why APINK is never included in the discussion for top 2nd gen girl group ?

My opinion on fact groups like Apink, Girls Day, EXID aren't on 2nd/3rd gen discussions is because they got popular years after groups like SNSD, 2NE1, KARA, Wonder Girls etc reached their peak and started to decline in popularity before groups like TWICE, MAMAMOO, Red Velvet, BLACKPINK reached theirs.

Basically, they get their glorious days in the middle of a shift of generations.

Quote from Daisy_Queen

Girls Day had a string of hits even if most of them didn't go to #1. Something was the most successful GG song from 2014, Hyeri was a huge it girl, most of the members had individual popularity etc. They were the biggest girl group in 2014 imo, only lacking in physical sales

Apink won the longevity game but Girls'Day wins based on peak easily

Mr Chu and LUV did come out in 2014.

Is not like the difference was big, both had their moments and are a tier below the top groups in the second generation.

Apink hits are more spread out, Girls day was big towards the end of their career (2012-2015)

Quote from Minazuki

My opinion on fact groups like Apink, Girls Day, EXID aren't on 2nd/3rd gen discussions is because they got popular years after groups like SNSD, 2NE1, KARA, Wonder Girls etc reached their peak and started to decline in popularity before groups like TWICE, MAMAMOO, Red Velvet, BLACKPINK reached theirs.

Basically, they get their glorious days in the middle of a shift of generations.

2014-2015 SNSD was still the top group in the industry, that is when Apink and Girls day hit their most success. up and down did come out in 2014, but I forget how long it took for it to become a hit.

You are probably right about the absence of 2NE1, KARA and Wonder Girls, by 2015, they were basically done.

Quote from BEG4DAWIN

2014-2015 SNSD was still the top group in the industry, that is when Apink and Girls day hit their most success. up and down did come out in 2014, but I forget how long it took for it to become a hit.

You are probably right about the absence of 2NE1, KARA and Wonder Girls, by 2015, they were basically done.

I think, by 2014-2015, SNSD was still #1, because there wasn't still any female group to challenge them in all metrics yet. I mean, they probably weren't the Top 1 in digitals, but they were physical and touring forces, while still being able to get a hit. What I meant is that Mr. Mr. and Lion Heart weren't among their peak eras.

Y’all never talk about Brown Eyed Girls either for some reason

Quote from KpopJop

Y’all never talk about Brown Eyed Girls either for some reason

I think because their success is more domestic. They never really took off internationally.

Quote from KpopJop

Y’all never talk about Brown Eyed Girls either for some reason

Were they ever that big apart from a couple songs?

Abracadabra was of course huge but other than that the only song that comes to mind for success they had was 6th sense. Apink, Miss A, Girls Day etc had more well known songs over more years. BEG also as a group simply were not as popular as most ggs popular ggs fo the 2G era: clearly not on the SNSD, 2ne1, Sistar etc level and hard to say they could compete with Apink, GD, Miss A etc when it comes to public, sales, cfs etc.

Quote from KpopJop

Y’all never talk about Brown Eyed Girls either for some reason

they only had a handful of popular songs

Quote from Daisy_Queen

This thread makes me wonder why Girl's Day is always excluded from these convos when they were just as big as Apink

They were not and I really love them too. Apink fandom was bigger than Girl’s Day. Girl’s Day best selling album is around 35k whereas it’s around 100k for Apink.

Even last year, Apink sold around 60k for Horn when they were a 11 years old group.

They are only behind the Big3 here.

Quote from Daisy_Queen

This thread makes me wonder why Girl's Day is always excluded from these convos when they were just as big as Apink

NO. They werent honestly

At best GSD is at AOA level and they are both not close to Apink level. (AOA sold 60k + while GSD 30k+, Apink was 100k+)

First their physical sales are way behind

Second, GSD similarly experienced their downfall relatively fast - their breakout Expectation - Girls President - Something - Darling, then go downhill. Plus, they didnt have a super popular member. Hyeri becoming popular was towards end of their reign on top.

Quote from BEG4DAWIN

Apink and Gfriend do have the most music show wins by a single song.

So you are probably right, Gfriend is a better comparison than Mamamoo

"LUV" scored 17 wins.

"Rough" had 15 wins.

Only SNSD "Lion Heart" has as many wins as them with 15 wins.

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According to my data, "너를 사랑해 (I Love You)" by S.E.S also has 17 wins, while their song "U" has 16 wins.

In addition, S.E.S's "감싸 안으며 (Show Me Your Love)" has 15 wins, as does Wonder Girls' "Tell Me".

Also, I'm only showing 14 wins for "Lion Heart".

I feel like if we're basing it off of popularity:

1. SNSD

2. 2NE1

3. KARA

4. Sistar

5. Wonder Girls

6. f(x)

7. Apink

8. T-ara

9. Miss A

10. Girl's Day

11. 4minute

12. AOA

13. EXID

14. Brown Eyed Girls

15. After School

16. Secret

17. Crayon Pop

18. Rainbow

19. Dal*Shabet

20. 9muses

SNSD obviously at the top

2NE1 were the main rivals and helped popularize Kpop inernationally.

KARA lasted 9 successful years together and pioneered Kpop in Japan.

Sistar is high on my list because they had 9 consecutive number 1s over a 6 year period, not even the top tier groups above them could do that.

Wonder Girls were maybe more trendy at their peak, but failed breaking into the US, took a 3 year hiatus, and lost 2 very popular members, that goes against them. They are legends still and even had a resurgence at the end of their career as a band so they definitely deserve top be in the top 5.

People downplay f(x)'s succes (even the f(x) fandom does to push a narrative that they're underrated) but they were huge. Almost every title track peaked at 2 or 1 on Gaon.

Apink just have that long-lasting active legacy. People were saying they'd be the next SNSD after No No No, so that was even before Mr. Chu and Luv which were massive hits. Then they found success in the 4th gen with their concept change to I'm So Sick.

T-ara had such a huge peak and could have been a rival for SNSD if it weren't for the scandal.

Miss A is another one that could have been higher. They had an incredible start though and kinda went downhill. Enough to still pump out hits, but never beating that debut peak. With better support, they could have been higher on the list.

Girl's Day were decently successful before the concept change and then also popularized the sexy concept. Each member was pretty well-known to the public as well

4minute did well for their entire career. They're interesting cause they had a peak with their debut and also towards the end of their career with Crazy. Plus HyunA had so much power.

AOA had similar popularity to Girl's Day and also popularized the sexy concept

EXID (I count 2012 groups as 2nd gen) are like one group that went viral and was able to stay successful. They didn't ever beat out their peak, but were able to comfortably promote and do well.

Brown Eyed Girls had some megahits but were popular in Korea and not so much internationally. Also they have many very long hiatuses

After School was a name people knew, and had a few pretty successful hits, but lots of lineup changes and hiatuses prevents them from being higher on the list. After losing Kahi too that was kinda the beginning of the end for them

Secret were actually quite big back in the day, They were only active for about 4 years though while these other groups are all 7 years+. I feel like they're super forgotten about too.

Crayon Pop just had their one hit. Momoland of this gen.

Rainbow almost made it and had some decent hits but never that one that made them a top group like the groups above them.

Dal*Shabet were another group that charted okay and almost got successful but never quite made it but Rainbow was more successful.

9muses are known as the underrated group of this gen. The lineup changes and hiatuses prevented them from making it. With better support they probably could have been up there with AOA or Girl's Day.

Quote from Daisy_Queen

is this a joke?

Hyeri blew up on Reply 1988 (2014), the most successful drama in history at the time then went viral again on Real Men. She was like the 2nd idol after Suzy film over 30 cfs a year. And the others were pretty popular at the time, especially Yura

This was the Forbes Power list in 2016

They didn't experience a downfall either, they just stopped releasing music. Ring My Bell and I'll Be Yours were hits too

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The dumpling incident made knetizens hate them.. Ring my bell was being heavily criticised over the swimsuit outfits and the MV, and also become their 1st song without any music show win (was against a big group unfortunately). I'll be yours honestly is no way a hit... their peak were definitely Darling after the super successful Something. All the CF comes in during that period (including the legendary Hello Bubble CF song)

I was following them closely too that time and NO, aside from hyeri none of them are really that popular.