Idols who can't sing/rap/songwriting should leave the industry

    I disagree with 4th gen trend to bring visual charms and figure over the talent. Kpop is a genre of MUSIC, at the first place. If you came on stage to perform for the people who paid a money, you need to have music skills. Otherwise, it's a fraud.

    The industry is fulfilled by oxygen thieves, meanwhile really talented trainees struggle to achieve the recognition. Having a pretty face is not an excuse of laziness to work with vocals and music. You may say "it's hard to sing and dance simultaneously, and distribute a time for learning all the skills needed". Yes, you are right, it's not easy but this is the core of kpop.

    I am sure that untalented idols can easily find another job: open onlyfans, establish mukbang blog or continue to post in Instagram. Lets bring to the top those ones who deserved a fame by day-per-day work increasing their own improvement.

  • Go to Best Answer
  • AllKill VIP

    How dare you shade my faves like that, I am blocking you!

    Quote from Sugary-Salt

    where did a little dwarf from your pfp go

    Removal of pfp is one of the penalties of recieving certain number of warning points, a mod got mad cuz i posted this thread about a kpop idol in kpop section instead of dead current events section

    Thread
    Le sserrafim's Yunjin embroiled in Starbucks controversy
    twitter.com/hyevrs/status/1766…dkBBb2F22BLY7yBq5u0Q&s=19

    x.com/WHORESCOPE_1117/status/1766638093418070224?s=20


    x.com/gfriendnl/status/1766632803377066307?s=20

    x.com/oddtae/status/1766613971858030632?s=20

    twitter.com/chaerizardd/status…J6wB5D2hZ5FuU3E50mEg&s=19

    twitter.com/kyoongfairy/status…A-OC6fAV0C4KRr7p-j1Q&s=19

    twitter.com/usernmik/status/17…UG6s95L4VA-t2KXHxhNg&s=19
    thebadguy
    • Best Answer
    Quote from DaisyTheGenuine

    It's not and it never was. Let's be serious

    That's not true. This stupid "visuals is more important" trend started in the 3rd gen. Technically in the 2nd, but all visuals was at least an average singer too.


    I wouldn't say they should leave the industry, because 90% of the Idol groups wouldn't be here at all. Most of them doesn't really have a choice when it comes to writing and producing songs. The real problem is when they don't want to learn how to make music or be better vocalists.


    As many vocal coaches said already, in Kpop you don't have to be an Opera singer, but the BARE MINIMUM that an Idol should do is be average in everything. Singing, Rapping and dancing. Producing and writing songs is not that important for everyone. I think writing songs is only mandatory for RAPPERS. They're not real rappers if they don't write their parts, at least. Everyone can learn to write and compose songs, but not everyone can be good at it. Honestly, it's much harder to write lyrics than learn to sing properly.


    But let's be real, that's never going to happen, because old Kpop fans like me already forget about this, because we know it's never going to happen, and new Kpop fans grew up thinking, only visuals matter.


    There's a positive in this too, because there are too many average or below-average groups, so you can find the real talents much easier.

  • AllKill VIP
    Quote from thebadguy

    Removal of pfp is one of the penalties of recieving warning points, a mod got mad cuz i posted this thread about a kpop in kpop section instead of dead current events section

    Thread
    Le sserrafim's Yunjin embroiled in Starbucks controversy
    twitter.com/hyevrs/status/1766…dkBBb2F22BLY7yBq5u0Q&s=19

    x.com/WHORESCOPE_1117/status/1766638093418070224?s=20


    x.com/gfriendnl/status/1766632803377066307?s=20

    x.com/oddtae/status/1766613971858030632?s=20

    twitter.com/chaerizardd/status…J6wB5D2hZ5FuU3E50mEg&s=19

    twitter.com/kyoongfairy/status…A-OC6fAV0C4KRr7p-j1Q&s=19

    twitter.com/usernmik/status/17…UG6s95L4VA-t2KXHxhNg&s=19
    thebadguy

    Lol what a noob

  • AllKill VIP
  • AllKill VIP
    Quote from Sugary-Salt

    don't say that dancing is not important. It is equally important, but not in a case when idol learned choreo and they think it's ok to suck in vocal skill


    Quote from David33

    That's not true. This stupid "visuals is more important" trend started in the 3rd gen. Technically in the 2nd, but all visuals was at least an average singer too.

    Simple questions:

    why do you think they're called idols and not artists or singers?

    What was the kpop industry modelled after?

    Why are idols at the bottom of the totem pole in the Korean entertainment industry?

    Why do they have dating bans?

    Why do they package their albums the way they do?

    Why is most of an idol's time dedicated to fan engagement?


    Music is not the product but the means to sell the product. The idol is the product and always has been.


    While I agree the standards are slipping with each gen, it's always been for the pretty and charming funded by fans' parasocial obsession. Even in 2nd gen, the visual/center was always the most popular despite most of them not being able to hold a tune, the main vocal rarely was.


    Not saying I don't want better vocals and less acrobatic dancing but it's always been apparent what kpop was about


    And no, this is not an invitation for a rant about Mamamoo is so different or special. Nobody cares

    Complex is over-rated, I’ll go up higher and shine brighter than anyone else

    BLACKPINK✿JESSICA✿NEWJEANS✿SEJEONG✿THE ROSE✿TWICE✿YERIN BAEK✿YUKIKA✿THE VOLUNTEERS

    ee868cb541261094eb3c49077579820d9d2684ef.gifv259551f29b1b419b0910ccd1ffe7a59b3ca03dbb.gifv9179a574e42e68a00c37635d5151fe4ebba30003.gifv9fbbfdae9fd592cc7858e29f534e290375563da9.gifv

    Like 2

    Songwriting =/= making good music. I think a lot of kpop stans think that just having songwriting as a skill is enough, but if you can write and its still shitty then what? Idols are not selling talents. They are selling fantasies. Lets all be real and wake up!! be woke!! open a twt account!!

    Oh my baby sweet like bubble gum!

    16a5ad82f46a76cf3cdeb18fe28d7be0a6d0a66f.gifv

    Then kpop will die because 90% of the industry is made up of those idols ^^


    it's funny to see you blaming 4 gen when the rule has been flawed from the start.

    4gen is only the continuity of what was acceptable since 2gen, then 3gen

    There is no point blaming the industry, they just follow what consumers (fans) want.


    These are the consequences of our own action, lol

    “ < 4 you & her ”

    Sad 1
  • AllKill VIP
    Quote from YamaChwan

    That's not true.


    :pepe-smug:


    And as a lifelong MooMoo and now Tokki, I find this thread difficult to relate to :pepe-shrug:

    Honestly same. I don't care about Vlives, Weverse, bubble, variety shows, and most misc content idols put out. Feels like a job to keep up with.

    For me, my method of consumption is largely through music, interviews and stage performance, so I expect at least competence there. But I'm still aware of what being an idol means

    Complex is over-rated, I’ll go up higher and shine brighter than anyone else

    BLACKPINK✿JESSICA✿NEWJEANS✿SEJEONG✿THE ROSE✿TWICE✿YERIN BAEK✿YUKIKA✿THE VOLUNTEERS

    ee868cb541261094eb3c49077579820d9d2684ef.gifv259551f29b1b419b0910ccd1ffe7a59b3ca03dbb.gifv9179a574e42e68a00c37635d5151fe4ebba30003.gifv9fbbfdae9fd592cc7858e29f534e290375563da9.gifv

    Quote from YamaChwan

    That's not true.


    :pepe-smug:


    And as a lifelong MooMoo and now Tokki, I find this thread difficult to relate to :pepe-shrug:

    New Jeans members are too young, it's understandable, no questions. They have a plenty of time for progress. However, when I see the idol in her 20's, it's even not her first group and she is lacking, this is disrespectful.


    no way, 2gen ggs are much better singers

    Dance, Sing, rap, no salary, no dating scandals, these new idols have it all.


    GG--pv_agAAA3yB?format=jpg&name=medium

    GIZRD7wa8AAI1k4?format=jpg&name=large

    I'm sorry, but that's a weak argument. Just because they're Idols, doesn't mean they don't have to be better vocalists, at least average. I mean, come on, western singers aren't called Idols, but there are zero difference between them. All of them are Idols. Don't tell me that "Idol" singers like, Taeyeon, IU, Wendy, EXO, SISTAR, EXID or Luna from f(x) and yes, like it or not, Mamamoo members and many others are not artists, because they're Idols, too? Just because they're called "IDOLS" doesn't mean they're not MUSICIANS. All of them proved and Idol can sing, dance, rap at the same time at least on an average level. That's all I'm asking.


    Kpop was based on western Pop, and they're real musicians. Later Jpop influenced them even more. They're at the bottom, because people forget it what's important, and now it's not about music anymore, but that wasn't the case 10+ years ago. The toxic rules like dating bans has nothing to do with being better singers and artists. It's like saying, Korean actors don't have to be good at acting, because fans are care about their personal life more than what they do on-screen.


    You made some good point, and those are the standards NOW, but like I said, back in the day, it wasn't like that. At least, not as much. I mean, look at Bigbang for example. They made music on their own, and they're still one of the most loved Kpop group ever. YoonA from SNSD literally invented the position: CENTER and VISUAL, but they're real artists. No SNSD member were worse than average in anything. That's my point, honestly.

    Quote

    And no, this is not an invitation for a rant about Mamamoo is so different or special. Nobody cares

    And this is THE problem, this attitude. Most Kpop fans don't care. Not about Mamamoo, about these things. I said this many times. Kpop agencies are like BAD PARENTS and FANS are the BAD KIDS and Idols are the GOOD KIDS, and they have to deal with the bullies from both sides, basically. Fans just mimicking what they see from their "parents".

  • AllKill VIP
    Quote from David33

    All of them are Idols. Don't tell me that "Idol" singers like, Taeyeon, IU, Wendy, EXO, SISTAR, EXID or Luna from f(x) and yes, like it or not, Mamamoo members and many others are not artists, because they're Idols, too?

    Except I didn't say it was impossible for idols to also be artists, I said they're something different. The fact that you picked out a few exceptions that you consider artists as well proves that. And sidenote, your definition of an artist is very different from mine.

    Quote from David33

    Kpop was based on western Pop, and they're real musicians. Later Jpop influenced them even more. They're at the bottom, because people forget it what's important, and now it's not about music anymore, but that wasn't the case 10+ years ago.


    You made some good point, and those are the standards NOW, but like I said, back in the day, it wasn't like that. At least, not as much. I mean, look at Bigbang for example. They made music on their own, and they're still one of the most loved Kpop group ever.

    I don't like the revisionist history 2nd gen stans have adopted. And again, exceptions.


    kpop music is based off western music. The idol system is completely taken from the Japanese idol system, which prioritizes fan engagement and retention over artistry.


    Big Bang was beloved for making their own music because they were one of few groups doing it back then. They were the only ones getting called artists. I remember SNSD Sooyoung getting put on blast because she tried to say SNSD should be considered artists back in the day, the respect was not lost, it was never there to begin with. Overall 2nd gen were not as creatively involved as the gens after. In some ways the standards dropped and in some ways they got better


    Quote from David33

    The toxic rules like dating bans has nothing to do with being better singers and artists.

    Almost like that's not the priority... You're getting closer...

    Complex is over-rated, I’ll go up higher and shine brighter than anyone else

    BLACKPINK✿JESSICA✿NEWJEANS✿SEJEONG✿THE ROSE✿TWICE✿YERIN BAEK✿YUKIKA✿THE VOLUNTEERS

    ee868cb541261094eb3c49077579820d9d2684ef.gifv259551f29b1b419b0910ccd1ffe7a59b3ca03dbb.gifv9179a574e42e68a00c37635d5151fe4ebba30003.gifv9fbbfdae9fd592cc7858e29f534e290375563da9.gifv

    Quote from DaisyTheGenuine

    It's not and it never was. Let's be serious

    True kpop isn't about music regardless of how much they say it is. We know this is a lie, if it wasn't why are kpop idols always super hot models why are they always dolled up with makeup, why is their such an isane emphasis on abs muscles nice figures butts and nice titts why all the "sexy outfits" and shoots and dances. Why are idols cancelled and kicked off if they date? You wouldn't give a fuck about any of this if it was about the MUSIC. The western system is about music notice how Jonas Brothers, nysnc, justin Bieber, Taylor Swift, Kanye West etc didn't have to be super sexy people just average nobody cares about them dating etc. one industry is about the music, the other isn't

    Idols are entertainers before being artists to be fair and some of them are not passionate about music at all. They go into acting or modelling as soon as their group is done.


    They still mainly sell content based on music and this is why I don't stan a group if they are ridiculous each time they hold a mic. Dancing skills are less important to me because it does not make a song. Some idols are actually pretty talented and I prefer to stan groups with some skills than the ones with the best visuals. Music is my first criteria then the group's skills. Yet, I am aware that I also don't fully stan Mamamoo or Red Velvet because of their discography or their talent, it's also about following their journey, watching the group's growth and their bond. It's in fact a bit more complicated than talent stans vs visual stans.

    Quote from kazuyakamenashi

    True kpop isn't about music regardless of how much they say it is. We know this is a lie, if it wasn't why are kpop idols always super hot models why are they always dolled up with makeup, why is their such an isane emphasis on abs muscles nice figures butts and nice titts why all the "sexy outfits" and shoots and dances. Why are idols cancelled and kicked off if they date? You wouldn't give a fuck about any of this if it was about the MUSIC. The western system is about music notice how Jonas Brothers, nysnc, justin Bieber, Taylor Swift, Kanye West etc didn't have to be super sexy people just average nobody cares about them dating etc. one industry is about the music, the other isn't

    There are lots of Western singers who dress in way less than the average Kpop idol, so there is definitely an element of thirst in the Western music industry as well. A lot of Western MVs are all about the butt shots and sexy poses, with as little fabric on the female singers especially as possible. With many of them, I get the feeling it's more about shaking their asses than the actual music.


    And everyone cares very much about who these people are dating, at least when they're in their heyday. Not a day goes by and I don't hear about what Taylor and Travis are up to, and I don't even go looking for that info.


    Most popular Western artists are well above average in attractiveness.

    The Backstreet Boys and Nsync had exactly the same kinds of fans that Kpop boygroups have now. There were even already fans buying multiple copies of albums to make their fave out of the two groups beat the other one.

    Justin Bieber was also very popular for his looks when he was younger and was the teen idol for a while. (he didn't age well).

    Edited 3 times, last by Fansamy ().

    Quote from QueenMaknae27

    David flop is always arguing with somebody in every thread :cursing: :cursing:

    Says the most toxic Blink on the Forum. I'm not arguing, disagreeing with someone is not a big deal. I've seen you do much worse many times in the past couple of days, so don't be a hypocrite.


    Quote from DaisyTheGenuine

    Except I didn't say it was impossible for idols to also be artists, I said they're something different. The fact that you picked out a few exceptions that you consider artists as well proves that.


    Big Bang was beloved for making their own music because they were one of few groups doing it back then. They were the only ones getting called artists. I remember SNSD Sooyoung getting put on blast because she tried to say SNSD should be considered artists back in the day, the respect was not lost, it was never there to begin with. Overall 2nd gen were not as creatively involved as the gens after. In some ways the standards dropped and in some ways they got better


    Almost like that's not the priority... You're getting closer...

    No, those are not exceptions, they're the STANDARD! Everyone else are just MODELS!

    Quote

    your definition of an artist is very different from mine.

    I'm sorry, but what? Art has only ONE definition. The ARTIST CREATE THEIR OWN ART! That's all! I wonder, what is your definition, tho. Please tell me. Not in Kpop, because your standards are very low, that's obvious, but I'm curious what is art to you. I'm not sarcastic or trolling, I'm honestly want to know. You know why? Because we have a similar taste in many things. So, I want to know why did you lower your standards.


    Quote

    I don't like the revisionist history 2nd gen stans have adopted. And again, exceptions.


    kpop music is based off western music. The idol system is completely taken from the Japanese idol system, which prioritizes fan engagement and retention over artistry.

    Yes, but if some Idols and groups can create art and be real musicians, it's not really about what Idols are or what Kpop is right now, is it? It's just a matter of choice made by the companies, most of the time. This is one of the main reason why group members leave their agencies after 5-7 years. Some of them didn't have a successful career, but they still tried to create something real, not another manufactured soulless music.


    Also, you can't say 2nd gen groups are exceptions, because it's not their fault that that TALENT is not the main point of Kpop anymore. So, the real exceptions are the newer groups, not the old ones.


    Quote

    I remember SNSD Sooyoung getting put on blast because she tried to say SNSD should be considered artists back in the day, the respect was not lost, it was never there to begin with.

    Wait, what? SNSD is one of the most respected group ever in the history of Kpop. What are you saying? You don't earn the title "The Nation's Girl Group" if you're not a respected artist.😅


    You know what irritates me the most? People who accept the fact that Kpop is dying.


    I mean, just watch these two videos. Park Eun Bin is an actress, she trained for SIX MONTHS for her new role so she can sing, and now she's MILES better than most Idol singers. How is that possible? She cares about her craft. I'm not saying Idols doesn't care, but trust me, if the agencies would care more about talent than visuals, Kpop could be MUCH BIGGER internationally. Right now, Kpop is only successful for short-term. They have to create new cute and sexy groups every year, because people get bored with them pretty fast.


    Anyway, watch these vids.


    Studio version.

    External Content www.youtube.com
    Content embedded from external sources will not be displayed without your consent.
    Through the activation of external content, you agree that personal data may be transferred to third party platforms. We have provided more information on this in our privacy policy.

    LIVE:

    External Content www.youtube.com
    Content embedded from external sources will not be displayed without your consent.
    Through the activation of external content, you agree that personal data may be transferred to third party platforms. We have provided more information on this in our privacy policy.


    She sings one of the hardest songs after six months of training. Her range, belting, resonance and stamina is INSANE. Even when she's not perfect live, because she's nervous. This was her first concert, btw. This is why my standards are high! IF some Idols or even an actress can sing properly, everyone should do the same.

  • This thread contains 27 more posts that have been hidden for guests, please register yourself or login to continue reading.

Participate now!

Don’t have an account yet? Register yourself now and be a part of our community!

Register Yourself Login