Without the Garam incident, would LeSserafim have beaten NewJeans?

    Now comparing NJ and LS is superfluous.


    However LS did have the initiative.


    It was directly run by Hybe (So Sungjin, the ex owner of Source, has no say on how LS is run) and was a favorite of Mr. Bang.


    However, the Garam incident totally ruined LS's debut, and now LS has 5 members, same as NJ, and NJ's fandom is bigger.


    So, despite of having an actual American member, LS did not get to perform in USA before NJ, which has no American members.


    Granted, LS was formed to appeal to the Asian market and NJ to markets not covered by LS, but NJ also appeared in a Japanese show, showing if NJ feels like it will take LS's share in Japan as well.


    Without the Garam incident and the loss of initiative, I think LS would have been able to stage a good fight against NJ, giving BaeMon a chance.


    But now NJ has sailed past everyone, which is making YG delay the debut of BM again and again and again.


    YG probably planned to see a deadly struggle between the two Hybe divisions, but the garam incident ended any possibility of such fight being viable.


    When blackpink debuted, twice was fighting gfried and ioi, giving a chance to a new act. However NJ is now not fighting anyone, other than potentially BTS (and Min Heejin is now working with Taehyung), since the battles are over.


    The Garam incident, whatever the merits were, proved to be decisive for the fight of LS against NJ in my opinion.

    Nope.

    From the general reaction to the song on the international side (more negative than positive, comparisons to a tampon ad and saying it's forgettable) I'd say no. Especially considering the post Garam version didn't chart well.


    Fact is LSF's main selling point was the fanbases of Sakura, Yujin and Chaewon. None of their fans boycotted and they still didn't sell more or chart better. LSF's concept is basically a high class version of early Itzy. If they had significant popularity in the US Hybe would market them there as well, its why NWJNs got sent to Japan, but they don't.


    Also lets not act like YG is planning to be the Oriole watching the mantis stalking the cicada. They are what they always were, a mess. Lets not forget YG delayed BP's debut for around 2 years for no reason. If they want to see a fight, its still possible with Aespa, Newjeans and IVE being the same as Twice, Gfriend and IOI.

    Too early to count out LSFM. They haven't been properly promoted outside Korea yet and already are putting up impressive numbers. I'll wait to see what they do with their next release and how it gets marketed.


    But no, I don't think any existing

    4th gen GG can compete with NJ overall.

    Quote from mysterikmagick

    Too early to count out LSFM. They haven't been properly promoted outside Korea yet and already are putting up impressive numbers. I'll wait to see what they do with their next release and how it gets marketed.


    But no, I don't think any existing

    4th gen GG can compete with NJ overall.

    This

    There were never going to be a rivalry between the two groups, each one of them has a distinct concept from the other which gives them two different kind of fandoms that never collide, also small fun fact Min Heejin was supposed to work with hybe and source to creat their new gg so some Lesserafim and Newjeans members could've ended together in the same group, Le sserafim as projet started to develop only in 2020 after Min heejin got her own sub label so this whole rivalry thing was never going to be a thing Hybe just happen to end up with two successful girl groups

    Quote from nana18

    There were never going to be a rivalry between the two groups, each one of them has a distinct concept from the other which gives them two different kind of fandoms that never collide, also small fun fact Min Heejin was supposed to work with hybe and source to creat their new gg so some Lesserafim and Newjeans members could've ended together in the same group, Le sserafim as projet starting to develop only in 2020 after Min heejin got her own sub label so this whole rivalry thing was never going to be a thing Hybe just happen to end up with two successful girl groups

    yes

    Hanni used to train with Yunjin

    Quote from nana18

    Even Minji and Daniel at some point no ?

    Probably Minji since Hanni and her were trainees together for so long, not sure about Danielle.


    Here are some vids of Yunjin talking about training days with Hanni.


    Yunjin mentioned NewJeans Hanni and talked about their trainee days
    #lesserafim #yunjin #newjeans #hanniyou can watch the full live in their weverse official.Disclaimer: all of my videos go under thoughtful revision of a cont...
    www.youtube.com

    Yunjin Imitates Hanni's accent during trainee days...
    #newjeans #ditto #hanni #뉴진 #hypeboy #minji #haerin #danielle #hyein #danielle #newjeans_of_winter #ditto #kpop #hypeboy #newjeans_omg #newjeans_omg...
    www.youtube.com

    newjeans has one thing that le sserafim doesn't have, songs that make you addicted to listening again. songs that cover a wide spectrum of music lovers. newjeans has a lot of those songs in their pockets right now.

    Japanese market will be very interesting, if newjeans can do what bts did in japan, they can dominate the market.

  • AllKill VIP

    Just let each group do their own stuff like y'all be acting as if they be disbanding in the next few days


    They still have 10 more remixes of the eve beard boom boom boom to go


    Stream


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    imo Garam was overhyped. Sorry not sorry. But you could say the same for many fandom proclaim "IT" girls.


    For all 4th gen groups, its just too early to tell. No one is really promoting in the US, because all are simply not ready.


    If you watch BP's debut at Coachella, they were like a supergroup. Thats because they had 3 years of experience. That is why they took off globally.


    No offence to NJ fans, but to be brutally honest, although at lollapalooza they improved quite a bit from Japan 1 month earlier in terms of engaging the crowd, it was like a bunch of high school girls jumping up and down, which is part of their charm. In 2 years time, they will be great. The same with Aespa. At Coachella last year, they were a big mess, whereas now, 1 year later they are a lot more polished and professional.

    Quote from superyeah

    These two groups were meant for two different niches. They weren’t meant to compete.


    NewJeans’ music aligns with the world’s love for UK garage at the moment. PinkPatheress popularized the genre for modern taste. The chill sound matches perfectly with the “soft” aesthetic that’s heavily romanticized these days.


    That’s why NewJeans is the more popular group. At the end of the day, it’s about the music. LE SSERAFIM always had a different creative direction; they weren’t going to make the same music as NewJeans’ anyway.

    fr its stupid comparing them. both are successful in their own rights.

    It will be almost 2 years and you are still name it Garam. I'm sure she wouldn't even be the most popular member in the group. Sakura and Chaewon would probably be overshadowed her. Now the both allrounder and pretty members getting popular in the 4th generation. Also not every group is must be the number one popular group. There's also the luck factor. Le Sserafim continues steadily, and that's what matters. I think longevity is more important in the sector.

    I think LeSserafim would be incredibly popular outside of Asia. In my opinion, I don’t think I’ve seen a girl group beat them performance wise. I didn’t like “I’m Fearless”, I really liked “AntiFragile”. When I saw the opening for “Unforgiven”, I knew I was hooked. It struck me like BTS “Fire” did. Yunjin was absolutely fire and mesmerizing. All of the girls are so talented and most importantly very different from each other. It’s easy to remember who they are individually. Now when I saw and heard “Eve, Psyche, and the Bluebeards Wife” I wanted to know what they were doing at HYBE that they weren’t introducing these girls to a much wider audience. I would have promoted the hell out of that song to the US market.


    New Jeans was an instant hit to me. I love everything about them but their personalities are a bit bland with the exception of Hyein. I feel like the group reins her in a lot because of her age. All of the LeSserafim girls are interesting. Eunchae is simply the most adorable person I’ve ever seen but every single one of them has a fantastic aura. I also love that they look healthy and not like stick people even though they are very thin.

    Edited 2 times, last by Cydney ().

  • AllKill VIP

    No. There are multiple factors to NewJeans success such as the extremely catchy songs, unconventional rollouts and music videos, etc. There's a reason why people saw them as 'refreshing' in the scene when they first debuted, and there were also more people anticipating them compared to LSFM when they were first hinted at in 2019. LSFM are really great but for the most part they are not that different from most other groups apart from the fact that SoMu cares way more about their artistic direction . Plus ADOR seems more interested in investing in stuff like playlisting compared to SoMu

    Quote from Cydney

    I think LeSserafim would be incredibly popular outside of Asia. In my opinion, I don’t think I’ve seen a girl group beat them performance wise. I didn’t like “I’m Fearless”, I really liked “AntiFragile”. When I saw the opening for “Unforgiven”, I knew I was hooked. It struck me like BTS “Fire” did. Yunjin was absolutely fire and mesmerizing. All of the girls are so talented and most importantly very different from each other. It’s easy to remember who they are individually. Now when I saw and heard “Eve, Psyche, and the Bluebeards Wife” I wanted to know what they were doing at HYBE that they weren’t introducing these girls to a much wider audience. I would have promoted the hell out of that song to the US market.


    New Jeans was an instant hit to me. I love everything about them but their personalities are a bit bland with the exception of Hyein. I feel like the group reins her in a lot because of her age. All of the LeSserafim girls are interesting. Eunchae is simply the most adorable person I’ve ever seen but every single one of them has a fantastic aura. I also love that they look healthy and not like stick people even though they are very thin.

    This comment actually confused me. What do you mean Hybe didn't introduce them to wider audience? They're being more promoted than Nj and I thought we all know that. Individual YouTube shows, mc, variety shows, Japan debut, going to have their world tour and many more. They even let Yunjin released her own songs. They also get their own brand deals like Nj. And they still until now continuely promoting EPBW on tiktok with a lot of idols.bSoumu did promoting them well, but people just didn't vibe to their songs like people do with Nj or even their previous TT, antifragile. Unforgiven is such a weak TT and EPBW didn't really enough to make them have a viral hit even with how much they promoting it. In short, this cb is very bland and I think with how low their hype for this cb compared to the last one, many people obviously agree with this. If they really want to be more popular outside of Asia, it's such a tough job to be done if they can't come up with something like Antifragile again.


    And for Nj girls, errr idk if you really watching them or even a fans because this comment obviously show that you're Fearnot. But nvm. I just very surprised someone even thought that Minji especially Hanni and Danielle personalities are bland. Their Lollapalooza concert definitely prove that. The last paragraph actually is unnecessary to add, you can proceed to uplifting Lsf without mentioning Nj personalities. That's obviously a drag lol.

    Nope. Garam was and will always be irrelevant.


    NJ won out because of MHJ. She turned NJ into a cultural reset. Source/BH didnt with LSRFM and tbh i dont think BangPD much cared, at least at first. LSRFM was specifically targeted towards Japan, Bang PD made it very clear by pursuing the three most popular Izone members in Japan outside of WY and YJ. NJ was targeted more towards the West with two truly fluent English speakers.


    But now, i do think there is real competition between Source/BH and Ador. i think both labels got a real taste of success and are hungry af. NJ has a big head start though, literally the only thing stopping them from worldwide domination is Ive in Korea. Everywhere else, they dominate.

    Man, reading you guy's analysis and theorize sounds like we're in a fkn war. Lol.


    This group is popular here, so we need to move X and capture Y, attack them when they least expected. Roll out some propaganda. Cut off their ration lines, ambush them. Put General Yunjin on the front line to deal with their ace Hanni and Dani :pepe-joy:

    Quote from Blossomin88

    This comment actually confused me. What do you mean Hybe didn't introduce them to wider audience? They're being more promoted than Nj and I thought we all know that. Individual YouTube shows, mc, variety shows, Japan debut, going to have their world tour and many more. They even let Yunjin released her own songs. They also get their own brand deals like Nj. And they still until now continuely promoting EPBW on tiktok with a lot of idols.bSoumu did promoting them well, but people just didn't vibe to their songs like people do with Nj or even their previous TT, antifragile. Unforgiven is such a weak TT and EPBW didn't really enough to make them have a viral hit even with how much they promoting it. In short, this cb is very bland and I think with how low their hype for this cb compared to the last one, many people obviously agree with this. If they really want to be more popular outside of Asia, it's such a tough job to be done if they can't come up with something like Antifragile again.


    And for Nj girls, errr idk if you really watching them or even a fans because this comment obviously show that you're Fearnot. But nvm. I just very surprised someone even thought that Minji especially Hanni and Danielle personalities are bland. Their Lollapalooza concert definitely prove that. The last paragraph actually is unnecessary to add, you can proceed to uplifting Lsf without mentioning Nj personalities. That's obviously a drag lol.

    Agreed, how they can think Hanni or Danielle have bland personalities compared to industry average is beyond me.

    Quote from Blossomin88

    This comment actually confused me. What do you mean Hybe didn't introduce them to wider audience? They're being more promoted than Nj and I thought we all know that. Individual YouTube shows, mc, variety shows, Japan debut, going to have their world tour and many more. They even let Yunjin released her own songs. They also get their own brand deals like Nj. And they still until now continuely promoting EPBW on tiktok with a lot of idols.bSoumu did promoting them well, but people just didn't vibe to their songs like people do with Nj or even their previous TT, antifragile. Unforgiven is such a weak TT and EPBW didn't really enough to make them have a viral hit even with how much they promoting it. In short, this cb is very bland and I think with how low their hype for this cb compared to the last one, many people obviously agree with this. If they really want to be more popular outside of Asia, it's such a tough job to be done if they can't come up with something like Antifragile again.


    And for Nj girls, errr idk if you really watching them or even a fans because this comment obviously show that you're Fearnot. But nvm. I just very surprised someone even thought that Minji especially Hanni and Danielle personalities are bland. Their Lollapalooza concert definitely prove that. The last paragraph actually is unnecessary to add, you can proceed to uplifting Lsf without mentioning Nj personalities. That's obviously a drag lol.

    Did I strike a nerve or something? LOL! I said what I said. I like both groups and I’ve made that perfectly clear. I STAN no one.

    Quote from BlackpinkHouse

    Nope. Garam was and will always be irrelevant.


    NJ won out because of MHJ. She turned NJ into a cultural reset. Source/BH didnt with LSRFM and tbh i dont think BangPD much cared, at least at first. LSRFM was specifically targeted towards Japan, Bang PD made it very clear by pursuing the three most popular Izone members in Japan outside of WY and YJ. NJ was targeted more towards the West with two truly fluent English speakers.


    But now, i do think there is real competition between Source/BH and Ador. i think both labels got a real taste of success and are hungry af. NJ has a big head start though, literally the only thing stopping them from worldwide domination is Ive in Korea. Everywhere else, they dominate.

    The only thing Ive dominates in Korea is Melon ULs with a non-viral song... and frankly you know, I know, #EVERYBODYKNOWS.

    Quote from YamaChwan

    Calling idols bland is not a fast way to make friends :-)


    I know I don't stan any bland idols, and I'm a fan of every member of NewJeans


    Excuse me…..I’m not one of those people that needs “internet friends” nor am I trying to be one. I stated my opinion about them because that is my opinion. Like I said, I like both groups and made an observation.

    The Garam issue consumed LS's debut which led its first song not doing well.


    And by the time the group adjusted to the 5 member style, NJ firmly held the initiative.


    ==


    aespa did have a Grand Prize (from Melon) so it was ahead of GFriend, and IVE did have a Golden Disk Grand Prize, ahead of IOI. So the competition was steeper.

    Quote from Cydney

    Excuse me…..I’m not one of those people that needs “internet friends” nor am I trying to be one. I stated my opinion about them because that is my opinion. Like I said, I like both groups and made an observation.

    Of course you aren't here to make friends clearly, but this is a public forum. Just because something you say is your opinion doesn't mean it's immune to criticism. Other people can have an opinion about YOUR opinions. That's how this works.


    No matter how much you damage control by saying you like both groups, you can't sit here acting surprised when people respond to your OPINION that specific idols are bland with a strong opinion of their own.

    Quote from YamaChwan

    Of course you aren't here to make friends clearly, but this is a public forum. Just because something you say is your opinion doesn't mean it's immune to criticism. Other people can have an opinion about YOUR opinions. That's how this works.


    No matter how much you damage control by saying you like both groups, you can't sit here acting surprised when people respond to your OPINION that specific idols are bland with a strong opinion of their own.

    I see your critical thinking skills are lacking. I don’t need to do damage control and I’m certainly not surprised that people responded to my opinion. This is a message board after all. I said I like both groups because I like both groups, but that doesn’t make either one of them perfect. And people like you are actually the problem because you think you have a right to control what other people think. In my case, you can’t, nor can you stop me from expressing my opinions with your objections.


    You are obviously one of those “group think” types that can’t stand for people to not fit into the mold of thinking exactly as you. I don’t have to like everything about anything, and I don’t like everything about anything or anyone. If there is something I like, I state it, if there is something I don’t, I state it. I’m not like you silly K-pop Stan’s that needs to be in an echo chamber. I said what I said because that’s what I think, whether YOU or anyone else on here likes it or not, so deal with it. Most of you K-pop Stan’s come off as insane with your need to act as the thought police.

    Edited 2 times, last by Cydney ().

    LOL 1
    Quote from Cydney

    I see your critical thinking skills are lacking. I don’t need to do damage control and I’m certainly not surprised that people responded to my opinion. This is a message board after all. I said I like both groups because I like both groups, but that doesn’t make either one of them perfect. And people like you are actually the problem because you think you have a right to control what other people think. In my case, you can’t, nor can you stop me from expressing my opinions with your objections.


    You are obviously one of those “group think” types that can’t stand for people to not fit into the mold of thinking exactly as you. I don’t have to like everything about anything, and I don’t like everything about anything or anyone. If there is something I like, I state it, if there is something I don’t, I state it. I’m not like you silly K-pop Stan’s that needs to be in an echo chamber. I said what I said because that’s what I think, whether YOU or anyone else on here likes it or not, so deal with it. Most of you K-pop Stan’s come off as insane with your need to act as the thought police.

    Lmao at this unhinged response. You accuse me of having low critical thinking skills, while being incapable of rational thought yourself.


    Imagine getting this sensitive and emotionally distraught because someone told you people have a right to disagree with your opinion. Love the overused wannabe psuedo intellectual terms--thought police, echo chamber; it is not that serious.


    But I laughed HARD at this ridiculous victimhood mentality, like your trash take in the face of the evil K-Pop hive mind makes you some type of martyr for free speech. That's sarcasm by the way. You're not good at identifying nuance so I thought I might need to explain that to you.


    You can have whatever opinion you want. Ain't nobody trying to gatekeep you. You're not that important. But don't get all shocked and appalled if someone responds to say how much they think your opinion sucks. It's literally that simple.


    "DiD I sTeP oN a NeRvE???" Like it's rocket science why someone may disagree with your original message, and your ignorant little tirade filled to the brim with indignant "you K-Pop Stan's" (left the incorrect grammar in for accuracy) does nothing but expose the fact you're the only one here who can't deal with it.


    I enjoyed you coming at me with that strong Internet Karen energy though :finger-heart:

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