Idols who can't sing/rap/songwriting should leave the industry

How dare you shade my faves like that, I am blocking you!

Nah im in here for visuals and drama, everything else secondary

Quote from Sugary-Salt

where did a little dwarf from your pfp go

Removal of pfp is one of the penalties of recieving certain number of warning points, a mod got mad cuz i posted this thread about a kpop idol in kpop section instead of dead current events section

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thebadguy

Mar 10th 2024

The industry is just offering what the audience is demanding.

Fat ones and ugly ones too. Kpop fans are looking for a visual feast too.

Songwriting =/= making good music. I think a lot of kpop stans think that just having songwriting as a skill is enough, but if you can write and its still shitty then what? Idols are not selling talents. They are selling fantasies. Lets all be real and wake up!! be woke!! open a twt account!!

Quote from dummi

Songwriting =/= making good music.

straykids for example

Quote from DaisyTheGenuine

Nobody cares

That's not true.

And as a lifelong MooMoo and now Tokki, I find this thread difficult to relate to

Then kpop will die because 90% of the industry is made up of those idols

it's funny to see you blaming 4 gen when the rule has been flawed from the start.

4gen is only the continuity of what was acceptable since 2gen, then 3gen

There is no point blaming the industry, they just follow what consumers (fans) want.

These are the consequences of our own action, lol

dont forget

They are called idols for a reason. YOU should quit K-pop.

Quote from purnhub

dont forget

This explains aespa's obsession with lip syncing

well, I guess kpop isn't for you then

Dance, Sing, rap, no salary, no dating scandals, these new idols have it all.

Quote from thebadguy

straykids for example

COOOOOOOOOOK!

Quote from Sugary-Salt

with 4th gen trend to bring visual charms and figure over the talent

It was the same trend during 3rd gen and 2nd gen. It's not a 4th gen thing. Those idols bring in money and fame for their group than the 'talented' people.

I think idols who are involved in bullying scandal should leave the industry.

Quote from DaisyTheGenuine

Simple questions:

why do you think they're called idols and not artists or singers?

What was the kpop industry modelled after?

Why are idols at the bottom of the totem pole in the Korean entertainment industry?

Why do they have dating bans?

Why do they package their albums the way they do?

Why is most of an idol's time dedicated to fan engagement?

Music is not the product but the means to sell the product. The idol is the product and always has been.

While I agree the standards are slipping with each gen, it's always been for the pretty and charming funded by fans' parasocial obsession. Even in 2nd gen, the visual/center was always the most popular despite most of them not being able to hold a tune, the main vocal rarely was.

Not saying I don't want better vocals and less acrobatic dancing but it's always been apparent what kpop was about

And no, this is not an invitation for a rant about Mamamoo is so different or special. Nobody cares

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I'm sorry, but that's a weak argument. Just because they're Idols, doesn't mean they don't have to be better vocalists, at least average. I mean, come on, western singers aren't called Idols, but there are zero difference between them. All of them are Idols. Don't tell me that "Idol" singers like, Taeyeon, IU, Wendy, EXO, SISTAR, EXID or Luna from f(x) and yes, like it or not, Mamamoo members and many others are not artists, because they're Idols, too? Just because they're called "IDOLS" doesn't mean they're not MUSICIANS. All of them proved and Idol can sing, dance, rap at the same time at least on an average level. That's all I'm asking.

Kpop was based on western Pop, and they're real musicians. Later Jpop influenced them even more. They're at the bottom, because people forget it what's important, and now it's not about music anymore, but that wasn't the case 10+ years ago. The toxic rules like dating bans has nothing to do with being better singers and artists. It's like saying, Korean actors don't have to be good at acting, because fans are care about their personal life more than what they do on-screen.

You made some good point, and those are the standards NOW, but like I said, back in the day, it wasn't like that. At least, not as much. I mean, look at Bigbang for example. They made music on their own, and they're still one of the most loved Kpop group ever. YoonA from SNSD literally invented the position: CENTER and VISUAL, but they're real artists. No SNSD member were worse than average in anything. That's my point, honestly.

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And no, this is not an invitation for a rant about Mamamoo is so different or special. Nobody cares

And this is THE problem, this attitude. Most Kpop fans don't care. Not about Mamamoo, about these things. I said this many times. Kpop agencies are like BAD PARENTS and FANS are the BAD KIDS and Idols are the GOOD KIDS, and they have to deal with the bullies from both sides, basically. Fans just mimicking what they see from their "parents".

Also, Kpop won't die, because even in 4th and 5th gen there are real talents like G-Idle, Aespa, NMIXX and Kiss of Life.

That's why I'm not worried, honestly because there always will be real talents, not just the typical IDOLS.

Goodbye Shuhua

David flop is always arguing with somebody in every thread

Quote from DaisyTheGenuine

It's not and it never was. Let's be serious

True kpop isn't about music regardless of how much they say it is. We know this is a lie, if it wasn't why are kpop idols always super hot models why are they always dolled up with makeup, why is their such an isane emphasis on abs muscles nice figures butts and nice titts why all the "sexy outfits" and shoots and dances. Why are idols cancelled and kicked off if they date? You wouldn't give a fuck about any of this if it was about the MUSIC. The western system is about music notice how Jonas Brothers, nysnc, justin Bieber, Taylor Swift, Kanye West etc didn't have to be super sexy people just average nobody cares about them dating etc. one industry is about the music, the other isn't

Idols are entertainers before being artists to be fair and some of them are not passionate about music at all. They go into acting or modelling as soon as their group is done.

They still mainly sell content based on music and this is why I don't stan a group if they are ridiculous each time they hold a mic. Dancing skills are less important to me because it does not make a song. Some idols are actually pretty talented and I prefer to stan groups with some skills than the ones with the best visuals. Music is my first criteria then the group's skills. Yet, I am aware that I also don't fully stan Mamamoo or Red Velvet because of their discography or their talent, it's also about following their journey, watching the group's growth and their bond. It's in fact a bit more complicated than talent stans vs visual stans.

i wish all idols could sing....

Sadly kpop is very visual heavy and fans only support idols who are hot. So if every idol that had no talent except being pretty left, kpop would not be as popular as it is.

Quote from kazuyakamenashi

True kpop isn't about music regardless of how much they say it is. We know this is a lie, if it wasn't why are kpop idols always super hot models why are they always dolled up with makeup, why is their such an isane emphasis on abs muscles nice figures butts and nice titts why all the "sexy outfits" and shoots and dances. Why are idols cancelled and kicked off if they date? You wouldn't give a fuck about any of this if it was about the MUSIC. The western system is about music notice how Jonas Brothers, nysnc, justin Bieber, Taylor Swift, Kanye West etc didn't have to be super sexy people just average nobody cares about them dating etc. one industry is about the music, the other isn't

There are lots of Western singers who dress in way less than the average Kpop idol, so there is definitely an element of thirst in the Western music industry as well. A lot of Western MVs are all about the butt shots and sexy poses, with as little fabric on the female singers especially as possible. With many of them, I get the feeling it's more about shaking their asses than the actual music.

And everyone cares very much about who these people are dating, at least when they're in their heyday. Not a day goes by and I don't hear about what Taylor and Travis are up to, and I don't even go looking for that info.

Most popular Western artists are well above average in attractiveness.

The Backstreet Boys and Nsync had exactly the same kinds of fans that Kpop boygroups have now. There were even already fans buying multiple copies of albums to make their fave out of the two groups beat the other one.

Justin Bieber was also very popular for his looks when he was younger and was the teen idol for a while. (he didn't age well).

Quote from QueenMaknae27

Goodbye Shuhua

no one can get rid of boss baby

Quote from QueenMaknae27

David flop is always arguing with somebody in every thread

Says the most toxic Blink on the Forum. I'm not arguing, disagreeing with someone is not a big deal. I've seen you do much worse many times in the past couple of days, so don't be a hypocrite.

Quote from DaisyTheGenuine

Except I didn't say it was impossible for idols to also be artists, I said they're something different. The fact that you picked out a few exceptions that you consider artists as well proves that.

Big Bang was beloved for making their own music because they were one of few groups doing it back then. They were the only ones getting called artists. I remember SNSD Sooyoung getting put on blast because she tried to say SNSD should be considered artists back in the day, the respect was not lost, it was never there to begin with. Overall 2nd gen were not as creatively involved as the gens after. In some ways the standards dropped and in some ways they got better

Almost like that's not the priority... You're getting closer...

No, those are not exceptions, they're the STANDARD! Everyone else are just MODELS!

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your definition of an artist is very different from mine.

I'm sorry, but what? Art has only ONE definition. The ARTIST CREATE THEIR OWN ART! That's all! I wonder, what is your definition, tho. Please tell me. Not in Kpop, because your standards are very low, that's obvious, but I'm curious what is art to you. I'm not sarcastic or trolling, I'm honestly want to know. You know why? Because we have a similar taste in many things. So, I want to know why did you lower your standards.

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I don't like the revisionist history 2nd gen stans have adopted. And again, exceptions.

kpop music is based off western music. The idol system is completely taken from the Japanese idol system, which prioritizes fan engagement and retention over artistry.

Yes, but if some Idols and groups can create art and be real musicians, it's not really about what Idols are or what Kpop is right now, is it? It's just a matter of choice made by the companies, most of the time. This is one of the main reason why group members leave their agencies after 5-7 years. Some of them didn't have a successful career, but they still tried to create something real, not another manufactured soulless music.

Also, you can't say 2nd gen groups are exceptions, because it's not their fault that that TALENT is not the main point of Kpop anymore. So, the real exceptions are the newer groups, not the old ones.

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I remember SNSD Sooyoung getting put on blast because she tried to say SNSD should be considered artists back in the day, the respect was not lost, it was never there to begin with.

Wait, what? SNSD is one of the most respected group ever in the history of Kpop. What are you saying? You don't earn the title "The Nation's Girl Group" if you're not a respected artist.😅

You know what irritates me the most? People who accept the fact that Kpop is dying.

I mean, just watch these two videos. Park Eun Bin is an actress, she trained for SIX MONTHS for her new role so she can sing, and now she's MILES better than most Idol singers. How is that possible? She cares about her craft. I'm not saying Idols doesn't care, but trust me, if the agencies would care more about talent than visuals, Kpop could be MUCH BIGGER internationally. Right now, Kpop is only successful for short-term. They have to create new cute and sexy groups every year, because people get bored with them pretty fast.

Anyway, watch these vids.

Studio version.

LIVE:

She sings one of the hardest songs after six months of training. Her range, belting, resonance and stamina is INSANE. Even when she's not perfect live, because she's nervous. This was her first concert, btw. This is why my standards are high! IF some Idols or even an actress can sing properly, everyone should do the same.