Why itzy is the only big 4th gen GG to never recover from their flop era ??

this is about to get messy

Jyp should request Mhj to mention itzy like how she did with aespa and pulled them out of their downward trend

Yes

I like Itzy

The answer is jyp. It’s not a coincidence that suddenly twice, itzy and now nmixx all can’t produce a hit song in korea to save their life. The jyp brand has lost a lot of its power and prestige; people outside the hardcore kpop fan bubble simply don’t check out its groups’ releases anymore, be it an old favourite like twice or a new rookie like nmixx. Itzy was just the “middleman” in that downward spiral, so to speak.

don't be acting like all JYP GG are not in their flop era.... dont just single out ITZY.

come on naw...

We haven't had this recycled thread topic for quite a while now.

Quote from SooYoung

But itzy, twice and nmixx have been doing badly for years now

And in the middle of all these years it didn't stop Nayeon from getting a hit with POP

nayeon’s case was the outlier - she shouldn’t be treated as the rule here. She was the first twice member to have an official solo release in 7 years, which was much later than twice’s contemporaries, so it’s not hard to understand why the curiosity and hype surrounding such novelty propelled her song to the top of charts right from the start. Of course the song being a catchy summer bop helped sustain its charting, but at least the initial spark was there.

You just need to look at nayeon’s sophomore release’s performance this year to see that pop was a one-time thing and the hype was not quite sustainable - again, it’s all about jyp’s branding

I think itzy just managed to capatilize off the fact they were the next jyp gg following Twice and debuted around the time kpop was blowing up internationally, releasing wannabe around the height popularity in 2020

Quote from SooYoung

But if JYP was able to do it 2 years ago

It means that he still have the feels

Is he just getting lazy ? Or wasting too much time drinking with BSH when he should focus on his group ?

not sure you made any sense lol

You can produce the best masterpiece this world has ever seen and still make no noise and money for it if nobody checks it out and gives it the validation and commercial success it deserves in the first place. There are countless artists who never experienced fame and fortune while they were alive - Edgar allan poe didn’t suddenly produce more groundbreaking works after he died to be considered one of the greatest poets now; his body of work just got re-evaluated and more people only got to know and appreciate him after his death. He certainly didn’t get to enjoy much of his prestige himself during his life.

Circling back to kpop, whether jyp still has enough creative juice left in him to produce hit songs is irrelevant, if nobody paid attention to his work in the first place. Your attempt at shading him doesn’t quite land in this case lol. This applies to every other company and brand. It’s not rocket science

Lack of taste from the public. Itzy has one of the best discographies of the 4th generation. Just bc Korea didn't appreciate it, doesn't mean Itzy wasn't releasing quality songs. Imo, the only song that wasn't up to the Itzy standard was Cheshire. Everything else has been gold.

And are we acting like Sneakers wasn't a hit? And acting like Cake was a flop??

Can hardly call Girls a flop when it peaked at 8 on digital charts the only time aespa flopped was with Black Mamba and that’s their debut

I think for Itzy their problem is timing. They debuted too early compared to the rest of 4th generation girl groups that I’ve seen people class them as gen 3.5. They’ve also been active nonstop since debut so naturally they would lose support. Gidle took a break to recover from their scandal which might have given the public/ fans a chance to miss them/ appreciate their music

Quote from SooYoung

But itzy is the only big 4th gen gg who were unable to recover from their flop era

They flopped once and then continue to flop

It's like people completely abandon them after just one flop in comparisons of other girlgroup of their gen

that's not entirely true.

Sneakers did well, charted on top 5.

Cheshire totally flopped BUT cake did okay-ish. Now they are very much charting based on virality & music

All in all, ITZY the name is just NOT a strong household name. Casuals dont just tune in when they release something.

When someone has become a household name, you can see the level of hype for their comeback - first hour / first day ULs, also like you pointed out, if GP not feeling one song, they still come back for their next song. They are also giving chance to the artists if they dont like the TT - Girls era we had Illusion, Super Lady era we had Fate.

Quote from whiffy

You can produce the best masterpiece this world has ever seen and still make no noise and money for it if nobody checks it out and gives it the validation and commercial success it deserves in the first place. There are countless artists who never experienced fame and fortune while they were alive - Edgar allan poe didn’t suddenly produce more groundbreaking works after he died to be considered one of the greatest poets now; his body of work just got re-evaluated and more people only got to know and appreciate him after his death. He certainly didn’t get to enjoy much of his prestige himself during his life.

Indeed. Van Gogh was a nobody until well after he died.

This is him finding out how popular he is now:

I guess we'll see once Lia comes back if they can get back on the charts

Why did Twice not recover inspite of being one of, if not, the most dominant GG in Korea?

Why did Stray Kids consistently flop outside of their fandom inspite of having probably the second biggest fandom in Kpop?

Why are Nmixx the only 4th gen group with 0 buzz right now?

Imho it's because JYP and the creative department suck at 2 core areas.

They have no idea how to start or spot current or upcoming trends so everything feels out of date and boring.

Second, they have 0 ability to market their groups. Outside of their fandoms and their haters does anyone actually ever pay any mind or attention to JYPE groups anymore? Itzy will never recover unless a full clean out of the creative and marketing departments for JYPE happen.

One major reason that kpop community seems to be in denial/ignorant about is that JYP is creatively dead.

Literally when I picture JYP creative director office in my head it's just this:

Everything coming out of JYP conceptually, visually, sonically, is just so cheap-looking and tacky. The MVs, concept photos, styling, choreos, the songs themselves, despite desperately trend hopping, always feel like uncanny imitations of the trend attempted by an out-of-touch grandpa (because it is). No matter what concept JYP attempts to pull off in imitation of their competitors (girl crush to copy BP, chic to copy IVE, mixed-genre songs to copy Aespa/SM in general) it just feels to inauthentic and badly executed.

NMIXX never recovered.

But I guess that just like my faves, they were never successful, so there was nothing to recover.

Maybe the creative team will improve when Lia returns. Because they need to do a complete renovation. I personally have much better ideas than the management at the JYP. If they are going to copy, they can copy the movie concepts, they can make mythical concepts. They shouldn't take photo shoots that have nothing to do with the concept. Also, unfortunately, both their clothing style and their MVs and songs seem outdated compared to other nugu groups.

There is a general prejudice against Itzy, I personally don't know how they can break this. Even when they release a quality song, they will say they didn't like it anyway. It's best for them to move forward with the style and ideas they like.

Quote from TheBotter

JYP and the creative department suck at 2 core areas.

They have no idea how to start or spot current or upcoming trends so everything feels out of date and boring.

Second, they have 0 ability to market their groups.

Quote from rubyjanes

One major reason that kpop community seems to be in denial/ignorant about is that JYP is creatively dead.

Quote from Selynn

Maybe the creative team will improve when Lia returns. Because they need to do a complete renovation. I personally have much better ideas than the management at the JYP.

It's apparent that many here believe that JYPE is "creatively bankrupt". But why is this seemingly more of an issue at JYPE than other entertainment companies?

Because JYP that's why.

I actually think that ITZY still had some steam left in them because Cake charted for a couple months last year, which is better than the vast majority of groups can do. However, I think the promotional rollout for Born to Be left many confused and overwhelmed about which song was the title track. ITZY still has a decently large fandom so maybe they can still bounce back. But JYP or Galactika needs to be producing the music.

Quote from SooYoung

Yeah but why in contrary of name like aespa or gidle who had a hit and cameback to the good side of koreans

Itzy wasn't able to make it after Cheshire ?

Cake did okay but it was not a hit neither a top 10 or a song with a good longevity in the top 100

Cake performance were very mid, that's why i still consider it in their flop era even if it did better than untouchable and cheshire

like i said, because ITZY didn't build up / establish their name before they start to flop / underperform.

Their debut Dalla Dalla did extremely well but first comeback ICY did okayish on chart only, despite sweeping a lot of music show wins (which signify more on fanbase support than GP support). The subsequent comeback Wannabe definitely pulled back some GP support but on kchart, WannaBe did better than ICY but not as good as global responses.

Their downturn started at next comeback Not Shy. Mafia just continued their slowing down momentum. Say thank you to JYP for switching concept so early during their career. Had they continued with sounds like Loco, Sneakers, Cake after WannaBe, they will definitely perform much better and able to hold more momentum. Add to that, a lot of new 4th gen GGs coming into the competition.

ITZY is like a soft version of RV for 4th gen. They charted consistently during their early prime years, and after that, charting solely dependent on quality of songs. I like Cheshire & untouchable but these kind of songs are very much cater for the West.

Quote from MassiveKpopFan

However, I think the promotional rollout for Born to Be left many confused and overwhelmed about which song was the title track. ITZY still has a decently large fandom so maybe they can still bounce back. But JYP or Galactika needs to be producing the music.

and this. JYP seem so desperate for the Born to Be rollout and shooting all kind of opportunity to get a hit

They actually had a great start with their debut year, their songs, the promotions, their popularity, it all clicked together. But maybe bad luck that they didn't have the follow up songs at a level that could continue that streak?

I think regarding Lias hiatus the opinions are divided. I personally think they handled it amazing, couldn't be better really. Giving her space to breathe, being very transparent about it, seemingly keeping the door open for her to return and the farewell song she did for her hiatus etc. Those that complain basically have the opinion "no LIA, no ITZY" and want the group to go on hiatus as a whole until she is back, whenever that happens. Which is a sure way to get the group into complete irrelevancy. This way at least if she someday eventually returns she has a group to go back to. Also pretty sure that is not what the other members would have wanted to basically give up their job and passion for an unclear amount of time, unless they needed a break too. Which seemingly they didn't otherwise I'd assume this would have happened.

How can you recover when you release a song called cake

Quote from Belkiss

How can you recover when you release a song called cake

It literally helped them to regained some momentum...