Is NCT the most musically ambitious group right now?

Stray Kids

I thought we weren't supposed to lump the sub-units together.

Quote from dummi

musically ambitious groups

OP is only mentioning NCT 127 songs, but then they say "NCT".

But it is a fact that even though NCT debuted in 2016 and Stray Kids in 2018, both groups have a very strong sound. No one can deny that these groups don't have something called IDENTITY. It's not news that every now and then a release comes out with a very different sound and they always try to associate the sound with NCT or Stray Kids

bad luck to anyone who thinks this is something negative and they are only associated with loud music, both have created a brand while the rest of the industry is copying or releasing more of the same.

Quote from Litto

But it is a fact that even though NCT debuted in 2016 and Stray Kids in 2018, both groups have a very strong sound. No one can deny that these groups don't have something called IDENTITY. It's not news that every now and then a release comes out with a very different sound and they always try to associate the sound with NCT or Stray Kids

bad luck to anyone who thinks this is something negative and they are only associated with loud music, both have created a brand while the rest of the industry is copying or releasing more of the same.

Yeah, even if we look at the sub-units separately, each one of them has their own music identity. Although I'd dare say NCT Dream's identity might take a turn in the upcoming comeback. We'll see if/how they'll be able to keep their youthful concept.

Quote from NEO

Although I'd dare say NCT Dream's identity might take a turn in the upcoming comeback.

i might stan Dark Dream

Yes they are.

Quote from CITY

i might stan Dark Dream

Renjun didn't get almost bald for nothing.

releasing polarizing music (not necessary good) =/= innovating

Quote from Slayurfaves

releasing polarizing music (not necessary good) =/= innovating

Thank god NCT did and do both

Quote from Slayurfaves

releasing polarizing music (not necessary good) =/= innovating

Do you know what is the concept of innovation?

Yes. Without a question.

Also, Stray Kids as well....

Quote from itiswhatitisss

in·no·va·tive

/ˈinəˌvādiv/

adjective

adjective: innovative

1. (of a product, idea, etc.) featuring new methods; advanced and original. "innovative designs"
   • (of a person) introducing new ideas; original and creative in thinking. "an innovative thinker"

yeah I know but innovative doesn't always mean good that's my point

Quote from Slayurfaves

yeah I know but innovative doesn't always mean good that's my point

Good or bad is subjective anyways so you are not making any point on this convo. The fact you felt the need to imply their music is bad or mediocre on a thread about musical ambition and innovation says a lot.

Quote from CITY

i might stan Dark Dream

That sounds dangerous.

Well people also prefer love shot over tempo they just don't have good taste

Yes, they always come with a new surprise music wise

why do ppl always forget about SHINee?

This has the potential to be an interesting discussion. I'm biased, of course, but I did find it really interesting watching the initial Sticker reaction and the subsequent recording sessions. The ambition isn't just in the styles, but also in some of the technical aspects. The Neos note that they don't think they can sing Sticker because it's too hard and joke that only Taeil can sing it.

Throughout the recording sessions, Yoo Young-jin is off camera directing them to take their voices to places they think they can't go.

This is pretty consistent in their recording sessions of the Neos thinking songs they are tasked with are hard to sing, but their producers also think they can do it.

Or here where they're using Jaehyun's deep voice to create something different

Or Haechan using the usual SM vocal flex style to the unusual sounds of Gimme Gimme

Quote from Aeicy

Well people also prefer love shot over tempo they just don't have good taste

I've found my people

i dont think nct dream is that experimental, their music is more on the safe side though??(not saying it's better or worse than being 'musically ambitious')

Quote from caratnotcarrot

i dont think nct dream is that experimental, their music is more on the safe side though??(not saying it's better or worse than being 'musically ambitious')

op didn't really mention nct dream, only nct 127.

If being ambitious means making terrible music then yes. They make terrible music as of today and are going downhill musically. You could call them a musical ambitious group when they first debuted. Now you cannot. Sticker was nothing special and was a terrible song that Nctzens Stockholm Syndromed themselves into liking. If you have to repeat a song 50 times for it to be good, is it really good? SM is giving them terrible music cause they know it'll sell because Nctzens are pathetic.

Quote from Litto

But it is a fact that even though NCT debuted in 2016 and Stray Kids in 2018, both groups have a very strong sound. No one can deny that these groups don't have something called IDENTITY.

Do you mean group identity instead of musical identity?

Quote from DMV2DMZ

Do you mean group identity instead of musical identity?

both

Them plus most of the sm artists :) figures why i like their music

Quote from Litto

both

Interesting!

They managed to make themselves stand out. Kpop is so saturated. Hundreds of groups bring out new music and most of them sound the same. NCT’s sounds work for them. They somehow made it work and is able to cater to a group of ppl. Chain and cherry bomb are some of my fav songs from them.

that would lead to the question: does polarizing song always equals to ambitious/innovative?

In the examples shown, it does work with NCT for stuff like Sticker but I just heard Chain aka the other song put in the thread but I don't see how this one fits?

Re Sticker: The flute is jarring but the structure is interesting and the chorus is nice.

The reactions to it were interesting to say the least as someone who isn't a fan nor a hater. You scroll through comments and it goes from absolute genius to awful construction music done by a 8 year old lol. I got to hear it some times later and just thought it was interesting but not necessarily something I'd listen often.

NCT tts and some of SM music in general to me can be both overrated and overhated. They have the capacity of trying "new" sounds but not everything is absolutely new, even in kpop and adding a jarring/unusual element isn't the to-go recipe to be original, although it certainly didn't stop them from being successful! And it doesn't make an entire song bad, again, Sticker was really hated too much for what it was.

Sorry for that long text lol, did that make sense?

Quote from ellenote

If being ambitious means making terrible music then yes. They make terrible music as of today and are going downhill musically. You could call them a musical ambitious group when they first debuted. Now you cannot. Sticker was nothing special and was a terrible song that Nctzens Stockholm Syndromed themselves into liking. If you have to repeat a song 50 times for it to be good, is it really good? SM is giving them terrible music cause they know it'll sell because Nctzens are pathetic.

In YOUR opinion. I liked sticker on first listen and it had sticking power for me!

Quote from Anpanromane

that would lead to the question: does polarizing song always equals to ambitious/innovative?

In the examples shown, it does work with NCT for stuff like Sticker but I just heard Chain aka the other song put in the thread but I don't see how this one fits?

Re Sticker: The flute is jarring but the structure is interesting and the chorus is nice.

The reactions to it were interesting to say the least as someone who isn't a fan nor a hater. You scroll through comments and it goes from absolute genius to awful construction music done by a 8 year old lol. I got to hear it some times later and just thought it was interesting but not necessarily something I'd listen often.

NCT tts and some of SM music in general to me can be both overrated and overhated. They have the capacity of trying "new" sounds but not everything is absolutely new, even in kpop and adding a jarring/unusual element isn't the to-go recipe to be original, although it certainly didn't stop them from being successful! And it doesn't make an entire song bad, again, Sticker was really hated too much for what it was.

Sorry for that long text lol, did that make sense?

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I’m sticking to just talking about 127, because that’s what the OP seems to be talking about.

To answer your question, no I don’t think polarizing and innovative are necessarily synonymous BUT when things are very different from the norm or the expected, people can have very strong reactions to them.

Songs like Fire Truck and Cherry Bomb may not sound as different now that the landscape has changed (you could argue that NCT helped institute this change in the sonic landscape..while other groups were experimenting, they didn’t do it consistently or with their tt or making it their point of difference but at the time, NCT 127 stood out as very different for the expectations of bg, which I realize in hindsight was the goal to make them stand out. I. didn’t like them myself at the time..and still don’t like Fire Truck, honestly, altho I fell in love with Cherry Bomb.)

Similarly, Simon Says was very sonically different in 2018 (and is still quite interesting..)

I think (to me) the interesting thing is that NCT bsides show they can do a perfectly mainstream song if they want but that’s almost never the tt.

For instance, on the Japanese release Loveholic, the tt is this:

But there’s also this on the album, which is more conventional

Even on Sticker, there’s mainstream soft

And then an all in Hitchhiker track

just one more note - Punch is also a pretty distinct and different tt altho elements of it are quite conventional (I actually don’t even like this song , which kind of gets to the point that NCT is continually experimenting but it doesn’t mean all of us NCTzens like every single thing. I loved Sticker from the first listen tho.. )

Quote from kpopnewbie32

In YOUR opinion. I liked sticker on first listen and it had sticking power for me!

Your tone seems very pointed. Praying for you.