I feel like in general a lot of Kpop fans talk over black people.

1st Official Post

    Now we can have educated talks and such but I find whenever black people step in, fans (who are non black poc or white) tend to talk over us like they know our culture. Yes if your not black you can talk about black issues, but when you start talking over us it starts to annoy me. I'm not gonna talk about CA because there's already 500 threads on it but for issues like colourism or blackface, when we show evidence that idols (who are grown adults in their 20s or 30s) have done these things people sit here and say "Oh well Korean people don't know stuff about America" I really am tired of this excuse. I'm not even gonna debunk it because I have done that too many times. I get if someone is young or whatever but I mean how much can people use excuse after excuse for racist behaviour?


    I mean when do you sit and question yourself "am I being an ally?" and I know people who grew up in places that didn't grow up with issues like how american people grow up don't know anything about stuff like this and that's fine, what's important is educating yourself, I am not going to educate you because that's not my job, I don't get paid to tweet idols the definition of cultural appropriation.


    The other thing I want to say is that black people shouldn't be afraid to talk about racism in kpop against black people, why do I feel like whenever someone posts a thread talking about racism people are up in the comments debunking, defending, joking. It's like damn can we have a normal conversation. Why do I have to be scared to post a thread like this? I mean seriously.


    Then there's the people who tell me that I am starting drama...by talking about racism... like what....


    Anyways, please stop talking over black people or anybody from any culture if you don't have a clue what your talking about, or you think you know more than someone from that culture or ethnicity. Please. :peperain::pepe-life-support:


    Anyways I already can sense with my 3rd eye someone in the comments disagreeing, but hey each to their own.

    Quote from godkingteshub

    In general when Koreans react a certain way they don't like, ifans will act like Koreans have no reason to be upset or as if Koreans don't understand their own damn language or society

    i agree. i dislike it when people outside of a culture/religion try to tell people on the inside that they have it wrong or don't know what they're talking about.

  • AllKill VIP
    • Official Post

    I think it depends on the case. Sometimes people are really trying to explain how they initially interpreted something in an innocent, harmless way until they found out it was wrong, whether it's when they learned about it on the Internet or they met a black person who taught them that it's wrong. It's not trying to justify anything. It's just to say that idols could very well be making that same mistake without meaning harm.


    I once found a Reddit comment about a black fan meeting Sik-K. Sik-k said the N-word to him in the way that means "brother," so the fan educated him not to do that. Sik-K apologized for it and I don't think he's done that since. So really, sometimes people just don't know any better.


    But if someone were to talk back to black person and claim the N-word or cultural appropriation isn't offensive, that's wrong because they have no place as a non-black person to decide what's offensive and what's not.


    Note: Sorry if I worded this weirdly or confusingly. I'm horrible at writing these days.

    That’s because most Kpop fans don’t really care about CA or about their faves offending someone from a different race/culture.

    They only pretend to care to fuel fanwars.

    thank you for preaching and saying everything i feel :pepelove:

    I've had such negative experiences on this forum when talking about stuff like this. I remember arguing with non black mods on this site who were telling me that something wasn't black cultural appropriation and to get over it. I called them anti black and told them that if they're not black then they should hush because its not their place to tell us what is and isn't offensive. Then they proceeded to delete the entire thread ;(

    Quote from yunhosupremacist

    thank you for preaching and saying everything i feel :pepelove:

    I've had such negative experiences on this forum when talking about stuff like this. I remember arguing with non black mods on this site who were telling me that something wasn't black cultural appropriation and to get over it. I called them anti black and told them that if they're not black then they should hush because its not their place to tell us what is and isn't offensive. Then they proceeded to delete the entire thread ;(

    That is so wrong... I can't believe mods can do and say stuff like that.

    GENETIC FALLACY

    is when you judge something as either good or bad on the basis of where it comes from, or from whom it came.

    This fallacy avoids the argument by shifting focus onto something's or someone's origins. It's similar to an ad hominem fallacy in that it leverages existing negative perceptions to make someone's argument look bad, without actually presenting a case for why the argument itself lacks merit.

    Quote from Alex_Murphy

    GENETIC FALLACY

    is when you judge something as either good or bad on the basis of where it comes from, or from whom it came.

    This fallacy avoids the argument by shifting focus onto something's or someone's origins. It's similar to an ad hominem fallacy in that it leverages existing negative perceptions to make someone's argument look bad, without actually presenting a case for why the argument itself lacks merit.

    please in baby words :pepewhat:

    Quote from Alex_Murphy

    GENETIC FALLACY

    is when you judge something as either good or bad on the basis of where it comes from, or from whom it came.

    This fallacy avoids the argument by shifting focus onto something's or someone's origins. It's similar to an ad hominem fallacy in that it leverages existing negative perceptions to make someone's argument look bad, without actually presenting a case for why the argument itself lacks merit.

    my brain hurts reading this.

  • AllKill VIP

    I think first of all people should learn the definition of words. Many times things were called CA even though it wouldn’t fit the description of it or like to confuse ignorance with racism...

    Secondly I learned gatekeeping opinions and being to emotional in responses made things worst. Sometimes the way you respond will determine how the person you are talking to will react.

    I for example would not admit my mistake if the one addressing it insulted me first, I might think the person probably doesn’t know what they are talking about and just wanna be edgy.


    It’s not in all cases of course.


    Last but not least, Kpop stans like to talk over everyone. Not even Koreans know their culture or know what’s good for them according to some lol

    I will link my three threads on knowledge my friends


    Thread
    Knowledge
    During my time here and on the old forums, its come to my attention that a lot of the issues surrounding certain topics boils down to knowledge. What one knows, what one doesn't know, what one ought to know etc.

    So what is knowledge: a quick google search

    facts, information, and skills acquired through experience or education; the theoretical or practical understanding of a subject.

    Why is knowledge so important here - because of the "megathreads" - most of them are on controversial subjects such…
    selfmate


    Post
    Knowledge (Part 2)
    In part one we discussed what knowledge is and what ought to be know

    Knowledge - The Lounge - allkpop forums

    I wanted to do part 2 on the consequences of a lack of knowledge but this came up in my head so I thought I'd start with this first so
    In part two we'll discuss our own lack of knowledge and later if when I have the time we'll discuss the consequences of the lack of knowledge in part 3

    There is no one that will ever achieve total knowledge and there is never someone without any knowledge at…
    selfmate


    Post
    RE: Knowledge (Part 3)
    […]

    you should give it a try it may improve your knowledge haha 8o
    selfmate

    I ain’t black but what u said is so goshdamn true


    Like when ppl be saying they’re uneducated, it’s all just fcking bullshit


    If they weren’t educated then how tf would they know about this or that, or this word or that word, or this person or that person, uneducated my ass stfu


    Ya’ll gotta stop acting like they’re the most prized possessions and admit that they did something wrong, that just goes to show what type of person you are



    “Welcome to good burger, home of the good burger, can I take your order?”

    I hate seeing that stans will deem black stans concerns regarding this as ¨opinions¨. I will no longer be taking this, you´re just better off just saying you hate black people and dont care about our feelings or history. Stans will go through mental cartwheels to defend their faves of being offensive or blatantly racist and call black stans hysterical or overreacting. Your ¨opinion¨ is very anti black. You dont get an opinion on peoples history and culture, If you think this way you´re ignorant and need to learn, or just admit you´re racist. Simple.

    Quote from 7dream0606

    no but korean ppl really dont know lmao

    korean schools dont teach ca and stuff like that

    also dont be scared to educate ignorant ppl!!!

    Heck, I didnt know about CA until kpop fans told me about it and i live in the US.

    We need ppl like you to teach us about what we're doing wrong

    No Koreans themselves said they do know of CA and saying the n word they just dont care. Plus google is free they have the fastest moving internet in the world they can take three seconds out of their day to learn. They just dont care. Theres no excuse for this kind of thing. I know its not always the idols fault but that doesnt mean we should excuse it. These companies cant expect to make it big if they cant respect different cultures

    Quote from Alex_Murphy

    Basically a genetic fallacy is a flawed reasoning (honest or dishonest) that leads you dismiss a person's argument based on the sole factor of who that person is. Therefore you don't address that person's argument which might be completely valid.

    Even though there are certain limits (blackface is obviously racism and so on), I agree with this. People try to invalidate other people‘s arguments by stating they are not black or whatever. It is true that you can never dismiss someone’s feelings towards anything because this is what they feel and think but arguments still stand and have to be disproven by different arguments. Maybe it is an American thing but in my country and in the country of family we do not have something called races. Races is furthermore a very negative term. People do not define themselves by skin color, so this might be the reason why I have a lot of problems with the skin colored centered view.

    First time I'll agree with something you post.


    People will always have differing opinions but there is always a very dismissive undertone when it comes to the subject of racism and black culture that makes it very uncomfortable.

    Quote from godkingteshub

    As a side note, they talk over Koreans too

    Ah I still remember the day when a user (who never even been to Korea) said “I know more about Korea than anyone who was ever pushed out of a Korean vagina”


    What a time to be alive!

    ｡･:*˚:✧｡  :borahae::borahae: ｡･:*˚:✧｡⋆.ೃ࿔*:･

    ✧ ೃ༄*ੈ✩

    Quote from Alex_Murphy

    GENETIC FALLACY

    is when you judge something as either good or bad on the basis of where it comes from, or from whom it came.

    This fallacy avoids the argument by shifting focus onto something's or someone's origins. It's similar to an ad hominem fallacy in that it leverages existing negative perceptions to make someone's argument look bad, without actually presenting a case for why the argument itself lacks merit.

    The origin of the person is relevant to the evaluation of someone's argument. Especially about someone else culture and what they deem offensive if we are talking about CA.

    Quote from bae_lover

    The origin of the person is relevant to the evaluation of someone's argument. Especially about someone else culture and what they deem offensive if we are talking about CA.

    While I agree with this look at the amount of people on this forum and in this thread who make bold claims about Korea and Korean culture despite never even been there OR listen when actual Koreans speak ... when will THAT talking over stop ?


    (Hint: never)

    ｡･:*˚:✧｡  :borahae::borahae: ｡･:*˚:✧｡⋆.ೃ࿔*:･

    ✧ ೃ༄*ੈ✩

    Quote from omegateatimer

    Even though there are certain limits (blackface is obviously racism and so on), I agree with this. People try to invalidate other people‘s arguments by stating they are not black or whatever. It is true that you can never dismiss someone’s feelings towards anything because this is what they feel and think but arguments still stand and have to be disproven by different arguments. Maybe it is an American thing but in my country and in the country of family we do not have something called races. Races is furthermore a very negative term. People do not define themselves by skin color, so this might be the reason why I have a lot of problems with the skin colored centered view.

    Well in almost every other country racism is alive and very much a real thing. Other people dont get a say in the argument because they dont go through the same things black people do. While yes other ethnicities do have struggles and are being targeted and hate crimed every day. Its been happening the longest with black people, plus literally every country hates black people. This isnt an open argument like which kpop idol wore whatever the best. These are peoples cultures and livelihoods which is NOT debatable. Black people shouldn't have to be explaining why your fav is being blatantly racist and getting bombarded with death threats, getting doxxed, etc. You cant disprove literal racism

    Quote from haoluvr

    Well in almost every other country racism is alive and very much a real thing. Other people dont get a say in the argument because they dont go through the same things black people do. While yes other ethnicities do have struggles and are being targeted and hate crimed every day. Its been happening the longest with black people, plus literally every country hates black people. This isnt an open argument like which kpop idol wore whatever the best. These are peoples cultures and livelihoods which is NOT debatable. Black people shouldn't have to be explaining why your fav is being blatantly racist and getting bombarded with death threats, getting doxxed, etc. You cant disprove literal racism

    I have so much to say about this. Literally using the argument that the user mentioned. I did not shield racism but there is a difference between racism and not allowing someone to wear a certain hairstyle. Also to say yeah other minorities have it hard but we, is so stupid. In my country in Europe you have more problems as a turkish or arab looking person than while being black. Also I am partially African (I consider myself as African as well and black), so I know what I am talking about. You can’t talk for every continent and country. It is very stupid to use generalizations in a very individual and complex discussion. That is why some people reject CA. People do not even get a chance to be educated. What might be racism for you, isn’t for others and the other way around. To basically blame people you will get nothing out of it. One needs to understand the person‘s views and values to educate them. That‘s why I said that the idea of race is not a thing in Europe. Here we go rather by ethnicities. People will rather experience racism due to ethnicity than due to skin color (which is a thing and that outside of america)

    Quote from omegateatimer

    I have so much to say about this. Literally using the argument that the user mentioned. I did not shield racism but there is a difference between racism and not allowing someone to wear a certain hairstyle. Also to say yeah other minorities have it hard but we, is so stupid. In my country in Europe you have more problems as a turkish or arab looking person than while being black. Also I am partially African (I consider myself as African as well and black), so I know what I am talking about. You can’t talk for every continent and country. It is very stupid to use generalizations in a very individual and complex discussion. That is why some people reject CA. People do not even get a chance to be educated. What might be racism for you, isn’t for others and the other way around. To basically blame people you will get nothing out of it. One needs to understand the person‘s views and values to educate them. That‘s why I said that the idea of race is not a thing in Europe. Here we go rather by ethnicities. People will rather experience racism due to ethnicity than due to skin color (which is a thing and that outside of america)

    I brought up other ethnicities because I knew someone was gonna be in my replies like ¨Well black ppl arent the only ones that struggle¨ like this is the oppression Olympics or something. Your country is different from a lot of other places. Theres colorism all around the world causing people to say black people are ugly or scary. You can not compare oppression or who has more problems. You do not know every black person in Europe and to say anyone has it harder isnt a point to make to just makes you sound ignorant. Racism or CA isnt a individual argument because its someone whereing your culture and profiting off of it, literally mocking you. To straight up say that its not racist it not a point to make because black people have been repeatedly mocked. Even ´til this day. I am half black and have Mexican and I live in America. The people here only see me as light skinned black person because they cant understand that mixed people exist but thats another can or worms. You cant base racism off just your country either. I wasnt generalizing its quite obvious when you look at whats going on. Black people being killed in China, the UK acts like they better than America but they´re just most silent about their racism, Russia hates everyone and everything, and we all know how racist South Korea is. I deal with this stuff everyday being told I´m ¨pretty for a black girl¨, saying my hair is nappy, asking if my hair real, touching my hair without my permission, commenting on my skin color, and saying I´m ashy. Those might not be outright racism but there racial intentions, if my hair was straight no one would touch it, if i wasnt half black no one would say Im pretty for a black girl, or comment on my skin tone. Its not that complex if you know what you´re talking about and know the experience. I dont know why every time a black person speaks on racism someone has to come and try to disprove it.

    Quote from haoluvr

    I brought up other ethnicities because I knew someone was gonna be in my replies like ¨Well black ppl arent the only ones that struggle¨ like this is the oppression Olympics or something. Your country is different from a lot of other places. Theres colorism all around the world causing people to say black people are ugly or scary. You can not compare oppression or who has more problems. You do not know every black person in Europe and to say anyone has it harder isnt a point to make to just makes you sound ignorant. Racism or CA isnt a individual argument because its someone whereing your culture and profiting off of it, literally mocking you. To straight up say that its not racist it not a point to make because black people have been repeatedly mocked. Even ´til this day. I am half black and have Mexican and I live in America. The people here only see me as light skinned black person because they cant understand that mixed people exist but thats another can or worms. You cant base racism off just your country either. I wasnt generalizing its quite obvious when you look at whats going on. Black people being killed in China, the UK acts like they better than America but they´re just most silent about their racism, Russia hates everyone and everything, and we all know how racist South Korea is. I deal with this stuff everyday being told I´m ¨pretty for a black girl¨, saying my hair is nappy, asking if my hair real, touching my hair without my permission, commenting on my skin color, and saying I´m ashy. Those might not be outright racism but there racial intentions, if my hair was straight no one would touch it, if i wasnt half black no one would say Im pretty for a black girl, or comment on my skin tone. Its not that complex if you know what you´re talking about and know the experience. I dont know why every time a black person speaks on racism someone has to come and try to disprove it.

    First where did I disprove racism? I just stated that it is not an argument to say to someone that since they are not black they can’t say their opinion.


    Also you were the one who introduced the idea that black people suffered more than others so take your own advice and stop this competition of problems.

    Also I said racism is a complexe problem that is not solved by “white people bad“ and I have my own fair share of experience including a lot of people from

    my family who traveled to a lot of countries (due to their job). I do not say that because I love racism or whatever you are intending. Stop twisting my words.

    Quote from BlackpinkHouse

    Black people like everyone are allowed to feel any which way they want. Doesnt mean everyone has to agree with their point of view. This is a forum where discussion happens. If you make a point, especially for something as serious as racism, you best be prepared to get challenged over it.

    but how can someone disagree with something they never experienced or felt?? If someone is going to say how they feel about a certain topic and you try and dismiss it or tell them they are wrong thats just ignorance and stupidity

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