When do you think there will be a clear cut GG victor of the 4th Gen?

    The 4th Gen has been flourishing, but there has not been a clear cut victor of this struggle.


    Last year, aespa looked like they were the front runner, only third to BTS and the person on the left of this post, but this year the whole picture has changed and there is no clear cut front runner anymore.


    Gidle, IVE, NewJeans and others are now contending for the throne.


    In the old days, acts like SNSD and Twice dominated. SNSD had beaten everyone else by early 2009 ; it can't be denied that SM retarded F(x)'s growth , so it would not interfere with SNSD, something F(x)'s fans are still bitter to this day .


    But times have changed. Hybe is running 2 girl groups (it seems the audition for a new Hybe GG is postponed for a long time), pushing neither of them and making them compete. JYP does that to Itzy and NMixx as well.(At least he appears to have given up the hare-brained idea of making NiziU promote in K-O-R-E-A.)


    Which means there is no more concentration of company efforts to make a certain act the top runner.


    But, nature abhors a vacuum, and with the absence of BTS and the aging of the person on the left of this post, the world needs a new champion.


    Given BTS had dominated for so long, it is likely that the 4th Gen would be dominated by a girl group, like the 2nd Gen dominated by SNSD and the person on the left of this post.


    The problem is, because the times had changed, there is unlikely to be a song with a universal popularity like "Gee". Also each group targets only a specific segment of fans, making a general unification quite unlikely.


    There is now a real possibility that the 4th Gen GGs, for the first time in history, might end without a dominant act, only a series of strong contenders who never really subjugated everyone else.


    which will only mean that there will be endless debates long after the 4th Gen passes about who was the dominant act.

  • AllKill VIP
  • AllKill VIP
    Quote from Ves

    When 4th gen is over. You can only see the peak in retrospect. Anything else is counting your chickens before they hatch. Not that a ton of that doesn't go on here anyway, LOL.

    That's sth I agree with


    Wait for the dust to settle and all the hype be gone. Whoever is still standing then, has won.


    I would say about their 7th year mark with contract renewals coming in.

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    Quote from Ves

    When 4th gen is over. You can only see the peak in retrospect. Anything else is counting your chickens before they hatch. Not that a ton of that doesn't go on here anyway, LOL.

    On the contrary


    By early 2010 it was clear that SNSD was the victor of the 2nd Gen, although 2NE1 gave a big scare to it.

    IU only became the leader of 2nd Gen because of her longevity.


    By 2013 EXO was the front runner of the 3rd Gen, by leaps an bounds. And by 2018 BTS had gotten over it. It was obvious to most observers.


    But now , to the naked eye, there is no front runner in the 4th Gen. Which changes the whole picture

    Quote from Lulu_Key

    That's sth I agree with


    Wait for the dust to settle and all the hype be gone. Whoever is still standing then, has won.


    I would say about their 7th year mark with contract renewals coming in.

    The trend is that those from the giants, like Red Velvet and Twice (we don't know about Blackpink yet) tend to renew since there are enough fans remaining.


    Ive and Gidle have unique members who don't really need the group so it will be an open proposition but that does not change the picture about who was dominant when.

    Quote from WhyKnock

    GoT is set up in a world close to the medieval world. It is possible for a world with no clear cut ruler to exist.

    but in kpop there will always be those that claim if certain groups don't reach no. 1 then they are considered a flop


    as an example - IVE has charted very well in their last two cb plus debut and have reached at least melon 1 for all of them??? thus if they only reach let's say top 20 or top 15 then there will be certain people who consider that a flop

  • AllKill VIP

    :pepewhat:


    You preface your post with "on the contrary" yet gave two cases that weren't to the contrary at all...


    2nd Gen: SNSD in early 2010 was "clear", but it's IU now because of her longevity.

    3rd Gen: EXO in 2013 and then it changed to BTS by 2018.


    Both show that "clear cut" is worth nothing before it's over and looked at in retrospect.


    You really need to re-read what I wrote - then what you wrote - cause you're just proving me right.

  • AllKill VIP
    Quote from selfmate

    but in kpop there will always be those that claim if certain groups don't reach no. 1 then they are considered a flop


    as an example - IVE has charted very well in their last two cb plus debut and have reached at least melon 1 for all of them??? thus if they only reach let's say top 20 or top 15 then there will be certain people who consider that a flop

    Excuse me? Even if they reach #1, they can still be flops. Believe me, I stan floptan and they've been flopping for literally YEARS. Have the internetz been lying to me?!


    :policepepe:

    Exactly what I was thinking! There are artists who can have MASSIVE hits during their time, but when you look back years later, they barely register as a relevant group. Like BAP was a strong contender when they came out, to the point that it was legit BAP vs EXO vs Busker Busker for the rookie of the year at 2012 MAMA, but TS ran them into the ground and ruined their momentum. And Busker Busker being another example of a wildly successful group that had three #1 hits back-to-back and then disbanded.

    let's be friends

    e9b8a6c6366aecb3faf71dcc6b4488775b109abb.gif

    Quote from Ves

    Excuse me? Even if they reach #1, they can still be flops. Believe me, I stan floptan and they've been flopping for literally YEARS. Have the internetz been lying to me?!


    :policepepe:

    yes yes it has!!!

    only I, selfmate - the oracle of kwangya will tell you the truth and nothing but the truth so help me god hardcoreblink

  • AllKill VIP
    Quote from centen

    Exactly what I was thinking! There are artists who can have MASSIVE hits during their time, but when you look back years later, they barely register as a relevant group. Like BAP was a strong contender when they came out, to the point that it was legit BAP vs EXO vs Busker Busker for the rookie of the year at 2012 MAMA, but TS ran them into the ground and ruined their momentum. And Busker Busker being another example of a wildly successful group that had three #1 hits back-to-back and then disbanded.

    Yep - another example- everyone was like GIDLE!!! when they debuted with Latata and had lots of follow-up hits. I mean they won a KMA for Lion, then Hwaa came out and people were all YUP, THEY'RE IT!


    And then the bully scandal came out and everyone was like, "Welp, they're done! Put a fork in it!" But guess who's eating their words now?


    Give it time folks - cause eating your words doesn't sound fun IMO.

    Oh that is easy to answer.


    Whichever 4th Gen GG that does NOT AT ALL pay any FILIAL duty to the SENIOR SINGER, totally ignores her. And more important completely ignores K-O-R-E-A-N-S, touring only outside Korea etc., absolutely avoids ballads, releases only dance music etc.,


    is the victor.


    Right WhyKnock8o


    Unfortunately it never happens, all of them eventually fall to the thralldom of the Tyrannous Senior Singer.

    Quote from lialve

    Having 1 hit is enough by kpop stans logic

    Top 4th gen group changes every year because of that :pepe-shoooketh:

    Well IVE has 3 mega hits, Gidle 2, NJ 2, Aespa 2…the list goes on

    And it’s undeniable SNSD is the GG of their generation but I don’t think if you’d asked 8 years ago people would say the same. You don’t look at a career trajectory in a single years, it takes years and who knows maybe in 2 years a group would be the dark hosted.

    Quote from catzi

    ive beats every other gg in every metric but i guess its only not certain enough that its them bc theyre not big4 lol

    It’s not certain because it’s their first year. One succesfull year does not make you a leader. I’m saying that as someone who likes Ive. With that logic Bts wouldn’t be 3rd gen leader

    Quote from killthisfenty

    Well IVE has 3 mega hits, Gidle 2, NJ 2, Aespa 2…the list goes on

    And it’s undeniable SNSD is the GG of their generation but I don’t think if you’d asked 8 years ago people would say the same. You don’t look at a career trajectory in a single years, it takes years and who knows maybe in 2 years a group would be the dark hosted.

    True but I’ve seen fans call their faves the gen leader after 1 hit to hype them up.

    Quote from centen

    Exactly what I was thinking! There are artists who can have MASSIVE hits during their time, but when you look back years later, they barely register as a relevant group. Like BAP was a strong contender when they came out, to the point that it was legit BAP vs EXO vs Busker Busker for the rookie of the year at 2012 MAMA, but TS ran them into the ground and ruined their momentum. And Busker Busker being another example of a wildly successful group that had three #1 hits back-to-back and then disbanded.

    For me, domination is something where there is no contention possible. By Growl, EXO attained that position in 2013, and although it was plagued by internal problems from 2014, it took BTS 5 years to finally overcome it so that is domination in my eyes.

    It appears paying filial duty to the 1,343 years old living fossil seems to be a rite of passage for all these new acts.


    At least the newer acts are distancing from ballads. It is always the vocals who want to sing some ballads once in a while...

    Quote from killthisfenty

    Well IVE has 3 mega hits, Gidle 2, NJ 2, Aespa 2…the list goes on

    And it’s undeniable SNSD is the GG of their generation but I don’t think if you’d asked 8 years ago people would say the same. You don’t look at a career trajectory in a single years, it takes years and who knows maybe in 2 years a group would be the dark hosted.

    https://*nehallyu.c*m/topic/187096-2012-kpop-idol-recognition-poll/

    (Change the *'s to o's)


    In 2012 the only idols people recognized were SNSD, and IU.


    SNSD was in its 6th year and IU was in her 3rd year of relevance

    Quote from WhyKnock

    It appears paying filial duty to the 1,343 years old living fossil seems to be a rite of passage for all these new acts.


    At least the newer acts are distancing from ballads. It is always the vocals who want to sing some ballads once in a while...

    Oh they will do ballad-ish songs, when they get around to releasing 5+ songs. Unavoidable.


    NJ's Hurt is a ballad. R&B


    Ive, so far has managed not to.. but they have been releasing 1 or 2 songs at time. But have been doing enough covers, including of the Tyrannous Regina IU.


    Though TTN foisted the 'ballad' singer impression on her, it seems 'Hold My Hand' and 'Blueming' are changing her signature.

    Even Hyolyn - the very persona of a dance powerhouse + belting, wants 'Hold My Hand'.


    Her longevity lies in that changing signature. Good Day --> You & I --> TTN, but now Eight/Love Poem/Blueming/Hold My Hand are competing, of the 4 only Love Poem is a clear Ballad.

    Quote from BlackpinkHouse

    Ive is the biggest musical act in Korea right now. No one can come close to their combination of consistency, longevity and peaks. Eleven is their only song that's not considered a national hit and even that song is still charting top 30 after "eleven" months. Love Dive had 28 weeks in the top 10, Afterlike had many PAKs and over 600k ULs.

    They are disqualified due to paying filial duty to the Senior Singer.

    Quote from BlackpinkHouse

    Ive is the biggest musical act in Korea right now. No one can come close to their combination of consistency, longevity and peaks. Eleven is their only song that's not considered a national hit and even that song is still charting top 30 after "eleven" months. Love Dive had 28 weeks in the top 10, Afterlike had many PAKs and over 600k ULs.

    This year Gidle is now pulling a serious challenge, and as we have seen aespa this year, who knows what IVE will do next year given that it might appear on the Kohaku in Japan.

    Quote from lialve

    It’s not certain because it’s their first year. One succesfull year does not make you a leader. I’m saying that as someone who likes Ive. With that logic Bts wouldn’t be 3rd gen leader

    yes it is certain. last year there was no doubt it was aespa but this year there is no doubt it's ive as they're leading in every metric. if next year they keep their momentum it will still be them, unless another gg manage to do better than them in every aspect and dominate like ive dominated this year.

    narcissistic, my god i love it

    JCsIq3Q.gif

    It's far too early to even compare ggs to one another. The top ggs are are still relatively new and still debuting: Aespa is 2 years old, IVE is 1 year and New Jeans is only a few months. 4G is still in its early stages, there needs to be more time for this to settle in and see who is able maintain the achievements.


    SNSD and Twice are 2 different scenarios that arent applicable yet. SNSD was very clearly the most formidable gg of the whole era and there was no one to challenge them as the top even with new ggs debuting every year. We don't see a gg like that in 4G.


    Twice started early on similar to SNSD and they could've stayed the top gg of 3G but as we all saw a lot of other ggs have managed to match or beat them in recent years, they're not the standout gg anymore. Nothing like that has happened in 4G.


    Give it another few years till some of the ggs are at least a few years older and we can compare somewhat like for like

    Quote from HardcoreBLINK

    4th gen won't have a clear #1 bg/GG due to k-pop globalization


    It's no longer just Korea/Japan/China 😌

    More because of segmentation.


    Each group only attacks a certain subset of population, so they are widely population in there but not really among others who follow their own interests.


    So it is not a struggle to become the next Emperor, more like who builds the larger structure in their own lands.

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