127 and WayV are fixed units. They debuted that way and they've always been that way.


    NCT Dream was essentially a project unit with a graduation concept until 2020. The members were intended to only temporarily be a part of NCT Dream. I don't think it's a coincidence that they're getting their first full album after becoming a fixed unit.

  • The start of 3rd gen pretty much came up with EXO that was like the #1 BG since debut. This is not the case of any 4th gen group at all. Age does matter on the korean idol industry where you have to enlist at a certain point (for bgs). And realistically Dream's competition won't be Monsta X, Seventeen or NCT 127, but 4th gen boygroups that have debuted until now. Dream has a huge ass future ahead if SM plays their cards right.

  • I think nct will never join these discussions unless you ask who’s the top groups in kpop.. nonfans don’t care for the units stats and 4th gen fans will add smnbg to the competition...

    Your average ggs enthusiast...

  • "not the favorite subunit" literally makes no sense. I know it's used in regards to comebacks, but I think people just don't understand the subunits.


    NCT 127 and WayV are fixed units. They debuted that way and they've always been that way.


    NCT Dream was essentially a project unit with a graduation concept until 2020. The members were intended to only temporarily be a part of NCT Dream. I don't think it's a coincidence that they're getting their first full album after becoming a fixed unit.

    If they’re gonna be million sellers with this first full album I don’t see why they won’t be getting more stuff from here on out.


    It also feels like the perfect time because they aren’t such young kids any more. Dream is gonna have a lot to offer me thinks.

  • I agree.


    Yeah, we all know they debuted in 2016, but, why does that mean that they have to be ignored and not taken as a competition?


    If we talk about "4th gen" meaning this actual era, then they will be here when other 3 or 3.5 gen groups will be in the army.


    And some groups like Stray kids and Ateez (as I remember) debuted just 2 years after Dream, and actually Dream average age is younger than them.


    Dream is like Shinee debuting in a gen closer to Suju's than Exo's but still being as young and more popular than a lot of other groups of EXO'S gen.


    Also most 4th gen debuted groups are aiming for 500k while Dream's goal is 1 million and still their average age is like 20, so they'll be there for a long time..

  • "not the favorite subunit" literally makes no sense. I know it's used in regards to comebacks, but I think people just don't understand the subunits.


    NCT 127 and WayV are fixed units. They debuted that way and they've always been that way.


    NCT Dream was essentially a project unit with a graduation concept until 2020. The members were intended to only temporarily be a part of NCT Dream. I don't think it's a coincidence that they're getting their first full album after becoming a fixed unit.

    What I mean is SM won't be giving the extra attention, promo, better MV production, etc you name it.

    It could impact the results you know. Especially with the upcoming NBG (you know how SM works).

    For example: Make A Wish vs 90's love vs Work It

    You know which you got the better result, promo, and MV production right?

    Therefore i think you can conclude yourself

    * I'm not trying to create fanwar between the units I just take this example to explain to you better"

  • I think Sm already changed a lot of their plans looking at the success of Dream tbh. Maybe they’ll change more


    So far we saw Dream the graduation unit. This time we will see the first full album of Dream the fixed unit. Maybe it’ll be better who knows.

  • It’s not about generation. It’s about competition. Shinee and pretty much all of 2/2.5 gen was no competition for anyone top in 3rd gen. So there was no need to include them in the conversation.


    For example leaving out EXO from 3rd gen competition because some think 2013 is the start of 3rd gen would be wrong.

    I'm confused about what you are deeming as competition. If it's about disputing the same market space i.e. disputing the same amount of kpop fans to convert into fans, buyers or at least casual customers of the group then I must say idols age is nowhere near as important as activity period


    Hence a group debuted in 2016 impact over a rookie group debuted from 2021 onwards will be VERY slim, especially in kpop industry where most groups starts peaking on their 4th year. Point, NCT Dream fanbase is mostly shared across all NCT units so it's disingenuous set them apart only because they will enlist later, as far I'm concerned Dream is just as much as "red competition" for 4th gen Boygroups as NCT 127 and Seventeen


    If your are talking about worthless rankings, awards, titles, and things kpop industry create to estimulate fans spending and engagement into mindless wars, voting galore and social media flood then I must say every active group is already a potential treat and competition to any 4th gen group, including older ones like BTS or EXO. And well 4th gen stans ignore them mostly because they are aware of their achievements being mostly uneventful compared to older ones. Once their numbers starts to come even slightly closer to 3rd gen you will see 4th gen stans acknowledging 3rd gen groups as competitors, NCT Dream included

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